Trusting the untested gun

R

riggins_83

New member
I had a customer yesterday with a Taurus TCP he's never fired and has been carrying for 3 months without a round in the chamber. Said he tried to shoot it for the first time a few days ago and the gun failed to go into battery each shot (including loading the first cartridge).

I've had customers who carry yet are afraid to shoot and have never fired the gun they carry, customers carry a firearm loaded with a make/model of cartridges they've never function tested in the gun, etc.

Lastly I've had many customers who don't train enough to burn in the muscle memory of their guns sight picture and struggle to their target under rapid fire even at short range.

Every time I sell a firearm to somebody for the purposes of concealed carry who's new to the concept I explain the concept of muscle memory and trigger control as well as training for both.

Other than function testing a firearm how dedicated are people to muscle memory with their carry guns? I put a snap cap in the chamber with an unloaded magazine and practice drawing and having a good sight picture of my target with my eyes closed. I often do the same however spin 360 with my eyes closed first too.
 
rude awakening is the term that best describes this scenario. I've had many guns that didn't turn out how I wanted. I do not carry any that I haven't fired & trust.
 
Most don't take the time to practice dry.
As for carrying an untested gun, I worked with a fellow cop years ago who, back when there was a grace period between being hired & getting a slot in the academy, bought a shiny new Smith revolver and carried it unfired on the job in uniform for several months before he did get his academy slot.

First day on the academy range, gun would not fire. He said later in telling the story his knees got a little wobbly, realizing what could have happened on the street. :)
"Hey! Whod'a thunk a gunmaker would make a gun that didn't work?"
Well.....

Many non-gun people who get permits & guns really have no committment to following up & figure just having the gun along will be enough.
The muscle memory issue is one of the primary reasons against regularly swapping out carry guns "in rotation", as far as I'm concerned.
Denis
 
I occasionaly carry my BBQ gun concealed that I have never fired. A stainless Ruger Montado with custom grips in my simply rugged pancake. Too purty to shoot. I have carried my stainless bird head vaquero with 3 3/4 bbl too which I have shot. I have no worries they won't work. I carry different guns different days.
 
I've had customers who carry yet are afraid to shoot and have never fired the gun they carry,
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I can't understand it, myself. The first thing I want to do with a new acquisition is take it out and run at least one box of ammo through it.
 
I know a few people just like you described. They buy guns all the time and never or hardly ever shoot them then insist that they are prepared to defend themselves.

I ended up with a P229 this way several years ago. A buddy bought the gun and carried it for about 3 yrs and it had only been fired maybe 30 rds. It had marks on the surface from being handled and holstered but there were only slight marks on the barrel and slide from cycling. It was brand new basically.

For me a Semi-auto must run 1000 rounds trouble free before I trust it for anything. After that I run about 200 rds of my HD ammo through it THEN I'm comfortable. Revolvers are a different story. If It runs 200 rds of my HD ammo without a problem I'm satisfied it will run fine when needed.

Never rely on or carry an untested gun
 
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I don't understand having a gun I won't fire ...let alone a carry gun.../ so I don't get it either...

But it seems like when I stop in at a gun store ...bsing with guys / often, it comes up how often do they shoot...( and a lot of guys / its only 2 or 3 times a year ). Ammo is expensive - time is hard to come by for family guys ..so I sort of understand it ...but still its a little scary.

I go to the range often...at least once a week / often twice a week...because I just flat like it ! ...and I don't go unless I have a plan and 4 boxes of ammo at least. But most important is a "plan" on what I'm working on. Drawing a gun ...double taps under 4 sec ../ reloads...or whatever. But developing that muscle memory is a valid issue /even for us older guys that have been doing this awhile...
 
I ran across a guy in a gun store who basically hangs out at the gun store, handles guns and talks with the clerks about guns. Maybe once a year he buys a pistol, but he buys almost no ammo, and he never rents range time.

There are some people who love talking about guns and they occasionally buy one but they seldom shoot any.

Their pleasure in life is looking at guns, discussing guns, and maybe just having them.

I knew a guy who painted hunting scenes. He'd paint ducks and pheasant, retrievers, Irish Setters, or a picture of a break-open shotgun resting up against a log, stuff like that. He never hunted in his life, never even shot a shotgun.

He just liked painting that stuff.
 
Ooops I almost forgot...

Is this a Taurus bashing thread?

I never used to say this but now I've made it obligatory for myself to mention that I had a friend who had a Taurus and the cylinder fell out...
 
That happened to my old mans Taurus 30 yrs ago... Something was wrong and it blew the cylinder open and it fell off the gun.
 
Not really about Taurus...which I have owned.

I don't trust any firearm for SD that I have not thoroughly tested on the range.....period.

Why? I have seen about every brand you can mention fail at one time or another. There are no sacred brands. If a firearm works for several hundred rounds then you are reasonably safe to assume it's reliable. Otherwise don't depend on it for SD.
 
For me a Semi-auto must run 1000 rounds trouble free before I trust it for anything. After that I run about 200 rds of my HD ammo through it THEN I'm comfortable.
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Everyone has their own system, and I agree with the above in theory.

In practice, however, the above would equate to $300 ($30 per 100, for WWB .45) in target ammo plus an additional $200 ($20 per 20 of Hornady Critical Defense .45), bringing my $350 carry gun to a grand total of $850+

My personal testing is that I give the gun 50-100 rounds straight out of the box and forgive any hiccups. Then I clean and lube, and give it another 100. If all goes well, I do 1 full box of HD ammo. If all goes well there, I clean it and carry it.

Alot of people who start carrying aren't "gun people" & don't know that factories make mistakes sometimes.
 
Snap caps really don't tell me if the gun works or not, because you don't know if the firing pin works. The best way to tell is a pencil, with rubber end in, if the pencil shoots out then the gun fires.
 
I could not even think about carrying a pistol CCW that I have not fired enough to be comfortable with and have confidence in. I just can not see the mind set that it would take to buy load and carry without at lest taking it out and making sure it goes bang and the bullet goes downrange some where.
 
Not too surprised at people trusting an unbroken-in gun. I personally wouldn't even trust a revolver for SD/HD w/o firing a couple of boxes through it. A semi-auto....about 500 rounds through it...
 
i agree that carrying an untested gun is just plain stupid.

I disagree with the level of training. If a person can comfortably, safely, and competently handle a handgun, that is the minimum level of training. A tested gun, and a person who can at least reliably shoot a torso target at 10-20 feet. Please remember, this is SD, not police or swat usage.

It is not necessary to practice with the lcp an hour every week, until all rounds go into a 5 inch circle at 50 feet in 3 seconds. Can you get the gun out of the pocket, on target, and deliver a couple rounds center mass when you are held up?

I believe in getting safety and handling training. it is mandatory.

I believe in training up to the 1/10,000 risk. A street mugging, an atm robbery, carjacking, crazy armed ex husband, so forth. Is it necessary or even logical that the guy who delivers newspapers at 5 am should train to the level of an antiterrorist commando? no.

Draw, aim, fire, repeat. That can be achieved with a minimum of effort and expense, and it can resolve most of the times that deadly force is called for, unless you've already lost the scenario before you even draw.

Being able to survive the 1-5% of gun encounters that the minimally trained individual would lose requires far more than just a few afternoons.

There is not enough lead in this planet for everyone who owns a handgun to reach the proficiency that most of us here have, and there are not enough hours in the day to train them.

(I know, we need to recycle more.)
 
All my carry guns have had at least 200 rounds of their expected carry fodder run through them flawlessly before I will carry them. Then the carry ammo is first downrange on subsequent range trips, and thus rotated.
 
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