Training to own a firearm?

It's pretty hard to reply to this thread without offending anyone. On one hand I want to say that gun safety and operation should be taught to every person, even as early as middle school. That way every man, woman, and child can have a certain respect for our deadly little beauties. Also, so that every person can operate their firearms safely, I've seen too many bad range days...so to speak. On the other hand, to say they have to have training just to own a firearm is beside me. I know a few shooters that are self taught and very much proficient in the operation and maintenance of their guns. Both sides clash(on a softer note I believe that's called clapping). I want everyone who owns a firearm to be trained, but i realize training comes in many forms. I myself do not have the level of training that alot of you are referring to, hell the army didn't teach me half those drills...
I had more, but I lost my train of thought. I apologize if I offended anyone, this is a subject that tears me down the middle, yet it's very close to the heart.
 
Why on God's green earth would I set the RKBA arguments aside?!? That's a little like saying, "aside from avoiding germs, why should I wash my hands?"
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The reason I'm setting that aside is that I'm pretty sure that all here agree (myself included) that there should be no legal requirement for training in regard to RKBA....any more that one should have to pass high school grammar in order to have 1st Amendment rights. I'm looking for the preferred baseline of training that those here (including the professional trainers) consider as the minimum threshold for gun ownership. I also want to know if that training should come from only professional trainers in person or if other means of acquiring that knowledge are valid.

This is quite thought-provoking. Please continue....
 
Yet another way to consider the OP's question, which has already been well-discussed. This is just something I heard from a training video that I think makes sense here.

Addressing RKBA, not setting it aside, no training required. Government-required training to exercise a right is wrong for the same reason poll taxes and literacy tests were wrong.

Being a responsible gun owner however, you should at least get formal training, even if it's only a short 1/2 day class, in gun safety and the fundamentals of operating your firearm.

If you intend to rely on your firearm as a means of protection, then in addition to knowing gun safety and how to shoot, you need to know how to fight with a gun (or with the guns you'd use), and, when to fight (the legal stuff).

Armed citizens with little or no training are constantly saving themselves from attackers despite not having "enough" or even any training. (David Grossman in The Bulletproof Mind presentation- recommended). Your chances of prevailing though are much better if you've had at least some training. Your chances should be better yet if you've invested in more and higher-level training. There are no guarantees though. You could be trained to the highest level there is, and still be hurt by an attacker. But if you can do it, you owe it to yourself and to those who might rely on you for protection to get trained. That sounds sappy but it's true. Take it from Lt Col Grossman which is where I heard that particular truism.

So, if you can't afford any training, then you can't and you might be ok. I'd submit though that investing (paying for) at least some training ought to be in the budget though right behind a gun and ammo for it. I didn't always live this, I used to be one of those people who thought he knew what was going on and didn't need to "waste money" on training. Fortunately I wised up eventually and got on the path of training. (I'll be on it for the rest of my life) I don't take groceries off my family's table to pay for training, but I have taken luxuries out of the budget before to pay for it.

I'd argue a good minimum level of training for an armed citizen to be that corresponding to going through NRA Basic Pistol, (and maybe Shotgun and Rifle, too), NRA Personal Protection Inside the Home, and NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home. That's more training than the vast majority of gun owners will ever get. But, that amounts to the BASICS of what you should know. I teach all these NRA classes and think they're great, but, if you have the means, I'd say to go further yet and take the basics of shooting and personal protection from one or more high-level instructors, whoever they might be. I mean places like Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Rangemaster, Massad Ayoob Group, and many others like that. (No disrespect intended to any establishments not on this partial list of examples).
 
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Having coached Jr. Rifle and sent my daughters...

through beginning rifle and hunter safety.

The first should be a basic firearms training course, either hunter safety or beginning rifle / pistol course.
Here you will get the safety lessons and principals of sight alignment and trigger control and breathing.

When the person is comfortable with the firearm of choice, then try standardized course of fire; e.g.: bulleyes shooting, bowling pins, silhouette, etc.

The they should consider advance training courses within local area.

Best to "Keep it super simple" for starting.
 
Seeker two,

I have a serious issue with anyone who would say that if someone hasn't been trained then they shouldn't own a firearm.

I do recommend training to others, and have received thousands of dollars worth of training myself.

The REQUIREMENT is being intelligent enough to earn enough money to buy one through legal channels.
 
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I strongly recommend starting with the NRA Home Firearm Safety course, then the pistol course, then go from there.
 
Legally none.

Personally, I would have a hard time trusting someone who regularly carries a gun if they can't fire it, have poor muzzle discipline, don't know the mechanics of the safety/action, etc. let alone the legal background.

Just like I wouldn't trust an unpracticed driver to take me somewhere in a stick they didn't know how to work without knowledge of traffic laws.
 
Three principles:
  • Self defense is a basic human right.

  • Humans are tool-users.

  • Everyone has a right to own the tools they believe they need in order to defend their lives.

Those are my foundational principles. Taken together, they mean I am not a fan of any type of legally-required training under any circumstances whatsoever.

Now, with that said, guns actually do require some level of knowledge & skill in order to be used effectively for self defense. On a practical level, if you're not going to learn how to use the tool, it does not do you much good to own one. You end up with a false level of confidence that isn't congruent with reality.

Still your right.

Just a waste of money that leads to false confidence, like spending $500 for a fancy rabbit's foot.

pax
 
As Jeff Cooper used to say:
It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully.
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This is foreign territory to me. I've used a firearm since I was 12 and carried a firearm almost continuously for most of my adult life. For me, it's no different than putting on clothes or brushing my teeth.
I have 2 DIL who weren't raised in a gun packing/hunting environment. They're not anti-gun or afraid of firearms-they just don't have the experience to be comfortable,YET. I've also met several nonshooters and gave them the opportunity to change their misinformed status.
In the current round of maniacal buying, I've got to say there are many people who now own firearms w/o the knowledge required to safely handle those tools. On the other hand, there are folks who own cars w/o knowing how to drive but they ARE required to display knowledge and skill before being allowed to legally drive on public roads.
I can only hope that those inexperienced gun owners make some effort to learn how to safely manage their new equipment before we see a rise in accidents. Such accidents would/will no doubt be used as leverage against us later.
 
Own VS Use

Being compentant has noting to do with your right to own a firearm. I know people who own firearms that have zero traiing. They are family airlooms and as such never see a simgle round of ammo.

I lso know people who own firearms and have no formal SD training of any sort. I call them hunters. They all had to take and pass hunters safety to hunt legally and I am ok with that as well.

What worries me to a degree are those folkls who decide to get a firearm to defend life and limb and never seek professional training. Much of my professionl training came from friends and family in law enforcment and military. That as vaueale a evntuly led to me seeking out other profesonal course. The other mediums that you reccomend are all valuable as well. Books, forums, videos, magizines, and the like all have their place. In the end there is no substitute for the real thing (training that is god forid we ever have to do the real real thing!)

Many states require traininig prior to allowing someone to carry their firearm. But requireing them to pass training prior to ownership is a different story entirely.

Regars, Vermonter
 
Related: I've worked with a lot of people who "grew up around guns" and did not know a thing about self-defense. Or about safely handling guns, for that matter.

Here's an article from Tom Givens on that subject. He worded things more harshly than I would have, but I do agree with the premise -- which is that a lot of people simply do not know what they don't know, and thus are not as safe (or as prepared to protect themselves) as they think they are.

"Heck, I Grew Up Around Guns" by Tom Givens.

Tom Givens said:
Not long ago, I was enjoying a steak dinner with several other full-time firearms instructors. We had two from Rangemaster, two from Gunsite, two from the American Institute of Marksmanship, and a couple of law enforcement firearms instructors from local agencies. During dinner, the topic came up, “What phrase really darkens your day when you hear it?” The unanimous answer was, “Heck, I grew up around guns.” (H,IGUAG)

This simple, six word sentence is guaranteed to cause dread among firearms trainers, and is usually the signal that a long, stressful, and frustrating day lies ahead.
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Read the whole thing.

pax
 
To go along with the general trend here, I would like to state that all training isn't created equal. Military training included.

Some of the more egregious exampls of poor firearms handling I've seen came from the boys and girls in out S-1 and S-2 shops who got all the training they "needed" at Ft. Jackson.

Issues of trigger discipline, muzzle discipline, weapon security etc. abounded with those guys and girls, who were supposedly trained.

I'm very pro-training, but anti-government mandated training.

I think the best firearms training, safe gun handling wise, I ever got was when I took the rifle merit badge as a Boy Scout. And that curriculum was written in part by the NRA.
 
Response to the Tom Givens cite (I know he hasn't directly posted here).

First: I believe in training; it's the responsible thing to do if you own/use anything with any complexity in design, function, or use. I believe in responsibility. There are a lot of great ideas in this thread.

But:

Gee, Tom…

Too bad there's not something like "lane-side manner":).

Way to alienate a whole bunch of people who might otherwise happily take a training class:eek:.

Labeling everyone who grew up around guns and has the temerity to mention it in your presence "…ignorant and stupid…" can be seen as…well, ignorant.

IGUAG and I have also received some training over the years. I'm sure I'm not as well trained as I would like to be; I'm not as well-trained as some would like me to be; I'm sure that I'm not trained well enough to even own a gun by some people's standards.

Tough.

I am what I am. I will continue to seek training when I can do so. I will not willingly train with anyone who comes across as an elitist know-it-all with contempt for my level of ignorance (maybe, "inexperience" would be a more marketable term).

I don't know you, Tom, and you may be a really nice guy who really knows your stuff. However, based on your epistle cited in this thread, I would likely seek my training from someone who is less openly contemptuous of my inexperience.

Have a great day,

Best,

Will
 
Will,

I do agree it was worded more hashly than I would have preferred. Posted it because of the message that a lot of people think they're safer than they really are -- not because I agree with the harshness there.

pax
 
Yes, it's a bit harsh, but it makes an important point very concisely -- and he's speaking in general, not to any one individual. I'd bet money that when Mr. Givens is actually "counseling" these guys, he doesn't start out by telling them they're ignorant and stupid...
 
And the bottom line is that safe gun handling, the fundamentals of marksmanship, the array of skills to effectively use a firearm defensively in an unpredictable, dynamic, violent event, and the knowledge to appropriately make a decision to resort to lethal force are neither instinctive nor intuitive. Such skills and knowledge need to be learned.

Someone having "grown up around guns" is no guarantee that he (or she) has learned all, or even some, of it.
 
Someone having "grown up around guns" is no guarantee that he (or she) has learned all, or even some, of it.
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True enough and something we should all keep in mind when around those who are using complex and potentially dangerous equipment with (unknown to us) levels of skill.

My only point was that my feelings were bruised :D by the implication that someone having "grown up around guns" is a guarantee of ignorance and stupidity.

I think, like "enough money", there's no such thing as "enough training". No one is so skilled that nothing more can be gained or trained.

It's just counterproductive for any of us to denigrate those we think have need of more.

Best,

Will
 
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