Trying to replace Varget in 308

I've had great success with Varget with 130-168 gr bullets. It is my go to powder. I've also used 3031, 4064, 4895, TAC, and RL15. They have all shot almost identical for me. I choose Varget simply because it is the least temperature sensitive. If it isn't working for you there are plenty of other options. I've found 308 to be the easiest chambering to load for. Every powder and bullet I've tried so far has given very good results.

The loads I've chronographed average about 10-15 fps difference for each inch shorter barrel length compared to published numbers in loading manuals. There is far more difference than that between barrels of equal length. I wouldn't give the 20" barrel a 2nd thought, it could well be faster than another gun with a 22-24" barrel.
 
I'm not having a problem with Varget in this load. Just can't find any. No other loads were much success. I did get a store with 10 cans coming next week to hold me 3.
 
Wendy,

The RL15, IMR 3031,4064 are known good powders to use with the 308.

Other options would be Ramshot Big Game(again hard to come by).
The new IMR4166.
Hogdons CFE223.
Alliant AR-Comp, and Power Pro 2000 MP.

Best of luck, stay safe!!

std7mag
 
Wendy :

I have said among many others that IMR-4064 or RL-15 would be a good alternative . You how ever have said you have tried these powders and it appears they are not worth your time to use again . Assuming you've done quite a bit of testing with these other powders and found they will not give you your desired results .

My question to you is . How much testing have you really done with these other powders ? I would understand if you never got the A-Max to shoot well but I believe you have indicated the Varget and 178gr A-Max shot quite well . My thinking is if your rifle likes the A-Max bullet those other powders should produce exceptable results .

I remember you saying in one of your threads 40.5gr of IMR 4064 and 178gr A-Max shot pretty good . How much more did you explore that load ? Did you try different seating depths or maybe adjusting your action screws to a different torque . That is also A mid charge load . How far did you push that load ? 42gr or 42.5 grains . I know that's over book max but when you look at the bullets that data is for . You will see that includes the 180gr interlock RN bullet . When you look at the profile of that bullet . You can see the 180gr interlock RN bullet has quite a bit more baring surface compared to the 178gr A-Max .

I would not push the interlock RN any higher then the 41.3gr in the book but I'd not have a problem working my way up to 42gr and 42.5gr using the 178gr A-Max .

I just went and looked at my notes and I in fact have pushed that combo to 42.5gr once . It was almost 3 years ago and it appears it was around the same time I found the 40.3gr load I use now .

My notes show .
42.5gr IMR-4064
178gr A-Max
Win LR primer
Remington case
Avg 2620fps
with a 1.12moa 5 shot group .

Now I don't bother with any groups over 1 moa if I found a charge using the same components that shoots better . I did with the 40.3gr so that's likely why I never tried working with the higher charges .

Anyways my point and question is . How hard have you tried to get these other powders to work ?
 
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I load R15 in my 308. It too is a savage and it likes R15. I too stumbled on this one. I Looked at my manuals, started mid range with the Speer Grand Slam 150 grain and it clover leafed. I left it alone and. so far my step son has killed a big 10 and a couple does with it. Knocks 'em dead and it is accurate. I reckon I'm going to give him the gun. :) God Bless
 
Hey Metal, Haven't seen any posts from you in a while. Hope all is going well. I'm not against the IMR 4064 or the RL 15. They have been my go to powders for the 150-168 grain bullets. Varget I played with forever but 4064 was my best powder. I had loaded the 178 Amax with all of my powders when I had the Tikka but not much luck. I actually just picked the 2700 fps speed and matched 4064 to it which was low end and laddered up 21 rounds in 3 grain increments. Done the same with H414. I'm not beyond trying them all. The Amax are reasonable at $30.00 a 100 but I'm leaning towards a 175 to 180 in a Nosler hunting bullet. Not sure of the 175 as it seems to only come in match bullets. Reloader 15 has given me best results with lighter bullets. I just happened to have a little Varget and loaded this round up and she was a doozy. I'll buy some more when available but am leaning toward trying the IMR 4166 powder to see if less is really faster and bore actually is cleaner. I've used so many different powders I'm running out of sharpie colors to mark my loads with. I've got plenty of powders to experiment with and my next purchase is a chronograph to see what actual fps is.
 
Wendy- You will lose MV with 4166 not gain. I went from 2780 with RL-15 to 2645 with 4166, but yes-It sure does burn cleaner. I also noticed not that the recoil was more or harder, but more snappy then RL-15. I have always used RL-15 and still do, but my first tests with 4166- I can say WOW- It really held in there with no load work up at all.
 
I use IMR4064 in both my bolt and semi auto of 308 and no problems.Also both guns have the same twist also, so that helps.Also I found that IMR4064 is easy to find for all the places I been, when powder was hard to find also.I also use this same powder for both jacket and cast bullets.
 
I use a lot of RL 15 with the 178 gr bullets. Also my experience with Varget has been it seems to work best for me when it approaches max loads.
 
After some testing last week I found that in this Savage that IMR 4064 at 4 grains gives me identical groups as 4 grains of Varget did using the 178 Amax. Now I've found Varget and 4064 has disappeared. Go figure. Picked up some IMR 466 today and hopefully get to chronograph and check accuracy over a few loads. Hoping it does well as its plentiful in every store I go to. I really want it to work with 140 smk in my 260. It does best with h4350 and h414 which I am having a hard time finding now. I have one pound of each left.
 
Remember to keep checking gunbot for whatever powder you're searching for. I scored an 8# jug of Varget a short while ago. You gotta move fast when your powder shows up though.
 
Wendyj,

For my .308s, N140 seems to produce the best accuracy. It is not easy to find, but I just bought 16 lbs from Brownells/Sinclair so it is available. I use it for my 4 .308s, my .22-250, and my .223 Les Baer (with 69 and 77 grain bullets). I go through a lot of it pretty quickly.

Comparing the results from N140 with Varget, Reloader 15, H4895, IMR 4895, N150, H335, BLC(2) and N540, using 150 grain, 155, 155.5 165, 168, 175, 180, 190 and 200 grain bullets, the N140 powder seems to produce slightly better accuracy than H4895, Varget, and Reloader 15 in that order.
I started years ago using RL-15 and Varget and then switched to H4895 when it produced slightly better results. When I discovered N140, I switched to it because it produced consistently smaller groups than the other powders. I think that the smaller pellet size meters more consistently so the charges have less variation. When you're trying to put all the bullets in a group in the same hole, that makes a difference.

I would also recommend that you try the new Sierra Tipped Match King bullets (#7755, 7768 and 7775 for 155 grain, 168 grain and 175 grain).
They are at the top of my accuracy charts for 5 different .308 rifles that I have recorded data for. They shoot about 0.1 inch or more smaller groups compared the next best bullet in each rifle tested. Two of my rifles prefer 155 and 168 bullet weights, the other two like 175 bullets better. All shoot the TMKs better than anything else. With a variety of N140 powder loads, one of my Savage .308s averages 0.312 for 161 measured groups of the 168 TMKs and another one averages 0.317 for 61 measured groups . The second one also averaged 0.276 with a small sample (11 groups) with 175 TMKs. It seems to prefer 175 grain and heavier weight bullets.
 
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