Toronto Mayor David Miller is asking Ottawa to ban all privately owned handguns. Do y

[STAGE 2]

I know for a fact that this isn't so; much of Canada, especially anywhere west of Ontario, would feel right at home in much of the north-central US. Unfortunately, Toronto happens to be the single largest population centre in Canada, and can almost deliver a majority government all by itself (imagine if the US was run on a strictly rep-by-pop basis, with no senate to balance things; California and NY would be passing the laws that every other state would have to follow).

Comparing a city in canada to a city in the US isn't valid. The two nations are not the same. Canada's pop is around 32 million. The US is over 300 million. Canada has two official languages. The US has (unofficially) one.... sort of. Canadas population is largely homogeneous. The US isn't. Canada's government is parlimentary. Ours isn't. We have a 2nd amendment. Canada doesn't. We have the NRA and other lobbying groups. Canada doesn't to the extent we do.

The two are just not comparable.

 

[SDC]

It most certainly IS valid; just as in the US, the vast majority of murders in Canada happen within certain specific cohorts, and they are almost always related to drugs and/or alcohol. Native Indians make up around 3% of the Canadian population, but commit around 20% of all Canadian murders (the primary reason why the Northwest Territories has a higher murder rate than any US state). Up until recently, other minority populations haven't been large enough to really impact those numbers, but Toronto has a huge (relatively-speaking) black population, that is largely Jamaican in heritage, and it is this group that is involved in almost all of Toronto's violent crime. In the US, young black males make up less than 3% of the population, but still commit around HALF of all US murders each year. Because addressing this problem requires admitting there's a problem in the first place, neither the LIEberals here, nor the Democrats there, are willing to do anything concrete about this, for fear that they'll be alienating a voting block that they depend on.

 

[STAGE 2]

It most certainly IS valid

No its not. Passing gun control measures in canada is going to be far easier than in the US for the various reasons I mentioned. The two countries have more differences than similarities. They just arent comparable.

 

[SDC]

You're not getting the point here; Canada is closer to a state like North Dakota or Idaho in most ways than those states are to California or New York. Yes, there are differences (just like there are differences between any two STATES you can name), but those differences pale in comparison to the similarities. You can no more say that Toronto is representative of Canada, than you can say that New York is representative of the US (or even NY state, for that matter).

 

[STAGE 2]

You're not getting the point here; Canada is closer to a state like North Dakota or Idaho in most ways than those states are to California or New York. Yes, there are differences (just like there are differences between any two STATES you can name), but those differences pale in comparison to the similarities. You can no more say that Toronto is representative of Canada, than you can say that New York is representative of the US (or even NY state, for that matter).

Thats your problem. You are comparing canada to a single state. That right there tells me that the two countries are not similar.

For the purposes of passing nationwide gun control, canada and the US are not at all alike. You can protest as much as you want, but the facts are on my side.

 

[SDC]

Would you be happier if I said that Alberta was more like Wyoming, Colorado, or Arizona, than Massachusetts or Illinois is like any of those states? I know this may be a stretch for you to believe if you have no personal experience of other countries, but there is as wide a range of thought in Canada (particularly on the subjects of RKBA and self-determination) as there is in the US. I'm originally from British Columbia, but I would put it at roughly equivalent to Oregon in most respects. Toronto and Montreal, OTOH, are much more like New York City and Boston. Unfortunately, because there aren't nearly as many checks and balances in the Canadian political system, that means the the population centres have much more "weight", politically speaking, than the vast majority of the rest of the country, which is exactly what would happen to the US if the Senate was elected on rep-by-pop.

 

[STAGE 2]

And all that is irrelevant. You seem to think that because several canadian cities have similarities to US cities that the two nations are the same. I already explained to you that the difference in government, the difference in our rights, and the difference in the culture regarding firearms makes our two countries black and white for the purposes of the "domino" effect.

Cities have nothing to do with national gun laws. Period.

 

[SDC]

And if that "argument" held any water, it would apply just as well INSIDE the US as it does outside; unfortunately for your position, every time ONE state passes a law restricting the freedoms of their citizens, those in other states point to it as support for doing the same in THEIR state (which is exactly what this thread is about, remember?)

 

[STAGE 2]

And if that "argument" held any water, it would apply just as well INSIDE the US as it does outside; unfortunately for your position, every time ONE state passes a law restricting the freedoms of their citizens, those in other states point to it as support for doing the same in THEIR state (which is exactly what this thread is about, remember?)

Again, you continually make no sense. The interaction between states (you know, those governments that are all subject to federal supremacy) has no relationship to a comparison between the US and canada. Yet another useless analogy.

 

[SDC]

What, you mean that anti-gun politicians in the US suddenly started paying attention to what the Constitution actually says when I wasn't looking? Feel free to stick your head into the sand as deep as you want, but if you think that this BS won't come around to bite you on the ass, the only one you're fooling is yourself.

 

[WINSTON THE WOLF]

Again, you continually make no sense. The interaction between states (you know, those governments that are all subject to federal supremacy) has no relationship to a comparison between the US and canada. Yet another useless analogy.

 

[WINSTON THE WOLF]

And if that "argument" held any water, it would apply just as well INSIDE the US as it does outside; unfortunately for your position, every time ONE state passes a law restricting the freedoms of their citizens, those in other states point to it as support for doing the same in THEIR state (which is exactly what this thread is about, remember?)

+1000

California, scares me. It seems like another country to me. and whatever those dumb a$$'s put into law there, Usualy trys to show it's self here.

 

[STAGE 2]

What, you mean that anti-gun politicians in the US suddenly started paying attention to what the Constitution actually says when I wasn't looking? Feel free to stick your head into the sand as deep as you want, but if you think that this BS won't come around to bite you on the ass, the only one you're fooling is yourself.

Fact: Canada doesn't have nearly the amount of gun owners as the US does, i.e. a powerful voting bloc

Fact: Canada doesn't have powerful pro gun lobbying groups.

Fact: Canada doesn't have a 2nd amendment

Fact: Canada doesn't have the same system of government.

Fact: Canada's judicial system isn't currently debating and likely to render a decision that will be the biggest boost for gun rights in over the last 50 years.


You seem to think that because I don't think the situation in canada is applicable to the US that I don't think we should be vigilant about gun rights. Thats not the case. We should always be vigilant. That said, because I think we should be vigalent doesn't mean that what happens in other nations is an indication of what is happening here.

And I'm not the only one who sees this either. From an australian point of view....

The US is not next- the situation in the US is far more complicated in that the US has both a Federal Government and States.

Secondly there is a strong pro gun culture in the US that would never tolerate confiscation- particularly after seeing prohibition fail.

Once again, the facts (and apparently international opinion) are on my side.

 

[zeister]

Toronto's Mayor David Miller

Politicians like this mayor are a threat to not only sport shooters but to other Canadians as well.
His morality is clear when you examine the firearms ban issue. He has the information about the failure of gun bans worldwide but has chosen to ignore it in favour of hawking a failed solution that sounds good at the gut but fails when examined in detail. This is not the first time he has ignored the facts in favour of votes. Don't look for moral leadership from this man or the political hacks that support him. You're right I do not respect him. Pity the Torontonians that swallow his pap and then have to continue to live with the urban gang violence. The number of gangs increases each year and all he can do is offer failed programs. They cost nothing but make him appear to be doing something. If he were Pinocchio I can but guess how long his nose would be.

 

[zeister]

Comparing Canada and the U.S.

This is a fruitless pursuit. As a Canadian, I can say we like some of your music, inexpensive food & wine, and some TV. Beyond that though, we prefer our system of Parliamentary democracy (needs proportional representation) and our universal socialised safety net.
That notwithstanding, good luck with your 2nd Amendment. We have our own home grown Fascists to defeat.

 

[zeister]

Mayor David Miller is true to form.

It is no use remembering the gang free times in Toronto. David Miller did not move to TO until 1981! In reality his memory of Toronto is formed during the rise of the gangs along with the accompanying rise in violent crime. He continues to focus on legal handguns because he is impotent when it comes to illegal firearms and gangs. The fact is the number of gangs has increased each year during the years that David Miller has been mayor. That highlights his lack of real contribution to crime fighting.