Too Much gun

BTW... that one has much prettier wood that the 50-90 I was looking at last night...
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It would take two of the worlds most renown wrestlers to get me to fire that one.!!

I'm really wanting to stay with black powder. I have several pounds of Goex 2F, Swiss 2F, 1 1/2, and a pound of KIK 2F so, you can see why. Getting smokless powder is nearly impossible these days. I looked all over and curry combed the countryside till I finally found a pound or two of H4198 for my 38-55 and paid a premium for it. Use to you could get that by IMR for a little less than $5 per pound.

I'm going to try a lighter bullet and lower the charge a bit to see if that helps but it'll take another week or two till my shoulder can stand things again. By then my LimbSaver should be here.
 
"Shiloh will cost me a small mint to rebarrel, [but] I don't have many options and
I'm considering that despite the cost...."
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DON'T !!!! :eek:

Just slip on a shoulder recoil pad as suggested above.
It's a night & day difference
 
ColColt,
Mr. Hawg Hagen mentioned it, But, I think it was kinda brushed over. If you can find a SecondHand/Thrift store, Buy a couple of
old wool Felt hats. Punch a bunch of appropriate size disks to take up the airspace and reduce that load!! A buddy of mine shoots 45-120
And I tell ya, He don't shoot full Tilt loads. :)
 
ColColt,

I think you have touched on couple of things that may be causing your recoil problem and the blood marking the rifle is giving you.

One for sure is the size and cut of the stock.
Even though you are shooting a 12 pound rifle the stock is thin and not making a large foot print, so the recoil is being received in smaller condensed area instead of being dispersed over a wider area of your shoulder.

I was going to recommend a lead sled shooting rest to you if you can use it with out skinning up that beautiful rifle.
I have a friend that uses one when shooting his Remington Ultra Mag from a bench, he swears by how great it is.

The other thing is the shooting position you described, (hunched over the gun).
I kind of think that maybe if you were in a little more straight up sitting position your body would not be as rigid thus letting you move more with the recoil, that may help some.

That being said at one time I collected old double barrel shotguns, had one in my collection that was a 16 gauge; that gun kicked like the proverbial mule.
I shot one shell through each barrel, besides it hurting like heck my shoulder was blood marked like I had shot several boxes of shells, never shot that gun again.

I talked with an old gunsmith about it, he thought the stock was cut wrong.
However as beautiful as the wood is in your rifle I would consider other alternatives before I would cut that stock.
As others have suggested, different (lighter) loads may be your best choice.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
I'm hoping to kill two birds with one stone. I've not only ordered the LimbSaver pad but also ordered a Lead Sled Plus along with two 25# bags of shot to fit inside it. If that all doesn't tame the recoil and put some more enjoyment back into shooting this thing I don't know what will.

There is some credence to my positioning myself too low on the bench. It's been many moons since I've shot from the bench and last time was a rifle nothing like this one and I had zero bruises or knots on my shoulder. The Sharps does have a very thin butt by todays standards and it's material and shape is not shoulder friendly. I'm going to beat this thing and try to get back and enjoy it. I've never loaded 20-25 rounds for any weapon I've ever had and came back home with half of them until now. That's about to cease. I just hope the Lead Sled lives up to the hype and videos I've seen. It has to be better that what I have, however.
 
If I were in your situation, that sucker would be goin' down the road and I'd be in the market for something like a 38/55 that would be fun to shoot. I don't care how beautiful that rifle is, if it hurt me like that I wouldn't be considering it fun.
I wouldn't recommend having it rebarreled by Shiloh either, as I wasn't too happy when I did that. I had a really heavy barrel and wanted a lighter and shorter one. They quote 600 bucks, but it will cost you a lot more by the time they are done. I had to call them back afterward and pay seperate shipping to get my old barrel and forearm back...they admitted that they probably had it in the back somewhere...but "most customers don't want their old barrels back". I finally got it and sold the barrel and forearm on Gunbroker for 400 bucks. I suspect they have a market for used barrels.
I ended up paying over 200 bucks just in shipping with Shiloh before it was all over.
 
I have shot some of the heaviest recoiling rifles in the world, and you are just a wimp.:D Just kidding brother. I have a .45-70 trap door Springfield with a steel but plate that is very similar to your rifle. I have a .458 win mag with a good recoil pad. That trapdoor feels 15X worse on my shoulder than the .458 Win mag. The steel butt plates on these type rifles, are in my opinion, pure torture. Anyone who even suggests these rifles are not painful, is more of a man than I am.;)
 
Another thought... The "rifle" or crescent buttstock was, I was taught years ago, supposed to be fired between the ball of the shoulder and the biceps, resting as it were against the upper arm, rather than on the torso in "the pocket" formed by the ball of the shoulder and under the clavicle.

I was taught it was a rifle designed to be shot from a standing position with the crescent out on the upper arm.

You are free to discard this idea, as I have no independent knowledge, other than instruction received as a callow youth... too many years ago.
 
Another thought... The "rifle" or crescent buttstock was, I was taught years ago, supposed to be fired between the ball of the shoulder and the biceps, resting as it were against the upper arm, rather than on the torso in "the pocket" formed by the ball of the shoulder and under the clavicle.
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I've heard the same thing stubbicatt, but I could never make myself try it.
I had a friend that had a 50/110, he was the one that told me that.
I can't imagine him shooting the rifle that way, he was not a very big fella.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
I shoot some pretty big hardware and will give you my 2 cents.

If you shoot from a bench use a gun rest that is tall enough so you can sit up straight at the bench and fire the weapon. If you have to crawl up on it to shoot it from the bench it will continue to beat you up.

If you shoot it prone, be sure to do it properly, one of my shoulder mounted howitzers was purchased from a man who broke is collar bone with when he fired it improperly from the prone position. One tip here is to be sure and tightly grip the fore end with your non trigger hand.

This also helps firing from the sitting position, hold the fore end of the stock TIGHT.
 
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If I were in your situation, that sucker would be goin' down the road and I'd be in the market for something like a 38/55 that would be fun to shoot.
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I have a Winchester Legendary Frontiersmen in that caliber and it's a lot more fun to shoot than the 45-90. It's like a .22 compared to it. If I had any sense I would have stopped after the first couple rounds from Big Bertha but you don't want to drive 20 miles to the range and fire two rounds so, I tried to endure the pain. I paid the price later.

Rebarreling it doesn't sound like a good idea from what Old Stoney said but, I had put in a message Lucinda at Shiloh to ask about rebarreling it to 38-55 or 40-70 and the cost but haven't heard back yet. I think I would like the 40-70 as 38-55 seems like a waste of heavy barrel/rifle going to that caliber and I have one of those already. I may end up spending another $1k getting it shipped and rebarreled, however and that's not good.

i may be wrong and a wuss about this but I don't think this caliber/butt plate configuration was meant to be fired 20 times from the bench like a 30-06. Some may be able to do that but obviously not me. I wanted to sight it in and test loads and I can't do that with a 12 pound rifle standing up. There no way I'd fire a 50-110 from any position. That would be like a 460 Weatherby, probably or worse. As Clint once said, every man needs to know his limitations!

This also helps firing from the sitting position, hold the fore end of the stock TIGHT.
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I wasn't holding the rifle with the left hand at all. I had my left hand cupped around the rear bag like I was shooting a .222 Remington Varmint Rifle. I'm definitely not going to cut the stock. I'll try the LimbSaver on the butt in conjunction with the LeadSled. If that doesn't help I'm out of ideas. I was probably the one that created this problem by hunching over the rifle like a target rifle. Apparently you don't do that with a large bore bruiser like this one.
 
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ColColt,

I assume you are shooting the rifle with the sights that's on the rifle in the picture, open sights and aperture sight.
If so maybe using shooting sticks from a sitting, kneeling, or standing position may be better then trying to shoot groups from the bench.
At least it may not be as punishing to you and your groups may be just as good as they would be from the bench.

I have a couple of old Savage 99's, (I know they are peashooters compared to what you are shooting :D) I tried shooting them from the bench with the sights that came on them, as that's the way I'll be hunting with them.
The 300 has a buckhorn rear sight the 250 being the oldest of the two has a small rear sight plus an old Lyman tang mounted aperture sight.

I was not impressed with my groups from the bench with either rifle but was amazed at the things I could hit with both rifles from field positions.
I tell you this as you may find the same with your Sharps.

Anyway, I certainly wish you the best in your endeavors.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
Looking at your blood hepatoma...it does not look like you have the gun seated back into your shoulder pocket enough. The gun stock should be mounted closer to you neck, otherwise, the gun is going to kick your butt.

I buy a Bag of Rags at an auto parts store, and stuff one of them under my shirt; in order to soften the recoil.

The blood thinner could be having a medical side effect, so I'd suggest softening up on the loads.
 
When I started reading this thead I thought to myself... It can't kick that bad can it?

Well...I'm still ptetty young and dumb so I don't notice reciol much. My father however is getting up there in age(70+) and on blood thinners. He's not the type to complain about pain, but I have noticed over the last few years his .62 cal caplock has been kicking his butt. Well not as bad as those pictures, he still gets bruised pretty bad from those 900 grain bullets over 120gn of FFF.

I'd bet it's just part of getting old, the blood thinners or both.

Oh... There's nothing wrong with using a recoil pad. They work well and to heck with the manly men, shooting should be fun!!! Unless you enjoy pain you won't shoot that gun and that would be sad.

Boomer
 
Tough situation!

I have a Berreta O/U 12 ga.Its the 686 Essential,26 in bbls.It made light.There is air between the barrels.I think I was using 1 1/8 oz AA Pigeon loads for a dove hunt.I was working nights,worked Fri night,drove a long way,had no sleep,and for whatever other reasons,I was placing the butt on about the same place and my arm(missing all the birds) turned purple,too.
With those light loads,my shotgun is not a brutal kicker,I'm suggesting that part of the arm is not good for recoil.

While that curved butt may not be the best,at least its not a Crescent like a Hawken.

Right now you have a very nice rifle that may not be a good fit for you.To fit a modern rubber recoil pad..to say it nicely,would compromise the rifle's value.

Maybe Shilo would have an option of making you a new buttstock on a more Creedmore pattern with an original type shotgun butt.

I'd encourage a more upright shooting position,and tune your position to place the butt on your shoulder.Getting off bench is a good plan,and sitting with crossed sticks may be a good position.


I recently discovered the P.A.S.T recoil shield as others have suggested.The work very well.The 1/2 in thick is what I prefer.

Going to Fg may help a little.

I would expect you will have some flinch to get over.Too much recoil develops bad habits.

Keep it fun!
 
To the original poster:

First, a bit of background. This is what I shoot:



This is a custom 45-120 Sharps, built by C. Sharps, from Montana.

Specs on the rifle: 30" heavy octagon barrel; long range rear sight, front spirit level, front sight with interchangeable apertures; double-set trigger, and (important part here) pistol gripped shotgun style stock. Done in a French Grey finish.





And, for the ammunition:



These were light bullet loads: 490 grain Lyman bullet. Now, I shoot three other bullets: 550 grain bore-rider with lube grooves, 550 grain spire point with lube grooves, and a 500 grain paper patched bullet. All of these are loaded with 120 grains of Goex 1F; compressed 0.60 inch, under a grease cookie (patched loads) and a sealer wad (.030 King's fiber wads, used for both sealer and overpowder wads.)

First thing--that stock you have will punch you. Consider getting a WIDER stock.

Next thing--it sounds like you are almost attempting to benchrest shoot the rifle. Don't do it! You want to pull that rifle in TIGHT. REALLY tight. Obviously, you so NOT want it to get a run at you.

I would also stop using the rear support bag. Put your support hand under the fore end, and use it to pull the rifle in tighter.

When I head to the range with my rifle, I usually shoot 40 to 60 rounds--because that's all the ammo I have with me at the time. Also, consider switching to 1F powder, or even 1 1/2F (Swiss) powder. It works very well indeed.

The idea of getting a PAST recoil pad is a good one. Best of luck to you--shooting BPCR is a ton of fun!
 
Hunter-Those are the sights I used but I've since that picture changed the front sight to the #113 MVA sight with the bubble level and better aperture inserts. I was using a Magnum Past pad but obviously it did little good. I won't say I wasn't setting the butt right but didn't shoot it any differently than I have the 7mm Rem. Magnum in the past. I do believe my rear bag was too low as the heel of the rifle was probably only an inch or so from the concrete bench. However, if anyone has the book by Mike Venturino on Buffalo Rifles of the Old West you can see on page 12 where he is in a position at the bench just like I was and I'm sure he didn't suffer the bruises I did so, it's a mystery to me why I got so banged up. Hank Williams, Jr in that same book, page 234 is as low to the rifle as I was.

I can't or don't want to change the butt and ruin the value. I have ordered a LimbSaver pad to try and it fits my Browning BPCR perfectly but a tad large for the skinny 1 1/2" wide butt on the Shiloh but, I think it'll work. I'm going to try the Lead Sled Plus if that don't work.

Powderman-No way would I shoot your rifle...this one's bad enough and I was just using 76 gr of 2Fg with the 530 Postell bullet with a Walter's .030" wad over powder compressed about .250" and seated to the lower part of the drive band.

Next thing--it sounds like you are almost attempting to benchrest shoot the rifle. Don't do it!
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That's exactly what I was doing-just like I was shooting a 30-06 or .222 for that matter. The worse for recoil from the bench I've shot was a 7mm Rem. Mag with 175 gr bullet...until recently. It didn't bother me like this one. I have ordered several pounds of Swiss 1.5 that should be here next week. I only have Goex and KIK 2F currently.
 
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