Trouble setting up Dillon XL650 in 9mm

R

RugerSteve

New member
I just bought a Dillon XL650, and having the worst time setting up all the dies for some reason. My other press is a Lee Pro 1000, and I never had this much trouble setting it up. I know....everyone is going to say it's a matter of tweeking, and I agree, but doesn't matter whether I adjust one way or another, it just doesn't seem to work out.
Here is my setup: st#1 (had Lee resize/decap), but bent pin) so now a Hornaday New Dimension resize/decap, die, St#2:-powder drop, St#3-Dillon powder check, St#4-Hornaday bullet feeder die, St#5-RCBS bullet seat/crimp die.
I had trouble with several shells not being deprimed, and checked die, and pin did no longer stuck out like it had. Tried re-adjusting pin, and could not get die apart to adjust. Finally did, and found that the thread
on the cap for pin adjustment to be scored up and pin was bent, so I went out and bought a new set of Hornaday "New Dimention"dies at Cabelas. After changing out there were still several pieces of brass that seemed to have shoved that pin up into the die, and did not decap them, and had to reset that one also.
Next is St#2, powder drop funnel. Doesn't seem to matter which way on that die adjustment that I go, whether it works or not.. I adjusted the bell enough for a bullet to sit on top of the casing by the bullet feeder die, but to me, it seems a little extreme on the expanding . If I back it off so it doesn't feel so extreme of a bell, a bullet will not sit in the casing.
On to St#4- Hornaday bullet feeder die. I am not going to use a bullet feeder machine, just the plastic tube. Will hold probably hold about 23 or so bullets at a time. Set up according to Hornaday phone customer support, and does't seem to feed a bullet consistently every time . Not sure whether the belling has any effect on that or not.
And finally St#5- I have an RCSB seat/crimp die in that station. Since I bought the new Hornaday dies I figured that I may as well use another one of that set. The RCSB is also new. I had the RCSB set up and perfect seat and crimp, but see that the Hornaday has I guess you would call it a floating bullet alignment piece that hangs down from the die.. I setup the bullet length and crimp, but will not set down in a bullet gauge if I check the barrel clearance.
I love this machine, but want to get it working ASA.
New toy and not working yet.
 
Go back thru all the setup procedures in the manual ....and solve one at a time.

The depriming issue in station 1 is a die problem / not a press problem. But I will say that in over 40 yrs of reloading, I've never broken a primer punch on a die....so one thing you did not mention is whether you are using any case lube....carbide dies or not ....use case lube ( I like Dillon's spray lube )...lay the cases flat in a cardboard box ....and spritz them with the lube, roll them around a little ..spritz them lightly a 2nd time ....and let them dry for about 15 min.../ then put them in the case feeder. No matter what ...the lube will make your press run a lot smoother.

belling a case....it has to be belled enough so the bullet will sit in the case in station 4. It may seem like too much ...but too little is not good. But be patient and adjust it correctly....

If your case gague is telling you - the round will not drop into the case gague...then your final crimp die needs to be adjusted so the finished cartridges will drop in and out of a case gage easily.../ no mystery there...trust the case gague. ( clean the case gague - Q tip and a little solvent is all you need.

Station 2...the powder adjustment ...go back to your manual / adjustments should be easy ...( make sure the die is tight, the safety rod is adjusted properly, etc ....its not rocket science....just one step at a time...) be patient.
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I'd also suggest you read the directions on the press...all the way thru / don't jump from one spot to the other....read and digest it / its a technical manual - go thru it carefully ...and really understand what the press is doing in each stage....and then take on one issue at a time. Then check it ...and go on to another station.

I'd probably switch everything to a new set of Dillon dies as well...and start fresh. Clean - and inspect your dies -- if you haven't already done that ... You didn't say if you bought the press new or used...it shouldn't matter ...but call Dillon on Monday, if you still have questions. If its used....previous owner may have bubba'd something - so check it carefully against the manual. If you don't have a current manual ...get one off the Dillon website...you cannot set a 650 up properly without a manual...
 
The press is brand new, and so are all the dies. If I buy all new Dillon dies, I would be stuck with all the other new dies. No, I do not use case lube, but do have a bottle of "One Shot". I have wasted more brass on setting this up than I ever did on the Lee. How many times can I bell the brass and then resize it setting up the dies?ImageUploadedByTapatalk1425855911.938886.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1425855928.138330.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1425855937.751359.jpg
 
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Station 1 - make sure the case is inserted fully into the shell plate by the case feeder, I think this may be your problem

Station 2 - make small adjustments, just enough so that the bullet sits flat on the case. The bell will vary with case length and will be different with a case that is done in steps instead of all at once.

Station 3 is for powder check as you know

Station 4 - I would set it up with a standard seat die until you get it working.
Are you using jacketed bullets? I have heard cast don’t work so well in feed dies.

Station 5 - crimp die

Hope this helps
 
I was also going to suggest that you just seat with one die, (placing the bullets by hand) and crimp with the final die. As was mentioned, belling will vary with case length-if they are not all the same, the bell will be more or less.
 
Not what you want to hear but after I switched to Dillon dies it took very little tweaking to get everything working correctly. The most fiddling I did, for 9mm, was getting the crimp die set. Also, every time I set up a new set of dies I follow the directions step by step, even though I have done it before. I also found that it worked better and made for more consistent results if I ran the press through the full cycle even if I did not need to seat a primer, particularly when it came to setting the powder measure.
 
One Shot case lube is ok .... I'd recommend you try it.

Ruining brass is not a big deal ....getting the press set up properly is your goal.

If the Lee dies work ...then you're fine...( it just sounded to me like you were having so many issues that you needed to start fresh). With the typical set of Dillon dies ...you will have 3 dies...Size & Deprime / Seating die / Crimp die....but from your photos it doesn't look to me like you're belling your case nearly enough to seat the bullet properly - but in the set of instructions I have for the 650 press....Figure 43 shows you how much bell you should have.../ but in my view bullet seating and the final crimp are best done in 2 stations, like the 650 was designed for.

how many times can you bell and resize a case...I don't know ...probably 20 or more times I would think..../ but again, that isn't the issue...in my view.

I would ignore the bullet feeding operation you have ...until you get the press working properly / and then integrate that operation later. I don't find a bullet feeder an attractive accessory on a 650 since it'll easily turn out 20 boxes an hour without it - and of the few guys I know that do have them, I understand they have their issues.
 
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I could not get the hornady bullet feeder die to feed reliably either, so I stopped using it. I would move that hornady seating die to station 4 and put a dillon crimp die in station 5.
 
Broken/bent die pins -
Bought some range brass on-line, I bent my first pin then figured out it was berdan primed cases. Culled through all of them again, dumped them in the recycle bucket. Decapped a couple thousand since, no problems. Some euro cases have smaller flash holes, they chew up the pin pretty good but it should not bend a pin. I've found the only way to break a pin is trying to decap berdans or a badly misaligned case to die when decapping. Pretty tough to do when using a sizing/deprime (I decap all cases separately) die so not sure why this is happening.

Just finished loading 1200 cartridges, 9mm on my 650. Grabbed about half a dozen sacrifice cases for setup. Yes it does take time to get everything just right and even more of a pain once primers and powder loaded up. Needed to tweak the belling/powder drop station after a 100 or so rounds. Stayed put after that.

As others have mentioned, lube is not required but doesn't hurt. People flame one-shot but I like this stuff for 9mm more than lanolin. Yes, one-shot sucks for .223, but for 9mm, it won't leave a greasy film yet makes a huge difference in how smooth the machine runs.

As for die adjustments, remember that nothing will help if your shellplate is not setup correctly. I had mine setup too tight, would not index properly which caused alignment issues.
When setting up dies, most people go around to each station and adjust. If your shell plate is too loose, those adjustments that worked for each individual station may not be correct for all stations working simultaneously. There is definitely a sweet spot on the 650, good thing there is a set screw to lock that shell plate bolt in place.

This was the biggest mistake I made early on so it might save you some headaches if you check that first before you tear down your dies.
I have no intention of adding a bullet feeder, the operation is fast enough without one.
 
Just my opinion here, I've a 650xl too and went to it from a Lee classic ss.
I don't like your brass in the photo. You have a bell, but at the top, it is crimped inward. The bell has to be a bell before you can place the bullet in the case. The photo with the bullet seated has the bullet not crimped properly. Go back and reset EACH individual die. One at a time. Get the case deprime and sized. Then the powder die should bell correctly, thus is the hardest part that I have encountered. There isn't much adjustment from not enough to too much. Once bullet will sit properly, then seat a few and crimp. Check out and drop it gauge or barrel to check. Good luck.
 
I set mine up with all the stations full. If you set up each station with only a case it that station, you'll experience inconsistencies at every station, size, powder/bell, seat and crimp, once the shell plate is full.
 
I think we're right back to "read the manual again".....and follow it .

yes, setup is all of these issues...indexing of the shell plate is a big deal / if it isn't done right you can't go to the next step. Positioning case in station 1 is critical....belling, etc in station 2 is critical....setting up powder check ...and seating die ...and final crimp die..../ every step is critical.
 
I have to agree with handloader109--unless it's an optical illusion, those cases do not look belled properly. Looks like they were belled, then partially crimped?
 
The biggest pain the butt regarding the Dillon 650 and 9mm is the powder spill issue. When the 650 indexes, due to the small case being shaken when it hits the indexing ball, a small amount of power will fly out from the case. It is a problem that has multiple alleged fixes, that you can find on youtube. I've tried them all, and they only partially help.
 
Hodgdon TiteGroup is a good powder on 9mm...and because its volume is relatively low...it makes this powder splash issue / not an issue.

I also find that by fussing with the adjustment on the shell plate bolt - just a little - almost eliminates the "case snap" as it indexes in most cases / except in the highest volume powders ---

... another common sense fix is to pause just a second as the shell plate rotates - and place the bullet in the case mouth as it passes part way between stations 3 and 4 ..and you won't have any issue even with high volume powders in 9mm or .380 ...

....and I don't find it an issue in larger volume cases like .40S&W or .45 acp, etc...
 
I have an XL-650 that I have used a bunch . After looking at the pictures I do not see anything that looks right . Check the die it does not look like it is working correctly . The BELL you are looking for will be very noticeable it will be smooth not rough like I am seeing . LOOK AT THE DIE TAKE IT APART AND LOOK some thing is not right
 
You feel the needs to be more of a bell, and there needs to be more of a crimp? As for reading the manual, I have done it many times. I am fine with the resize/decap, new one in place and reset. Station 2 dropping correct amount of powder, bell readjusted today. Backed out a bit to make the bell less pronounced. Station 3, powder Check working fine. Station 4, seems to be dropping a bullet consistently . Station 5, I thought was crimping fine, but you're saying it needs more crimp? And the COAL is right on.
 
Are you chanfering and deburring your cases before you load them? If so, you could have gone to far and now everyone is seeing a bevel on the outside lip of your case and think your not belling enough or crimping enough. That's what it looks like to me in those pictures, like the case had been chamfered/deburred too much. You don't need to remove a lot of metal, just smooth the edge. There are 3 things that can prevent a round from setting where it should in a case gage. 1. Case too long or short. 2. Improper crimp. (too much or not enough). and 3. The rim of the head is deformed and won't fit the opening anymore. You can check that by trying to insert the round backwards. If the head enters just fine, then it has to be one of the other problems.
 
I've been reloading for over 40 yrs...and I don't know anyone that trims...or chamfers or deburs handgun cases..../ but maybe some do... ---- personally I sweep up literally hundreds of spent cases at my indoor range every week....clean and sort them.../ throw out anything that looks beat up or nasty...shoot them until I lose them / and I shoot about 18,000 rds of 9mm alone every year...and while I have a trimmer for rifle cases, I haven't used it in well over 10 yrs...

In station 5 your need to crimp to remove all the bell - and make sure the case edge does not catch on the feed ramp in your guns / after awhile you'll get a sense of how that edge between the bullet and the case should feel when its right...

....and to make sure it drops in and out of a case gage smoothly and is not over-length based on the case gage..../ the OAL in the loading tables is the least significant piece of info in them, in my view. Base your OAL off of the case gague - or on what you measure with similar shaped bullets in factory ammo - and whether that finished round fees in all your guns in that caliber.
( in 9mm - I have a variety of guns ...Sig 239, Sig 226, 5" 1911's, 4" 1911's...) so I like my 9mm under the max OAL of course...but a few thousandths longer than some factory ammo - so you have to find what works for you.
 
No, not doing any of that. The following pic is after I re-adjusted the powder drop. Drops in/out of the case gauge with no hang ups .

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1426176516.323144.jpg
 
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