Too Much gun

The Lyman 49th edition lists a number of smokeless loads for this caliber. The reason Shiloh doesn't recommend using smokeless is that there is always some idiot out there who'll see how much powder the case will hold and how fast he can push the bullet. The gun just isn't designed to work at ridiculously high pressures and they don't need the hassle of fighting with that idiot as to why their gun blew up. As stated above, Trailboss is an alternative. I've tried it and don't care for it but it's very low recoiling. I'd suggest using 5744. As far as fillers go, they aren't that difficult to use. You just need to know the difference between a filler and a wad. I use fillers on some of my 45-70 loads and they work great. Go to the castboolit board and see the sticky on fillers by Larry Gibson. He's an expert on using them and it's not voodo trying to figure it out. If you want to try some, I can send you some pics on how to do it. Even though this isn't a 45-70, it can be loaded up with the same velocities and lower recoil as one. With the right load you won't get any brusing at all and will actually enjoy shooting the gun. One of my Sharps weighed around twelve pounds and had almost no recoil. I could shoot that gun all day with no problems what-so-ever. My Win 1886 at 6.6 lbs is a whole new ball game. Everything hurts in that gun except the lightest loads. It's still fun to shoot. Don't give up. This can be corrected with the right loads and a little change in bench technique.
 
You can't load smokeless in this cartridge
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Trail Boss is a unique powder, designed to fill cases that were originally BP.

IMR's instructions are to load to the base of the bullet (do NOT compress) and start at 70% of that measurement. In other words, if it takes 10gr to reach the base of where the bullet would be seated, start at 7.0gr and work up to 10.0.

As a point of clarification, the gun wasn't actually on your arm/body where those bruises are, was it?
 
As a point of clarification, the gun wasn't actually on your arm/body where those bruises are, was it?
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I got back on here after thinking about that. How'd the bruise get some far down your arm instead of in the "pocket"? Gun fit or shooting technique are part of this problem somehow.
 
I had the butt of the rifle against my shoulder. I bruise easily. When you get older(67) and are on three blood thinner it don't take anything to bruise you-a scrape from a bush will bruise my arm! You should see what it looks like today. It's worse than that photo and the purple has traveled down my arm. Blood travels in accordance with gravity and that's why it spread out and has gone down now about half way down my forearm and across the chest about eight inches. I can live with bruising it's the pain that was hard to endure. I'll have a knot on my shoulder for a week I'd say and won't be able to shoot again for at least a week or two.
 
ColColt, sir, after looking at that picture I can't believe that you'd even consider keeping that rifle! Shooting is supposed to be fun, enjoyable, a way to relax and sharpen our skills as marksmen. The pain I see in that photo screams none of those, but something else entirely:eek:
 
This is what it looks like today. From Saturday to today shows the progression of blood spread. It will continue to go south due to gravity. Looks like a car hit me.

 
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Lighter bullets, less powder.

From the look of your bruises, I would consider using a lighter recoiling rifle if this is what happens when you shoot it. As much as you probably want to shoot it, it seems like more than your body is capable of handling.
 
Bet you have more respect for those old timey buffalo hunters now.
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The thing is they usually were wearing a lot more that we were Saturday with the hot humid weather. I think the smartest thing for me is to go to a rebarrel in something like 38-55 or 40-70. I'd hate to end up with this beauty on the wall without being able to handle it.

I'm not sure about the light bullets as I don't know just how light a 1:18 twist would stabilize say a 375 gr bullet or a bit over.
 
I'm not sure about the light bullets as I don't know just how light a 1:18 twist would stabilize say a 375 gr bullet or a bit over.
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That twist will stabilize the bullet just fine. I had two Pedersoli rifles with that twist and they shot lights out with everything from 300g and up.
 
There is such a thing as to much gun. You just experienced yours. When you buy a firearm in hopes to enjoy it. And it actually punishes its shooter shot after shot. It makes no sense in keeping it. Even an occasional black & blue shoulder could lead to other/more serious torso ailments and specifically shoulder damage over time. Playing with bullet weighs may help or may just prolong the agony in your ambition to shoot it without suffering shoulder bruising. {Simple cure-all.} Buy another weapon that's more tolerable too your shooting shoulder.

S/S
 
Lot of sense in that post McGee and I have to agree. I'm just hard headed enough to want to still try a remedy as there's countless thousands my age, younger and older who fire these sort of rifles every day without looking like someone took a baseball bat to them and I think I may have found the answer.

In my searches today I ran across a device known as the Lead Sled...some of you know what it is and may have one. If the video on their website is for real then it will make this bruiser feel like a 30-30 instead of a 500 Nitro Express. What do you think?

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/vide...75&embedCode=Y2Yzg0MzpgyZS5PB0zustUSCHn1R8LD3
 
Funny you should mention a re-barrel... you may find that not as easy as it sounds... I was at my local builder buddy's house yesterday... "hey bud... what's that in the rack on the wall"... "oh a new Sharpes in 50-90, that the owner wanted to rechamber in 50-70, because of excessive recoil"

sound familiar???

this guy ( my buddy ) is a retired tool & die guy, & loves working on this stuff, & has all his life, but the cost of the rifle, coupled with the nice case coloring, & the fact that they must use some type of thread locker on the barrel, he's afraid he'll mess up the case colors if he has to add heat ( he can't get the barrel to budge )... he had intended on shortening the barrel & making the chamber 50-70... since he told the owner he didn't want to mess up the rifle, the owner contacted Sharpes, & they offered to change out the barrel for $600.00... that added to the cost of the original rifle, & coupled with the fact, they didn't sound like they were going to send him his original barrel... so... there may be a 50-90 Sharpes on the market with "low miles"... I wish I could afford it, it's a beautiful rifle, & I'm not too proud to put a decelerator pad on the butt stock, & cover it with a leather butt cuff... but the cost of that rifle is way deeper than my wallet right now :o

at least it can be said you have good taste in your "too big a gun"
 
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Holy smokes! :eek:

Your shoulder shouldn't look that bad even after firing a hundred rounds through an elephant gun! Let someone watch you while shooting, I'm 100% sure you're doing something wrong, maybe you get space between the butt plate and the shoulder just before pulling the trigger, there is definitely something wrong with your shooting stance.

Next time try to grab the forearm stock of your sharps with your supporting hand and push forward, when shooting from the bench don't lean into the gun too much, allow your body to move backwards so you can absorb the recoil. If you lean forward too much the recoil will go straight through your body and that leads to bruised shoulders.

For the record, I've fired many .45-70 smokeless loads with a 530 grain postell bullet at about 1500 fp/s off the bench through a heavy single shot rifle, the gun really pushes but I've never found the recoil to be unpleasant. I also never got a bruised shoulder.
(Though the gun makes me cry when I try to shoot it from prone position with the metal butt plate resting on my collar bone :eek: )

525grainmichaelpatronen.jpg
 
I have multiple "45s" in various cartridge sizes all the way up to a 458Winnie (which will give me a headache off the bench from headsnap with a dozen rounds of 500 grainers). But I am otherwise not sensitive to recoil per se in any other shooting position.

That said, my 45-90 Rolling block (525gr Paul Jones/85gr Swiss 1½)chewed up my shoulder during 55 rounds of a rambash exactly as shown by ColtColt's pic above. Turns out that I was wearing a coat liner whose company logo was embroidered exactly at that spot, and whose rough underside lay up precisely between shoulder and buttstock -- bad juju.

Similarly the top of the crescent-shaped steel buttplate on my Great Plains 54 will "hurt" pretty good -- again when snuggled up to it in bench mode.

One option that works really well in the latter case is shoulder recoil pad as shown below:
s7_224114_280_01

(Cabelas -- in particular)

I recommend it highly.
 
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I was hunched over the bench like I was shooting a .222 Remington with my front stand elevated about eight inches and a small shot bag, with the ears, holding the stock I reached around with my left hand to hold and squeeze the rear bag to vary the elevation from the rear I needed and right hand on pistol grip/trigger. I won't say there wasn't a slight gap between butt plate and my shoulder...I just don't know. I do know the heel of the rifle was very close to the concrete bench I was shooting from...maybe an inch or so. Perhaps everything, including front and rear bags should have been higher to keep me from having to hunch over as much as I did.

I haven't shot rifles in about 20 years...mostly pistols/revolvers and could have forgotten some general rules but as I said, i don't think I shot this one from the bench any different than I did with smaller calibers.

The rifle has a tremendous drop at heel and toes, just like the original but the stock is thin at about 1 1/2" at it's widest point and curved steel. Had it been one with a shotgun stock I sort of doubt it would have been as punishing.

That said, my 45-90 Rolling block (525gr Paul Jones/85gr Swiss 1½)chewed up my shoulder during 55 rounds of a rambash exactly as shown by ColtColt's pic above.
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That Rolling Block has a drop at heel as bad as the Sharps I can't imagine 85 gr of Swiss as the 77 gr of 2F was bad enough. I had a Navy Arms Rolling Block Carbine, half round/half octagon barrel back in the 70's in 45-70-crescent shaped brass butt plate. It too was a real kicker at just 6 1/2 pounds.

I watched a guy on YouTube firing a 45-90 from prone! That's got to be worse than from the bench and he wasn't in pain or flinching so, I have to wonder if he was shooting a lighter bullet with less powder as it didn't seem to recoil like mine did.

Shiloh will cost me a small mint to rebarrel, I'm sure but I don't have many options and I'm considering that despite the cost. I don't want a wall hanger. I still think in part it's the shape of the butt plate that caused the pain. Bruises I can live with but I'm not into pain at all. This is what the butt plate looks like for those that haven't seen this style.



 
gorgeous rifle... be ashamed to sell it or relegate it to a wall hanger ( though it sure is pretty ) I think I'd set it up with some Trailboss & your heavy bullets, & if that doesn't help, try a lighter bullet & load...

BTW... that one has much prettier wood that the 50-90 I was looking at last night...
 
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