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trying to find laws about notifying an officer you are carrying
- Thread starter MikeGoob
- Start date
youngunz4life
New member
yeah it gets confusing
I found this discussion and the link very informative. I travel quite a bit in Florida, Georgia, S. Carolina, N. Carolina and Tennessee. The Carolinas are "Must Inform" - I didn't know this. I frequently cross over into the Carolinas from Georgia for short distances. However, the local police patrol those borders and set speed traps pretty regularly. Fortunately, the last time I got pulled over for speeding was about 4 years ago - just over the Georgia side of the border with Tennessee.
Why is it a must show but if you don't there's no penalty.
Anytime you ask the government to give you a permit to do something, it comes with rules. Don't forget, you are asking permission to carry a gun on land that you don't own. I don't think that particular rule is a real concern - glad these states all have reciprocity.
Who knows what a legislature is thinking, but i believe the reason they removed the penalty was to level the field between drivers with a concealed handgun permit and those without a permit but carrying anyway under the "traveling" provisions (which were also changed a few years ago because a Harris County DA was ignoring the law and prosecuting people just out of spite)
zxcvbob is correct, as nearly as I can tell. Here's as much as I know about the situation.
The penalty for failing to present a CHL when asked for ID was removed from the statutes after the legislature made it legal to have a concealed handgun in the vehicle without a permit.
When they legalized handgun carry in a vehicle it meant that a CHL carrier actually had to abide by a stricter code than someone with a non-CHL since a person carrying in a vehicle without a CHL had no duty to inform and, was, therefore, obviously not subject to any penalty for failing to do so.
The legislature was going to completely remove the statute but there was resistance from DPS to removing the law entirely. The compromise was to leave the law in place but remove the penalty. I guess it doesn't make really good sense, but it makes more sense than it would have if they hadn't done anything at all.
The penalty for failing to present a CHL when asked for ID was removed from the statutes after the legislature made it legal to have a concealed handgun in the vehicle without a permit.
When they legalized handgun carry in a vehicle it meant that a CHL carrier actually had to abide by a stricter code than someone with a non-CHL since a person carrying in a vehicle without a CHL had no duty to inform and, was, therefore, obviously not subject to any penalty for failing to do so.
The legislature was going to completely remove the statute but there was resistance from DPS to removing the law entirely. The compromise was to leave the law in place but remove the penalty. I guess it doesn't make really good sense, but it makes more sense than it would have if they hadn't done anything at all.
StreetKnight
Inactive
Concealed Carry Rules
As a law enforcement officer I can tell you that each state has its own rules concerning concealed carry, but there is one rule they all have in common.
During any traffic stop if anyone in the stopped vehicle is armed, or has a handgun in a suitcase or carry bag, and holds a Concealed Carry Permit, that person is required to inform the officer of his possession even if the permit holder is only a passenger. Failure to do so can result in arrest and citing of the permit holder and revocation of the CCL. This means that a permit holder is required to inform the driver that he or she is carrying so the driver can tell the officer during the stop, or the permit holder must present his license to the driver to be handed to the officer at the time the driver presents his driver's license to the officer.
I can also tell you, as an officer, that if I stop you and ask you if there are any guns in the vehicle and the driver tells me no, and then I find one, everyone is going into cuffs. A permit holder is not required to produce his permit if there is no firearm present.
As a law enforcement officer I can tell you that each state has its own rules concerning concealed carry, but there is one rule they all have in common.
During any traffic stop if anyone in the stopped vehicle is armed, or has a handgun in a suitcase or carry bag, and holds a Concealed Carry Permit, that person is required to inform the officer of his possession even if the permit holder is only a passenger. Failure to do so can result in arrest and citing of the permit holder and revocation of the CCL. This means that a permit holder is required to inform the driver that he or she is carrying so the driver can tell the officer during the stop, or the permit holder must present his license to the driver to be handed to the officer at the time the driver presents his driver's license to the officer.
I can also tell you, as an officer, that if I stop you and ask you if there are any guns in the vehicle and the driver tells me no, and then I find one, everyone is going into cuffs. A permit holder is not required to produce his permit if there is no firearm present.
(Putting this as kindly as I can to the new guy) You haven't been paying attention, have you? You did get the "every state is different" part right. Pretty much everything else you said was wrong, to varying degrees. Please check with your supervisor or the district attorney's office and find out what the laws really are in your jurisdiction.
You bring up a good point tho' about an armed *passenger* in a vehicle. In a state with no duty to inform, I think it's best to keep one's mouth shut unless instructed to get out of the car -- or if there's any other reason the officer might find the gun. (that's not a good thing to surprise a cop with, even if it's securely in a holster) OTOH, why complicate the traffic stop unnecessarily?
In states with a duty to inform, I don't know how that affects passengers. I try to stay out of those states.
You bring up a good point tho' about an armed *passenger* in a vehicle. In a state with no duty to inform, I think it's best to keep one's mouth shut unless instructed to get out of the car -- or if there's any other reason the officer might find the gun. (that's not a good thing to surprise a cop with, even if it's securely in a holster) OTOH, why complicate the traffic stop unnecessarily?
In states with a duty to inform, I don't know how that affects passengers. I try to stay out of those states.
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youngunz4life
New member
one thing is, don't lie if asked. that is a big one and should be(in my opinion)
I think its a courtesy/common sense thing, surprises during a traffic stop are something to be avoided. Back before the CHL days we knew folks were carrying but in most cases if they weren't causing problems we didn't want to know about it. I knew several upstanding citizens who carried on a regular basis. Last I heard the travelling provision was a defense to prosecution and a poor excuse for not getting a license. I got my CHL while still a peace officer and learned more about carry laws in CHL class than most cops did @ the time.
gotthegoods
New member
In TN we are not required to notify, but our DL and HCP numbers are the same, so a TN LEO running a TN DL will know about the HCP.
It is accepted as common courtesy to offer our HCP with the DL in the event of a traffic stop.
It is accepted as common courtesy to offer our HCP with the DL in the event of a traffic stop.
There have been several changes in TX handgun laws in the last few legislative sessions. Basically it is no longer an offense to carry a handgun in a vehicle as long as it is concealed and subject to a few other very reasonable restrictions that will be automatically satisfied by any law-abiding citizen.Last I heard the travelling provision was a defense to prosecution and a poor excuse for not getting a license.
Thanks for the update, John. I'm guessing it was part of the castle doctrine that I'm not up to speed on. Travelling was never properly defined in the Texas Penal Code in my day but was generally held to mean "travelling from one county, through another, to a third county with the intention of staying overnight," or so we were taught. Another little-known defense was carrying large sums of money, saw one ill-advised arrest tossed for that reason.
I still think the castle doctrine or travelling exception is a poor substitute for the training offered in any well-taught CHL class.
I still think the castle doctrine or travelling exception is a poor substitute for the training offered in any well-taught CHL class.
Correct. Unfortunately, in the absence of an official definition, judges could choose their own definitions.Travelling was never properly defined in the Texas Penal Code in my day but was generally held to mean "travelling from one county, through another, to a third county with the intention of staying overnight," or so we were taught.
The legislature first attempted to patch the problems with old law by saying that a person in a vehicle was "presumed to be travelling" which placed the burden of proof on the state to demonstrate that the person was not travelling. Several DAs in large TX cities banded together and basically made it public that they would instruct officers in their area to question any person stopped for traffic violations in such a way that the person would be likely to destroy the presumption of travelling with his answer. The legislature didn't take kindly to the DAs attempt to nullify their hard work and, in the next legislative session, passed a law that is "DA proof".
I like the fact that having a handgun in the car without a CHL is no longer an offense, however I agree that a CHL class has a lot of good information in it. On more than one occasion I've advised people who have no intention of ever possessing a gun outside their own home to take the deadly force section of a TX CHL class just so they'll know the self-defense laws of their state....poor substitute for the training offered in any well-taught CHL class.