Top break revolvers in Titanium?

NAA seemed to have no technical troubles in making a tiny breaktop for the 24,000 PSI .22WRFM with today's materials. I wonder how difficult it would be reaching 35,000 PSI in a big revolver with big locking surfaces.

As the NAA example plainly shows, financial matters are another thing altogether.
 
Funny thing about titanium, it is stronger per weight than steel, but it is much more flexible and elastic.
Again, I'm not an engineer, but engineers have made turbine blades out of titanium for over 50 years. These engines fly across country thousands of times a year under tremendous temperatures and pressures. Tolerances are critical in this application, and the parts seem to hold up? I understand that these engines get routine maintenance, but I would venture a guess that one trip across country would produce more wear than the most dedicated shooter could produce in a lifetime.
My interest would be in a "modern" design in a top break frame, not a rehash of a 100 year old design.
I don't know if it is practical or not, but it would be a lot of fun!
 
No Market for modern Top-Break ?

A revolver that fires 45 colt and also fires 410 shotgun shells.
Who'd buy it ?
Well, a bunch of people (not me - but enough people).

A 22 magnum pistol with a 30-round magazine - who'd buy it.
Me (as soon as they offer it in a 6.5 inch barrel).

Semi-auto version of a Thompson sub-machine gun.
Who'd buy it ?
Well, a bunch of people (not me - but maybe enough people).


A modern top-break in 38 special, 44 special, 9MM, or ?
Me (if it was designed as a super-compact, light weight, pocket pistol - hence my inclusion of 9mm).

Advertising means niche products can be advertised all over the USA (I'd guess 60 to 90 million potential customers).

.
 
It has been so long that I don't remember if the turbine engines I worked on had titanium blades or not, it sure doesn't ring any memory bells, Regardless the vanes in a turbine engine are subject to a number of different type of stress factors, violent, sudden impact stress was not one of them. The information I posted about the clyinder liners in Ti cylinders is from Smith and Wessons by the way.
 
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Fun Fact:
GE (and others) use small amounts of Rhenium in their high-strength "hot parts" engine alloys.

It takes, on average, approximately 120 metric tons (264,554 pounds) — or the equivalent weight of 44 Cadillac Escalade SUVs — of copper ore to produce 1 ounce of rhenium

I think it's running about 5000$ per Troy ounce...

So be thankful S&W cheaped out on their Scandium Pot Metal gun frames :D

A modern top-break in 38 special, 44 special, 9MM, or ?
Me (if it was designed as a super-compact, light weight, pocket pistol - hence my inclusion of 9mm).

What if it was semi-auto as well (hint, hint...)

TCB
 
I'm always fascinated by the arguments placed after logical answers. Why couldn't they get a propeller aircraft to break the speed of sound? Why can't rifle barrels last forever? Why can't engines last forever? Why can't I live forever?
 
speed loader is the cylinder

While we are designing it, make it use shorter ACP rounds so the cylinder and over all dimensions can be shorter.

And make it so the cylinder can just be dropped out and another loaded on dropped in.
 
This idea crops up from time to time, and the whole thing boils down to "I want one, so they ought to make it and I don't want to hear any arguments!"

Two things are against it, one being the latch. There is always a gap (there has to be so the gun can be opened) and every time the gun is fired the latch tries to pull apart and batters itself. Titanium alloys are tough, but won't take that kind of thing any better than most steels.

Then there is the problem with cartridge length. Look at the old break tops and examine the way they work and it is evident that ejection will be a problem with long cartridges.

Of course, I already know the response - "I want one, so they ought to make it and I don't want to hear any arguments!"

Jim
 
Since top break double rifles have sucessfully handled cartridges at the upper limit of sane chamber pressures, its at least feasible for a top break revolver of sturdy enough construction to handle magnum level pistol cartridges.
Such a revolver would be massive.
 
Is Ti stronger than steel per in^3? I know it is by weight, but my understanding was steel is considerably stronger by volume, at least when heat treated.

The item is really just novelty. No one is going to carry it. As such they should do what they do with almost every novelty gun design. Make it in 22lr.
 
Titanium is not magic. Its claim to fame is its light weight, not it's strength. For it is no stronger than steel but is more difficult to machine. It would be easier to produce one from 17-4 stainless steel and be stronger to boot. The problem is the amount of hand-fitting necessary to make it work for the long term. The market is simply too small for a $2000 hand-built break-top that can't operate much above ~20,000psi.
 
A break top 357 or 44 mag would be awesome! I would be willing to take money from me retirement for such a a gun. :o

"I want one, so they ought to make it and I don't want to hear any arguments!"
hey that was my argument!
 
Every time I hear that top breaks are weak I think about the 10 gauge side by side my dad left me.

Bolshoi!
 
I think the design would be perfect for the semi rimmed autopistol cartridges- .25, .32, and .38 ACP.
The .38 Special and longer cartridges would be problematic with ejection.
Titanium is not necessary.
 
There is always a gap (there has to be so the gun can be opened) and every time the gun is fired the latch tries to pull apart and batters itself.

All previous revolver latch designs to the best of my knowledge were non-tensioned. A yoke simply wrapped around a post, or two. A spring kept the yoke in place, but the post (frame) still had some play. These designs battered/wore fairly quickly.

Break-open actions using tensioned latches do not have this problem when designed properly. An African game cannon has enormous bolt thurst, yet a good one will last many shots. This is because tension in the mating surfaces prevents a gap from opening that can lead to wear or battering. A latch/lock does not have to have a gap to open/close, just a spring.

Improving upon the old trunk-latch style frames would not be difficult, but it would be expensive. Unlike a modern DA/SA, a designer doesn't have 100+ years of production tricks to keep costs low and the product consistent. But the concept is far from impossible. The trick is designing the locking surfaces to remain compressed together harder than the forces shaking them apart.

Heck, my half-baked auto-revolver design can theoretically handle 90kpsi proof loads because I centered the latch pivot over the barrel (like every break open rifle/shotgun). The loads holding the action closed are so low that the cylinder axle can be used as the latch member, like an old Colt SA. Maybe I'll finally be able to get a proof-of-concept-model made by hooking up with these guys--or just panhandling over at Kickstart.com :D

TCB
 
I am a 357 magnum fan so I would buy one of these if they where priced about like any name name brand revolver of the same quality.

I like different guns
 
I am a 357 magnum fan so I would buy one of these if they where priced about like any name name brand revolver of the same quality.

That's the impossible part. Especially for a small shop or startup. Baikal had the .357 MP412 concepts/first production batch made with polymer lower frame elements (and Russian build standards, no doubt) which may have made them cost-competitive. But our arms trading agreement with the Russians in the '90s put the Kibosh on that dream. Won't no one touch it now (even though all the Xbox guys pined embarassingly for them after the latest COD and MW games :D).

I'm thinking my design, what with all its machined/fitted parts...~1000$ give or take, just to make the thing :eek:. Many times that for prototyping/testing/marketing/etc.--you see why it wouldn't fly;)

TCB
 
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