Perhaps I am bitter - because for over 10 years I was fed too much BS by my esteemed Tae Kwon Do instructors, all high ranking Korean blackbelts. For the record, TKD was my first "martial art." While I lived in East Asia for years (mostly Japan and Korea), I trained in it extensively, earned my black belt at the Kukiwon (World Tae Kwon Do Federation Headquarters) in front of several prestigious Korean masters.
Then I witnessed a highly touted Korean "full-contact" champion get beaten senseless by an amateur Muay Thai competitor while on tour in Thailand. It was like watching a five-year old fight a grown up man. Admittedly, this was under Thai rules (which certainly allows most and perhaps all TKD techniques), but it was certainly illuminating. I thought that this was a fluke. But it happened time and time again, including to me.
Now, to the specifics:
kungfool:
"Superfoot" Wallace won a world championship and ALL he used were sidekicks!
Mr. Wallace was great at what he did. But how long do you think that he would've lasted in a Thai bout? Not very long.
Don Gwinn:
Frankly, I don't understand the idea that TKD strikes are not powerful. Muay Thai supposedly may have more power in the roundhouse, but the explanation I've been given by practitioners is that the shin is used, the hips are turned quickly during the movement, and the body follows through.
Because TKD folks aren't taught to roundhouse with the shin! That's why! TKD folks roundhouse with the top of their feet, which is a fairly weak part of the body. Thai uses the shin (okay, a highly callused shin), which can shatter baseball bats.
That's all great, but what's to stop a TKD practitioner from doing the same thing?
They can, but they DON'T because that's not how it's taught. Rigid adherence to tradition. Compare that to Jeet Kune Do, which adopts techniques from others (like knees from Thai) when it becomes apparent that some techniques ARE better than others.
Aside from that, it's all how the training is conducted. Let me use boxing analogy. TKD has a flurry of punching techniques. But, no one familiar with both boxing and TKD would seriously suggest that TKD punching techniques are as powerful or as effective as boxing hand techniques (holding all other variables constant if we could do such a thing). Why? Because boxers train with much fewer constraints on their punching when they train dynamically (sparring), which is where one finds out whether "air" trained techniques work or not. Same story with Thai boxers - they are less constrained when they train dynamically with elbows, knees and shin kicks.
I've also noticed in some MMA competitions that when a kick doesn't connect this provides a big opening for a grappler to shoot.
And TKD does really well against grapplers? We are speaking of strict striking match here, if you will. But if you must, MT does much better than TKD in MMA in my view.
Many arts have flowery stuff that you would not use against a lethal opponent, and even the good techniques don't work in all situations.
Sure, that's true. But you also would NOT say that all arts have same percentage of flowery stuff, would you? Obviously some would have more of those than others, wouldn't they?
You wouldn't do that Muay Thai clinch to deliver knee strikes if the other guy had a knife, would you?
No I wouldn't. I wouldn't use Thai or TKD with someone with a knife. I'd run first. If I couldn't, I'd attempt to defend myself with a firearm. If I didn't have one, I'd improvise a weapon (something stick-like) all the while trying to evade and escape. If nothing else still, I'd flick out my pocket knife and try to put my limited Arnis training to use, still looking for a speedy exit. And so on and so forth.
What would you do? Kick the knife accompanied by a big Kihap? We aren't talking about whether Thai or TKD is good for knife-defense as neither has anything to do with such a thing (Thai never pretends to while many TKD instructors do). We were speaking of the relative power of striking techniques between the two.
I see a trend emerging, and it is this--the cross-trained fighter who wants to be Bruce Lee or Ken Shamrock, but is a jack of all trades and master of none. Too much emphasis on knowing a little about every system known to man, too much emphasis on having more techniques than everyone else. Too many teenagers who claim to practice five or six arts--when they've actually only attended a few classes in most of them before they got disenchanted that they weren't learning grappling, or locks, or whatever.
Who is this referring to? As for the whole teenager comment, look no further than TKD, which has done so much to McDonaldize and MTVize martial arts.
LawDog:
I'm going to beat that drum yet again: It ain't the style, it's the warrior.
Sure, it's the warrior. But his techniques does play a role, no? Polish lancers could have all the elan, bravery and "combat mindset" of super-duper warriors, but could not overcome German Grenadiers or Panzers in 1939. Why? Two main reasons - obsolete equipment (technology) and outdated doctrine (technique). Spirit is a great thing, but not something that can win by itself. The Japanese learned that the hard way.
On the same paw, someone who trains and dedicates himself to tae kwon do, takes it with a warrior mindset, and learns, then tae kwon do is as effective as any other style out there.
What if "someone who trains and dedicates himself to MT, takes it with a warrior mindset, and learns" and fights the above guy you cited? Who wins? Obviously the one who trained more effectively and realistically. I am merely arguing that Thai techniques are largely (no absolutes here, just some generalities and simplifications
) more realistic and, yes, powerful. Why? Because they need to be - the exigencies of their competition and training require so - while those of TKD do not.
BTW, show me a TKD guy who can do this (long download, about 16 megs or so, but worth a watch for martial arts fans):
http://www.sherdog.com/cgi-bin/highlights.pl?21-VanderleiSilvaLQ.zip
Of course, he is no ordinary human being - he is the "Axe Murderer."
Skorzeny