Trying to Build a Custom Rifle - Help with Smiths, etc

3

300magman

New member
I've been planning some kind of custom, switch barrel rifle for some time now but finances have fallen short of the custom action, big name smith build that I was thinking of, and its associated $5K price tag.

So what I am trying to put together now is something more economical, and I could use some advice on finding a decent but budget friendly smith who could accurize a factory action of some sort (probably remington...but I'm open to suggestions) and chamber, install, and index a couple of barrels.


btw, I do know that a lot of people use savage actions and install/headspace barrels themselves...but back when I was talking about a big budget build a smith ran me through the pros and cons of a savage vs "rem style" action for a switch barrel project and now I am not too hot on savages for my build.


Last question -> This probably isn't worth asking, but are old military actions worth building off of? I can get my hands on old P17 or Mosin Nagant actions in good shape, for next to nothing if they are worth using.
 
The only 1917 Remington Enfield actions (NO SUCH THING AS A P17) are big bulky and strong as an Ox on roids.

The problem is your not going to save any money by using that action. If it is a military action you are going to have A LOT and I mean A LOT of machine work to get it right. That costs money lots of money.

you could build off a savage action. But, I have priced 5 different builds and they all ended up right at $3k to get them right.
 
Smiths like Remington actions because they can charge you for "blueprinting" the action, truing the bolt face, squaring the lug recesses, etc.

They can't do that for a Savage, the floating bolt head eliminates the need for a custom blueprint job.

And Savage actions generally produce very good shooters, and are much easier to create a switch barrel rifle out of. Get the barrel nut wrench and headspace guages and you can swap out a barrel right quick.

Jimro
 
I would also have no problem using a Savage action for a long range rifle. A quick search here will give you plenty of success stories.

However, if I was in your place and wanting to have a smith put something together, I would send an action to Douglas Barrels or Lilja. If I remember correctly, you are looking at about $300 for the barrel and about $400 for them to install the barrel, bluepring the action, change the factory lug, etc. Both have excellent reputations.

You could buy a good aftermarket stock and you will have an excellent rifle for about $1500.
 
The advantage of the Savage action is it's much easier to switch barrels yourself, The Remington actions are great when set up and have produced many competition winning builds over the years, but to the best of my knowledge a barrel swap requires a press. The Mossberg 100 ATR may be a viable option they are proving quite accurate prior to smithing sell for under $400 and are an easy barrel swap.
 
You can make switch barrel remingtons as well. They are even easier to switch than a Savage.

On a switch barrel remington you need a barrel vice and an action wrench. You don't need go no go gauges or anything like that. You unscrew one barrel and screw on the other and your ready to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUV5Og5BtiA

Price to build on a savage action. This is doing it yourself with no smithing fees.

Action $484
Barrel $450
Stock $350
Finishing supplies $150
Base $150
Rings $160
Scope $1930

Total $3674
 
First, it would help to know what kind of rifle you want to build in the first place. Are you looking for a custom light weight hunting rifle, tactical build, or bench rest rifle? Do you want a synthetic, laminate, or traditional wood stock?

Second, working with military actions is far more expensive than most others out there. If either of the rifles you speak of is unmodified, regardless of how good of a deal they are I’d pass on them. The 1917 would be a good candidate if you are looking to build a big bore hunting rifle for dangerous game, but it is heavy.

Third, is there a factory rifle close to what you want being produced? I’ll bet you can come close to what you want by purchasing a factory rifle. With a custom you are paying for the little details that aren’t cost effective for a manufacturer to produce.

Remington is probably your best bet for a tactical or bench rest build in a commercial action. If you want a hunting rifle then you can use just about any commercial action. Remington’s will be the lightest, but you can pick up a used commercial Mauser 98, Winchester M70, or any others to build a fine semi-custom hunting rifle. I'd shy away from the Mossberg action as I don't know too many Smiths that would stake their earned reputations on building you a rifle using one nor should they. Same goes for barrels, don't buy a cheap barrel and expect the Smith to back his work.

As to Savage rifles you can build a rifle yourself for much less than CPTMurdoc30 just stated. I have two Savage build rifles one in 6X47 and .243 Win 1:7 twist that cost far less than the prices he just threw out there. The barrel and stock will probably be your most expensive investment with a Savage. You can pick up a used Savage for a donor starting around $250.

As far as not having to blueprint a Savage action I don't buy that, the floating bolt head is great but it doesn't fix everything that could be wrong with a commercial action. If I were to build a true custom on a Savage action I would still try to square up the receiver, threads, and recoil lug. Yes the floating bolt head helps with accuracy but I would still lap the lugs and square the bolt face as well. You'll want everything as square as possible and in line with the bore if you want the most accuracy you can get. So don't look at blueprinting an action as something unnecessary and it is usually one of the cheaper costs in building a custom.
 
You can get 98 Mauser actions (Shotgun News) for less then 100 bucks. I've seen some dern good rifles made on mauser actions.

Lap the lugs, true up the front and you still don't have much money involved. You can get good accurate barrels for under $200, and good stocks from Boyds.

I think you can make a damn good accurate rifle for under $1000.

The rifle pictured below I built for about $250 and shot some damn good 1000 yard matches with it.

I don't buy the ideal you need to spend thousands of dollars to build a good accurate rifle. I'd rather see the money spent on ammo. That's where you'll learn to shoot.

I've seen a lot of sub minute rifles posted on this and other forums, but I've seen few clean 1000 yard targets (a 2 moa rifle will clean the 1000 yard target).

1000%20yd%20Rifle.jpg
 
Sorry But, I didn't throw any prices out there.

Action was from Buds gunshop. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/976/products_id/411540373

Barrel http://www.shilen.com/savageBarrels.html

Stock Thumb-hole benchrest. http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/

Finishing supplies $150, sandpaper, 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, Filler and clear coat and other needed items.

Base $150 http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/43...10-series-short-action-round-rear-steel-matte

Rings $160 http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/27...-style-30mm-maximized-rings-matte-medium-high

Scope $1930 http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightforce-nxs-5-5-22x50-zerostop-rifle-scope.html

Why are you going to go through the expense of building a semicustom rifle to use nothing but cheap parts.

You are going to pay $350+ for a remington action or rifle. Then pay $400 to $500 to get it machined to where it is half way decent. When you can go get a Custom action for $800 or so dollars. Just doesn't make sense to me to go that route. It is one thing if you have the rifle and want to rebarrel which I am planning on doing to my VLS and get a Kreiger SS match grade barrel put on it and have it blue printed.

If you want a round action like a Remington why not save time and money and buy an Atlas from Kelbly. Kelbly makes some of the best actions out there. http://www.kelbly.com/actions.html

With the Atlas action you get a much better action to begin with it has more metal in it it has a better port design and is machined right the first time.
 
I didn't say your prices were off base or thrown out there. I just said that you can build a Savage rifle for far less than you quoted. Plus since we don't know the type of rifle the OP is wanting to build it is hard to say what the total cost of the build would be.

My .243 Win cost something like this.

Stevens 200 center feed rifle in .243 Win used pawn shop find $200.
Sharp Shooter Supply (SSS) competition trigger $97.
SSS tactical bolt handle black tactical $47.
SSS competition recoil lug $28.
Used Savage 12FV synthetic stock from Savage Shooters Forum $60.
26" 1:7 twist Heavy Varmint taper barrel from Savage-Barrels.com $250.
EGW 20 MOA base $40.
Lepould QRW rings $50
Weaver Tactical Grand Slam 3-10X40 $300
Wheeler Engineering barrel nut wrench $24
Wheeler Engineering action wrench $56
Go/No-go gauges rented from 4-D $8.

I sold the barrel, bolt handle,recoil lug, trigger, and stock for $100.

So the total cost of my build was around $1030 after you subtract the parts I sold.
 
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As far as not having to blueprint a Savage action I don't buy that, the floating bolt head is great but it doesn't fix everything that could be wrong with a commercial action. If I were to build a true custom on a Savage action I would still try to square up the receiver, threads, and recoil lug. Yes the floating bolt head helps with accuracy but I would still lap the lugs and square the bolt face as well. You'll want everything as square as possible and in line with the bore if you want the most accuracy you can get. So don't look at blueprinting an action as something unnecessary and it is usually one of the cheaper costs in building a custom.
Click to expand...

If you don't buy that then that is ok. Spending a little extra to ensure surfaces are machined true doesn't hurt. I have never felt the need to blueprint a Savage action though as accuracy has been superb as issued.

Jimro
 
I don't blueprint my Savage actions either when I build a rifle. However, if I were to pay a gunsmith to bulid a rifle for me and I chose a Savage action I would have it done. Besides what smith in his right mind would turn loose a rifle they hadn't done everything possible to ensure accuracy. There is a difference between being a hobbist and building rifles for a living.
 
Ok, I mentioned the military actions only on the off chance something could be done with them, since I see a few rifles floating around for $100 that aren't in terrible shape.

As far as used savages or remingtons however, I never see them any cheaper than 20-25% off of new rifle prices and that is regardless of how deplorable thier condition is. (probably just the part of the world that I am in, low gun sales volumes around here and very very few local shops) So for the same money I can just buy a new action.
Savage $335 base model $435 repeater target action
Remington $365 blued short action to...sky is the limit based on options



Several people asked what kind of rifle I was looking to build, so I guess I can best describe it as a target/hunter. I was planning on using a verticle grip stock with a fairly wide flat forend (call it tactical if you must)

Bell & Carlson Medalist A2 non adjustable ($260 with custom length of pull) is about the cheapest that I can find...but if budget allowed I would use a mcmillan or a manners.

The idea is to use one medium length/weight barrel for hunting and a second long heavy barrel for some F-class shooting.

What turned me off the savage was hearing that they were less forgiving of high pressure loads (overloads), the fact that they still need a time/tune and possible trueing, and the need for go/no go guages to "TRY" to get the barrel headspaced EXACTLY the same each time you install or uninstall one.
 
I think you would be better off building a your rifle if you just keep one barrel on it. Something like a #5 or 6 heavy magnum contour barrel 26" long. Since you mentioned short actons I'd probably run a .260 or 6.5 Creedmore with a 1:8 or 8.5 twist rate to run long bullets.

That way you don't have to swap barrels and worry about switiching barrels and getting proper headspace. Plus switch barrels are more expensive to build, and since money is a factor for you. You'll only have to invest in one barrel and the gunsmith work to fit it to your rilfe.
 
300magman,
As to the cost on a switch barrel on a Rem action only extra cost is getting a new recoil lug that you can pin plus barrel vise/action wrench. Gunsmith might give you a break on two barrels as long as there the same contour and squaring an action is a one time cost same with bedding.

I have all my mag caliber headspace on the shoulders and you can do that with a standard case and a gunsmith can show you how to do that.

Problem your going to have using two different contour barrels is bedding and having a nice balance rifle. If you get on the BR site lot of good short action calibers used in F-Class.

Well good luck
 
Rifle

2500.00 or less get a Savage like this http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/finder/ a Weaver 20 moa base for $40.00 from SWFA a WOTAC scope 4x14/50mm from Matt 80 moa vertical travel 40 side to side. I have pretty much same reasons you gave for not getting a custom now this rifle or at least mine will shoot clover leafs with Hornady Superpreformence 225 gr SST 5/8 with Remington 250gr BTHP and working
on a Lapua 300 gr load so far 3/4 inch but have had some better so just some final messing to go. All these groups have been at 250 and 300 yards if I do my part. I have just over $1500.00 in this with bipod heck it isn't a 5 grand custom nor will it ever be but hell it works for me and I have more left over for ammo and gas to hit the range. In fact this winter I and my shooting friends will be shooting 1760 yards and farther this winter.
 
Whats your desired budget? What kind of shooting, what class of optics? You could always get a cheap remington and get it worked on over the years. Or just get a savage although i'm not a fan of savage. Not doubting their accuracy i just dislike the action.

That or get a base custom rifle, start off with some decent optics that will last you then again upgrade as you go along.

http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2011-custom-rifles/ga-precision-base-custom-rifle.html

Need more details really.
 
I am actually covered on the optics front, I've got a good scope just waiting for a rifle. And I just wanted to explain that one barrel will not work because I will be using the most powerful cartridge that I can work into the build for hunting elk, mooose, black bear and I will want a much smaller, more barrel friendly cartridge for target shooting.



I have been looking around barrel shops, thinking that it might be best to just send them a remington action and have them true it and install the barrels, but it seems the cost of thier labor is much more than I had previously thought. Some are charging in excess of $500 to chamber and install a barrel blank...with the barrel being $300 to start with (without $150 fluting!) that makes each barrel close to $800 from some of the bigger name makers.


What I need to find is a competent smith who can do the action trueing, chambering and installation work for considerably less.
Any suggestions?
 
http://laneyscustomrifles.com/default.aspx

I used to live in the area and he had a pretty good reputation. He sent a rifle to snipercentral.com for a review, but I didn't find the review right away on their website. He charges $325, not sure if that's low enough for you, but I doubt you will find much lower unless you find a hobbyist that will do it for you.
 
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And I just wanted to explain that one barrel will not work because I will be using the most powerful cartridge that I can work into the build for hunting elk, mooose, black bear and I will want a much smaller, more barrel friendly cartridge for target shooting.
Click to expand...

.260 Remington will handle all of the above mentioned game so will the .308 Win. .338 Fed or .358 Win is about as much punch as you can pack in a short action with the same bolt face and will not offer a huge advantage over the .260 or .308. You'll need to step up to a WSM to get better performance and without going to a rifle like Savage with a replacable bolt head, you are talking about another bolt for the same action just for a conversion to a more powerful cartridge. So for a Rem 700 you'll be talking about another $300 for an extra bolt just to run a cartrige with a different bolt face. Not to mention there might be feeding issues if you try and use the same magazine and follower for the two different cartridges.

IMO you'll be able to build a rifle more like you want and in your price range, and it will cover both basis you want to use it for if you pick one chambering and stick too it. Or the other option I'd do is build your custom target rifle and go pick up a new off the shelf hunting rifle in your choice of chambering suitable for moose, elk and black bear. Takedown or switch barrel rifles are very cool, but they do come with a price and it is usually higher than what you'll expect.

Check out Kevin Weaver, Rich Reiley, or Gre'-Tan Rifles LLC. Remember you often get what you pay for, check the refrences of any gunsmith you use before you ever have them build you a custom rifle. If the gunsmith will not supply refrences for you to talk to don't use them. If they are new to the business and don't have refrences ask them where they got their experience gunsmithing and see if you can contact the Smith they apprenticed with or the trade school instructors.
 
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