Southern_guy
New member
If you carry concealed, you can take it in to places that it wouldn't be approved of.
Touchy subject
- Thread starter WhiteFeather93
- Start date
jurassicnarc
Inactive
My 2 cents
After 28 years in DEA, I believe all are better served when the weapon is concealed. Forget all this stuff about 'printing'.....most of the time mine is just jammed in my belt, sans holster, with nothing but a rumpled t-shirt or an open sport shirt or (in rainy weather) a windbreaker. For 17 years, until policy toward magnums changed, I comfortably carried a Smith 29-2 with a 6 1/2" barrel without a holster...........and I NEVER had trouble getting it out in plenty of time. Most folks are too busy thinking about what they need to do next, to continually scan others for the presence of a gun. I have followed BG's into bank lines and stood two feet away and never got a second look except maybe for my physical size. Do not laugh at this next....If you are comfortable, your AURA is not picked up by others. If you feel on edge, you radiate those negative feelings. No Joke. So stuff it and forget about it....but for God's sake don't continually 'pat' it or adjust it....you might as well wear a sign on your forehead.
Oh, and when the dukey hits the blades, often I was able to handle it without ever drawing it out. Peace be unto you...............
After 28 years in DEA, I believe all are better served when the weapon is concealed. Forget all this stuff about 'printing'.....most of the time mine is just jammed in my belt, sans holster, with nothing but a rumpled t-shirt or an open sport shirt or (in rainy weather) a windbreaker. For 17 years, until policy toward magnums changed, I comfortably carried a Smith 29-2 with a 6 1/2" barrel without a holster...........and I NEVER had trouble getting it out in plenty of time. Most folks are too busy thinking about what they need to do next, to continually scan others for the presence of a gun. I have followed BG's into bank lines and stood two feet away and never got a second look except maybe for my physical size. Do not laugh at this next....If you are comfortable, your AURA is not picked up by others. If you feel on edge, you radiate those negative feelings. No Joke. So stuff it and forget about it....but for God's sake don't continually 'pat' it or adjust it....you might as well wear a sign on your forehead.
Oh, and when the dukey hits the blades, often I was able to handle it without ever drawing it out. Peace be unto you..............."Well...,
#1 My OC is a Kimber in a Serpa holster
#2 My 629 Chambered in 44mag (which would be CC)would meet U between the Eyes ( This would be my Element of SURPRISE to You)
Do you FEEL lucky ??? Do You ???"
If your blind sided by a BG and Dazed or even knocked unconcious because you pose a threat to his scheme because of open carry, your concealed back-up will probably be found at the hospital as they strip you for the cat-scan or emergency surgery. Alot of people can rip a phonebook in half with their bare hands, you don't think your sherpa holster can be torn off your belt ? BG's don't practice self-defense, they practice ruthless offense. But I know everybody on the net is a highly trained ninja or straight outta the matrix. I'll always believe that a supprise attack will be atleast 5x as devastating as the ole look em' in the eye an charge technique, just my .02 and thats probably a little expensive for my opinion.
#1 My OC is a Kimber in a Serpa holster
#2 My 629 Chambered in 44mag (which would be CC)would meet U between the Eyes ( This would be my Element of SURPRISE to You)
Do you FEEL lucky ??? Do You ???"
If your blind sided by a BG and Dazed or even knocked unconcious because you pose a threat to his scheme because of open carry, your concealed back-up will probably be found at the hospital as they strip you for the cat-scan or emergency surgery. Alot of people can rip a phonebook in half with their bare hands, you don't think your sherpa holster can be torn off your belt ? BG's don't practice self-defense, they practice ruthless offense. But I know everybody on the net is a highly trained ninja or straight outta the matrix. I'll always believe that a supprise attack will be atleast 5x as devastating as the ole look em' in the eye an charge technique, just my .02 and thats probably a little expensive for my opinion.
tony pasley
New member
There is a time and place for either. I have carried both ways, twice when I was carring without cover over weapon I stop robberies. I know this because the badguys decided to leave where I was and went several miles away and aattempted a different store. I have even had a D@mn yankee call the law. When the officer showed up he ask me about some one with a gun while we talked the yankee just looked stupid.
Because of the "sheeple heads in the sand" attitude of great numbers of local people, . . . I would not personally OC here in central Ohio.
In the backwoods of KY, . . . I have and would again, . . . thar's thangs in them thar woods what's difrunt from Alum Creek State Park.
I am not at all comfortable, . . . and haven't been since I left Long Xuyen, RVN, . . . with open carry. I don't care who knows I have my CCW, . . . but to just flop down the street with a 1911 hanging out in a hand carved leather thigh holster, . . . nahhhhhhhhhh!
May God bless,
Dwight
In the backwoods of KY, . . . I have and would again, . . . thar's thangs in them thar woods what's difrunt from Alum Creek State Park.
I am not at all comfortable, . . . and haven't been since I left Long Xuyen, RVN, . . . with open carry. I don't care who knows I have my CCW, . . . but to just flop down the street with a 1911 hanging out in a hand carved leather thigh holster, . . . nahhhhhhhhhh!
May God bless,
Dwight
The primary reason I carry is for protection. Why then give a huge tactical advantage to the bg?? Bg's are counting on a bunch of unarmed sheeple, which I want them to think I am. If I am in a bank or convenient store that is getting ready to be robbed, there is definetely a chance the bg is going to see my OC. I ahve just become his first target, or he will stick a gun in my face and demand I hand him my gun.
I ccw to have an advantage, why would I give alot of that advantage up. I want every advantage I can get. Why spend alot of money, train, train and train, go through the hassle of carrying - just to give up some advantage.
The lost advantage might be small in most situations, but it could be huge in other situations. I have seen several robberies on Utube where the bg waits in line at the cashier before committing to the crime. What if I am in front of him in line oc?? - if he is dead set to commit the robbery he will put my lights out. Not likely, but possible.
I agree and applaud the argument to oc because it is a right, and to educate people, and I am not the slightest bit worried about LEO (they can kiss my *ss). But, I dont like the loss of tactical.
When the hostage taker in a bank tells us all to lie on the floor and be still, I want him to think I am another umarmed sheeple. HUGE advantage. When the bg goes from one person to another in a fast food joint to collect their goods, I want him to think I am unarmed - HUGE ADVANTAGE. When the punk on a dark sidewalk points a gun or knife at me and my wife and says give me your wallet and purse - I dont want him to see my OC.
I IWB a full size 1911 in a comp-tac ctac holster. It is extrememly comfortable. All day long, don't even know it is there. My Gunsite instructor recommended it
http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog/pro...id=61&osCsid=78481366913b58ac317b72ccb1818956
OC = Too little to gain, too much to loose. IMO
I ccw to have an advantage, why would I give alot of that advantage up. I want every advantage I can get. Why spend alot of money, train, train and train, go through the hassle of carrying - just to give up some advantage.
The lost advantage might be small in most situations, but it could be huge in other situations. I have seen several robberies on Utube where the bg waits in line at the cashier before committing to the crime. What if I am in front of him in line oc?? - if he is dead set to commit the robbery he will put my lights out. Not likely, but possible.
I agree and applaud the argument to oc because it is a right, and to educate people, and I am not the slightest bit worried about LEO (they can kiss my *ss). But, I dont like the loss of tactical.
When the hostage taker in a bank tells us all to lie on the floor and be still, I want him to think I am another umarmed sheeple. HUGE advantage. When the bg goes from one person to another in a fast food joint to collect their goods, I want him to think I am unarmed - HUGE ADVANTAGE. When the punk on a dark sidewalk points a gun or knife at me and my wife and says give me your wallet and purse - I dont want him to see my OC.
I IWB a full size 1911 in a comp-tac ctac holster. It is extrememly comfortable. All day long, don't even know it is there. My Gunsite instructor recommended it
http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog/pro...id=61&osCsid=78481366913b58ac317b72ccb1818956
OC = Too little to gain, too much to loose. IMO
WhiteFeather93 and thepreacher: Thanks for your kind words.
I am certainly in agreement with everyone the each mode of carry has it's merits and different scenerio's call for different tactics. It's just a fact of life (or death
)
I am not strictly an OC type of guy. I will CC when I feel necessary, when law requires, and/or when circumstances dictate.
Exactly! BGs are counting on a bunch of unarmed citizens. The BG will see what he expects, under most circumstances. I will grant you the possibility that a BG has a chance to see your OC and you then become a target. Where are your cites detailing the probability of such a scenario to exist compared to the advantages of BG not attacking you (or another) based on the fact that he sees your OC? How do you know you've become his first target? Perhaps it is now that he/she realizes it wasn't such a great idea to pick this target and then decides to take off.
Again, I must ask for cites that show that the lost advantage is not worth it in a majority of scenarios. I often decide on the method of carry depending on data I have read and researched. I have not seen any compelling data that dramatically adjusts my attitude on OC vs. CC.
I don't have any cites to back this up, but if you're in a scenario where a BG/robber is behind you in line and he is waiting patiently for his turn to rob the place, I would be willing to bet that he'll perform the robbery exactly like he stood in line...quietly. A note will be passed and tellers are trained to do what they're told by robbers (I know, because I worked at a bank for several years). I do know that most bank robberies are not a violent take over robbery. Most bank robberies are a BG passing a note to a teller.
With that said. This is a far better experience in an OC vs. CC thread I have seen in a great number of forums. I have found in a lot of pro-2A forums that the CC crowd is downright hostile towards those that prefer OC. I commend you folks for keeping this thread civil and pleasant.
I've not been on this forum for very long and thus far I am pleased with the experience.
I am certainly in agreement with everyone the each mode of carry has it's merits and different scenerio's call for different tactics. It's just a fact of life (or death
)I am not strictly an OC type of guy. I will CC when I feel necessary, when law requires, and/or when circumstances dictate.
Exactly! BGs are counting on a bunch of unarmed citizens. The BG will see what he expects, under most circumstances. I will grant you the possibility that a BG has a chance to see your OC and you then become a target. Where are your cites detailing the probability of such a scenario to exist compared to the advantages of BG not attacking you (or another) based on the fact that he sees your OC? How do you know you've become his first target? Perhaps it is now that he/she realizes it wasn't such a great idea to pick this target and then decides to take off.
Again, I must ask for cites that show that the lost advantage is not worth it in a majority of scenarios. I often decide on the method of carry depending on data I have read and researched. I have not seen any compelling data that dramatically adjusts my attitude on OC vs. CC.
I don't have any cites to back this up, but if you're in a scenario where a BG/robber is behind you in line and he is waiting patiently for his turn to rob the place, I would be willing to bet that he'll perform the robbery exactly like he stood in line...quietly. A note will be passed and tellers are trained to do what they're told by robbers (I know, because I worked at a bank for several years). I do know that most bank robberies are not a violent take over robbery. Most bank robberies are a BG passing a note to a teller.
With that said. This is a far better experience in an OC vs. CC thread I have seen in a great number of forums. I have found in a lot of pro-2A forums that the CC crowd is downright hostile towards those that prefer OC. I commend you folks for keeping this thread civil and pleasant.
I've not been on this forum for very long and thus far I am pleased with the experience.
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WhiteFeather93
New member
I second that! Thank you everyone for keeping this simple. Like I had stated in the beginning I was sure this would be a down the middle argument. I would like to see some more opinions from some LEO's and retired LEO's.
I will agree with some that you do give up a advantage in some situations. I think what confounds me the most is the lack of data for either. I would have to say the better part of this statement is based in assumptions.
You have to assume that Person A: Walks camly into a bank/store and asses the situation and looks for hazards and potetial problems. This would not be ideal for OC.
Person B:Runs into the store to hold up the clerk and does not take into account anything but a time constraint to get in and get out. Good for both OC and CC.
Person C: Camly walks in store/bank sees OC and decides its not worth the risk leaves.
Personally that is a great reason to OC. And although CC would be alright the less I am in that situation the happier I am.
Person D: Walks into Bank/Store and decides that there should be no witnesses. Doesn't much matter then.
There are so many things you have to add to the equation that it gets quite mind boggling.
Are you in a isle? Are you checking out? Is this a bank, Store? Are you in a office at the bank? Do you have cover? Are you right or left handed? What side of you is being viewed from the outside? I would love to see some convincing data on both CC and OC and their effects on the criminal mind. Like someone had pointed out, it is very hard to forget what you have learned to remember the nothing that inhabts many of the criminals on the street today. Am I out of line to say that the average bank/7-11 robber is between 15 and 21? Have they had formal training at that point? Have they had any training? Yes there are some very smart criminals out there. And I will be the first to admit not to plan on dumb criminals. But there is no concrete evidence to suggest that either gives you a advantage over the other.
I would like to say that OC is a freedom for now. And that freedom could easily be taken away by word from your own mouth. People in Ohio or Main or anywhere are afraid of such things because it is not practiced. As some have stated it is shunned and often ridiculed. Why some would hand over such a great freedom is beyond me. But by edgucating people and OC'ing once in a while maybe I can make where I live a much gun friendly-er place. I may not know what a criminal thinks. But I am sure that if a criminal walked down the street and every person in the town had a sidearm strapped to their hip for all to see. I doubt very much that they would be willing to risk even stealing a Snikers bar.
Again thank you all for keeping this civil and not on a locked thread list.
P.P.S. I hope I didn't speak too soon.
I will agree with some that you do give up a advantage in some situations. I think what confounds me the most is the lack of data for either. I would have to say the better part of this statement is based in assumptions.
You have to assume that Person A: Walks camly into a bank/store and asses the situation and looks for hazards and potetial problems. This would not be ideal for OC.
Person B:Runs into the store to hold up the clerk and does not take into account anything but a time constraint to get in and get out. Good for both OC and CC.
Person C: Camly walks in store/bank sees OC and decides its not worth the risk leaves.
Personally that is a great reason to OC. And although CC would be alright the less I am in that situation the happier I am.
Person D: Walks into Bank/Store and decides that there should be no witnesses. Doesn't much matter then.
There are so many things you have to add to the equation that it gets quite mind boggling.
Are you in a isle? Are you checking out? Is this a bank, Store? Are you in a office at the bank? Do you have cover? Are you right or left handed? What side of you is being viewed from the outside? I would love to see some convincing data on both CC and OC and their effects on the criminal mind. Like someone had pointed out, it is very hard to forget what you have learned to remember the nothing that inhabts many of the criminals on the street today. Am I out of line to say that the average bank/7-11 robber is between 15 and 21? Have they had formal training at that point? Have they had any training? Yes there are some very smart criminals out there. And I will be the first to admit not to plan on dumb criminals. But there is no concrete evidence to suggest that either gives you a advantage over the other.
I would like to say that OC is a freedom for now. And that freedom could easily be taken away by word from your own mouth. People in Ohio or Main or anywhere are afraid of such things because it is not practiced. As some have stated it is shunned and often ridiculed. Why some would hand over such a great freedom is beyond me. But by edgucating people and OC'ing once in a while maybe I can make where I live a much gun friendly-er place. I may not know what a criminal thinks. But I am sure that if a criminal walked down the street and every person in the town had a sidearm strapped to their hip for all to see. I doubt very much that they would be willing to risk even stealing a Snikers bar.
Again thank you all for keeping this civil and not on a locked thread list.
P.P.S. I hope I didn't speak too soon.
Wildalaska
Moderator
I think open carry is dumb and counterproductive to the image of gun owners. So is the term sheeple.
I also wonder why you feel the need to carry a full size 1911 (and a spare mag too, may I ask?) in a place where there is one light etc...Mayberry?
Capn Charlie, your scenario is different. This isnt 20 years ago though. In fact, my dad in the 1940s used to hitchhike with rifles in the Bronx. It meant nothing back then.
WildlotsofthingsweredifferentthenAlaska
I also wonder why you feel the need to carry a full size 1911 (and a spare mag too, may I ask?) in a place where there is one light etc...Mayberry?
Capn Charlie, your scenario is different. This isnt 20 years ago though. In fact, my dad in the 1940s used to hitchhike with rifles in the Bronx. It meant nothing back then.
WildlotsofthingsweredifferentthenAlaska
This was a fascinating post to read.
It made me think. Cudos to all how posted!
I live in Texas. Here we are required to "keep it secret, keep it safe".
However, if I could carry open I would, primarily because it would be easier to carry a larger weapon (I'm now relegated to a Glock-36, S&W 340PD or PPK) and it would be (in most cases) easier to access the weapon.
Any political statement I might make in so doing would be an added bonus. However, I've resigned myself to the fact that our sheepish population will never get it.
Great Post!
It made me think. Cudos to all how posted!
I live in Texas. Here we are required to "keep it secret, keep it safe".
However, if I could carry open I would, primarily because it would be easier to carry a larger weapon (I'm now relegated to a Glock-36, S&W 340PD or PPK) and it would be (in most cases) easier to access the weapon.
Any political statement I might make in so doing would be an added bonus. However, I've resigned myself to the fact that our sheepish population will never get it.
Great Post!
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
20??? Better double that, Ken.
ArizonaTRex
New member
+1 ksh
I also open carry on a regular basis. When in groups of people, at the bank, waiting in line at the local stop and rob I will conceal to maintain that "tactical" advantage. So far my experiences with open carry have all been positive and I do enjoy the chance to discuss why I carry. One thing I have noticed, when carrying open I am more hyper vigilant to my surroundings, which ain't such a bad thing. If I am in a situation with a BG HE already knows his plan, I want to be able to join the party as quickly as possible! I figure am playing the odds-that if a confrontation arises that I will be able to get my weapon out in a timely fashion, use it properly and with cause. I also play the odds by keeping a spare tire in my trunk (which I haven’t used in over a decade) fire extinguisher in the kitchen that I have never needed and TWO spare magazines for my full size 1911. When it comes to protecting my family-I don't gamble so I perfer to stack the deck in my favor-and sometimes open carry is the edge I prefer.
I also open carry on a regular basis. When in groups of people, at the bank, waiting in line at the local stop and rob I will conceal to maintain that "tactical" advantage. So far my experiences with open carry have all been positive and I do enjoy the chance to discuss why I carry. One thing I have noticed, when carrying open I am more hyper vigilant to my surroundings, which ain't such a bad thing. If I am in a situation with a BG HE already knows his plan, I want to be able to join the party as quickly as possible! I figure am playing the odds-that if a confrontation arises that I will be able to get my weapon out in a timely fashion, use it properly and with cause. I also play the odds by keeping a spare tire in my trunk (which I haven’t used in over a decade) fire extinguisher in the kitchen that I have never needed and TWO spare magazines for my full size 1911. When it comes to protecting my family-I don't gamble so I perfer to stack the deck in my favor-and sometimes open carry is the edge I prefer.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Satistically you are more likely to have a flat than be needing a gun LOL
Just for you Charlie, a new thread
WA
ArizonaTRex
New member
Wildalaska- If I had my druthers, I'd prefer to the rest of my life not ever do either! (And why is it I had more flats as a teenager than the rest my adult life?)
(And why is it I had more flats as a teenager than the rest my adult life?)Highwayman
Inactive
I'd also like to second (or third, maybe?) everything whitefeather and ksh have said about the postings on this thread; they are productive rather than argumentative and, thusly, counterproductive.
This, like many details of carrying a firearm, all comes down to personal preference. Both sides (for lack of a better word, because we're all really on the same "side" here, right?) make good points. Am I going to switch to open carry? Not anytime soon in my town, but again, that's my preference. Now, when I'm out in my woods, that's another story...
Thanks again to all those that have posted.
This, like many details of carrying a firearm, all comes down to personal preference. Both sides (for lack of a better word, because we're all really on the same "side" here, right?) make good points. Am I going to switch to open carry? Not anytime soon in my town, but again, that's my preference. Now, when I'm out in my woods, that's another story...
Thanks again to all those that have posted.
thepreacher
Inactive
If the BG doesn't know I have one, am I any different than your carry? Wouldn't this give me the 'tactical advantage' ?
And I hear this argument all the time that somehow 'OC is going to make you a target'. Isn't that why you carry? Regardless of how you carry, you are strapped for the primary reason of self-defense/personal security.
ksh wrote:
I find it funny that somehow wearing a vest or jacket could make someone, somehow more aware of their surroundings and thus, better that I am without a vest/jacket.
'Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.'
This applies to any armed resistance. I avoid stop and go places like the plague. And with pay at the pump, I rarely have to go into a 'nicer' convenience store.
I challenge anyone here to cite the 'OC citizen gets terminated by BGs' stats. I would love to see these as I believe this scenario if a figment of wild imaginations.
I OC to fight for our rights.
I do not want to be 'arguementative' but, I would like you to consider how statements like 'flopping around with a fullsize gun in a custom rig' could strike at someone, rather than make your point.
I do agree 'we are all on the same side' basically. I just don't like being portrayed as some goofy clown, while a 'CHL' somehow seems to make an IQ go up by 50 or more points
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No. With the gun displayed openly you lose the tactical advantage in a "take over" robbery situation. The deterent power of your firearm means nothing because the robbers will not be aware of the presence of the firearm until they have already charged through the door in ski masks with their guns drawn and the see the gun openly displayed on your hip. At that point they have the upper hand (their guns are in their hands, yours is in it's holster) are more likely to shoot you dead than call off the robbery they have already committed themselves to.
Highwayman
Inactive
Preacher, I hope I didn't come across as thinking I am more intelligent because I don't open carry. Again, I believe it is a decision based on preference, not intelligence.
For me, it is one's mindset while carrying that I tend to care more about than how they actually carry their firearm.
All of you know what types of people I'm speaking of. I believe it was touched on earlier in the thread, but it's those that carry for ego purposes or other reasons than for self defense (and defense of one's family) that bother me. Those people tend to carry with the "I dare you" attitude. THAT is asking for more trouble than simply open carrying.
For me, it is one's mindset while carrying that I tend to care more about than how they actually carry their firearm.
All of you know what types of people I'm speaking of. I believe it was touched on earlier in the thread, but it's those that carry for ego purposes or other reasons than for self defense (and defense of one's family) that bother me. Those people tend to carry with the "I dare you" attitude. THAT is asking for more trouble than simply open carrying.
WhiteFeather93
New member
Highwayman I think you have hit on a point that does often give a bad opinion of anyone who OC's simple because some have done it for that reason. But then there are those who CC for the same reason. I don't think IQ has anything to do with either. As mentioned before its a lot of preference. There is no data that suggest that either will give you anything over the other its all assumption. What I do see that I personally like is that by OC'ing I have a chance to edgucate people about firearms. We all have this fantisy of living in a country where firearms are accepted and the laws keep criminals from guns and not us. But I don't see many taking strides to obtain that. I'm not saying that by OC'ing you will but it does seem to have a more positive effect on people.
Wildalaska you stated that OC'ing is dumb and makes us look bad. May I ask your reasoning behind that?
I know its rude to answer a question with a question so I will answer yours in turn. I do not carry a spare mag. If 7+1 of Horneday TAP in the chamber isn't enough then I have far more problems than just an ammo shortage IMO. Why do I carry a 1911? Well the short of it is sentimentle. My Father USMC a vetran of Vietnam told me many stories of that particular pistol saving his life many of times. My Grandfather USMC Rest his soul had many stories involving that pistol during WWII and Korea.
The long of it is I train hard with that pistol. I am comfortable with that pistol. I like its styling and features. It is accurate, It is easy to clean and take care of. I have had no problems as of yet with said pistol. It has a Life Time Warranty, I could go on and on but I don't think its on topic for this thread. I guess I carry that pistol for the same reasons you carry you particular pistol. I don't want to beat this to death and Capt Charlie please if I am getting out of line I have no problems with shutting down this thread.
I would like to know if anyone disagrees with my statement about the candy bar?
Wildalaska you stated that OC'ing is dumb and makes us look bad. May I ask your reasoning behind that?
I know its rude to answer a question with a question so I will answer yours in turn. I do not carry a spare mag. If 7+1 of Horneday TAP in the chamber isn't enough then I have far more problems than just an ammo shortage IMO. Why do I carry a 1911? Well the short of it is sentimentle. My Father USMC a vetran of Vietnam told me many stories of that particular pistol saving his life many of times. My Grandfather USMC Rest his soul had many stories involving that pistol during WWII and Korea.
The long of it is I train hard with that pistol. I am comfortable with that pistol. I like its styling and features. It is accurate, It is easy to clean and take care of. I have had no problems as of yet with said pistol. It has a Life Time Warranty, I could go on and on but I don't think its on topic for this thread. I guess I carry that pistol for the same reasons you carry you particular pistol. I don't want to beat this to death and Capt Charlie please if I am getting out of line I have no problems with shutting down this thread.
I would like to know if anyone disagrees with my statement about the candy bar?