Too late to start MA?

[Dusty Miller]

Scott, prisoners have tons of TIME to sit around and figure out how to thwart traditional martial arts techniques. Take literly(sp?) MILLIONS of prisoners over DECADES of time working on this business and you can imagine the result! The criminal mind is particularly devious and coniving, they figure things out.

 

[mk86fcc]

Golly, I hope it's not too late for you to start. I'm guessing your age at mid-20s - about right? If you're too old, I'm doomed. I'm rollin' up on 50, and am seriously considering Krav Maga. Another thing to consider is your motives - mine are simple - I want the ability/skills to remove myself from potentially unpleasant social encounters (for general fitness I do the gym and swimming).

 

[Ricebrnr]

Great posts and advice from all. As stated previously your mental prowess and agility will always be your most formidable weapon.

As a long time TKD practitioner, my biggest observation is that the more you learn the less likely you have to use it.

Find a good school and go train. The only thing stopping you is you.

 

[JRW]

Hey guys. This is my first post on this site as I am new to firearms, but I am not a noobie when it comes to MA. IMO if you want to learn MA for the mental aspect then traditional MA's are fine (Karate, TKD, Aikido, etc.). But if you want to learn MA to defend yourself then don't even waste your time with the traditional MA because they will only get you hurt in a real fight. All the blocking and spin kicks are fine when "sparring" in class or when Bruce Lee "fights" 20 guys in the movies, but they are completely useless in real-world fighting. When choosing a real MA all you have to do is see what really works in REAL fighting events. If you are interested in a stand-up striking art then I'd recommend western boxing or thai-boxing. If you want to learn grappling just in case the fight hits the ground then nothing beats Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu IMO. But of course the best thing would be to learn a hybrid of both styles of real, combat-fighting.

"Also; isn’t BJJ traditional? … and what about it as a training system makes it less vulnerable to prison trained attackers then say traditionally trained Aikido practitioners?"

What separates BJJ from traditional martial arts is that is has been combat proven. The founder, Carlos Gracie, refined traditional JJ by basically picking dozens of fights with people in order to find out what works and what doesn't. By throwing out what didn't work from traditional JJ and by refining the techniques that did work he and his family members practically completely overhauled traditional JJ and turned it from a traditional MA that was marginaly more effective than Karate, TKD, etc. into one of the most effective and PROVEN MA in the world.

Now I know I'm stepping on some peoples toes, and that is not my intention (especially since it is my first post ). I just wanted to clarify some things and state my opinion.

BTW- I should mention that I grew up learning TKD and Karate so I have been on the other side of the fence and know first-hand what nonesense is being taught as "self-defense".

 

[Scott Evans]

What separates BJJ from traditional martial arts is that is has been combat proven.

Don’t get me wrong here … but you are still being very general in describing why?

The founder, Carlos Gracie, refined traditional JJ by basically picking dozens of fights with people in order to find out what works and what doesn't.

What people … what was their training or qualification? When and where did such happen? What did these people do that failed (specific techniques please) and what did Carlos do that worked in countering? Was Carlos attacking or defending?

All the “this MA is better than that MA” discussions that I have seen NEVER deal with specifics of exactly why and how, in a given situation, they are superior to another. If you say “proven” rather then “in my opinion” I expect that you are able to give some real details.

What advantage dose a BJJ guy (or prison guy ) have over a Karate guy (assuming they are both advanced students and proficient in what they know) when attacked? What will the BJJ guy do that is more effective than what the Karate guy will do?

I’ll even give you the scenario:

You are walking down the right side of an 10’ wide hallway. In this section there are no doors … you can only go forward or backward for some 20’ in either direction. Coming toward you is a 6’ tall 220 lb male, athletic build 28-30 years old. He is wearing jeans, a T-shirt and biker boots. No visible weapons. As you and he approach he blocks your path. Your attempt to avoid him is countered and you are now unavoidably aware that he intends to do you harm. You are completely unarmed.

Describe the attack from here, the BJJ response and the Traditional MA response. Show specifically how the BJJ will succeed where the Traditional MA will fail.

 

[Any .45]

Now the main thing would be BJJ is mostly grappling, and takedown into submission techiniques lets say for instance the Jail guy your defending yourself from was a wrestler in high school and weigh 220 lbs of prison muscle. Is fast on his feet and has a good eye for people trying to get in side of him which most prisoner i've dealt with, that come into my school to learn martial ways, are excellent boxers and wrestler, 1: how do you in tend to get inside this person without getting knockedout 2: lets say you do get inside and you have him, expect to really get into a struggle most of these guys are rabid pitbulls and very strong they would fight till there dead or knockedout, since the man has wrestling technique he has considerably good knowledge of floor technique, can probably get away. 3: now he got away, is standing up and doesn't let you get close to him how do you get him into submmission and how do you win this battle....

As far as the Gracies go, Royce and his Dojo are people who have trained for years and took them years to master this art. and most the combat you've probably seen has been organized clean hardcore fighting in open space by Masters of an art. Who all eventually lost to someone. That had a diffrent style. who kept them on the outside.

 

[JRW]

"Now the main thing would be BJJ is mostly grappling, and takedown into submission techiniques lets say for instance the Jail guy your defending yourself from was a wrestler in high school and weigh 220 lbs of prison muscle. Is fast on his feet and has a good eye for people trying to get in side of him which most prisoner i've dealt with, that come into my school to learn martial ways, are excellent boxers and wrestler, 1: how do you in tend to get inside this person without getting knockedout 2: lets say you do get inside and you have him, expect to really get into a struggle most of these guys are rabid pitbulls and very strong they would fight till there dead or knockedout, since the man has wrestling technique he has considerably good knowledge of floor technique, can probably get away. 3: now he got away, is standing up and doesn't let you get close to him how do you get him into submmission and how do you win this battle...."

Now I never said that BJJ was the "Be All, End All" MA. A person, like the one described above, that is well versed in both stand-up and grappling is going to have the advantage over someone that can only do one style. What I did say was that it is necessary to learn to be a well-rounded fighter just in case the fight hit the ground(or if you needed to take it there). Ideally you one would want to learn an EFFECTIVE stand-up fighting style like western boxing or Thai boxing and a grappling art. My point was that most traditional MA's, the way they are currently taught, are NOT EFFECTIVE in fights against someone with some fighting skill. In fact I will go as far to say that if someone does have some natural fighting ability, learning a traditional MA would probably make them a worse fighter.

"What advantage dose a BJJ guy (or prison guy ) have over a Karate guy (assuming they are both advanced students and proficient in what they know) when attacked? What will the BJJ guy do that is more effective than what the Karate guy will do?

I’ll even give you the scenario:

You are walking down the right side of an 10’ wide hallway. In this section there are no doors … you can only go forward or backward for some 20’ in either direction. Coming toward you is a 6’ tall 220 lb male, athletic build 28-30 years old. He is wearing jeans, a T-shirt and biker boots. No visible weapons. As you and he approach he blocks your path. Your attempt to avoid him is countered and you are now unavoidably aware that he intends to do you harm. You are completely unarmed.

Describe the attack from here, the BJJ response and the Traditional MA response. Show specifically how the BJJ will succeed where the Traditional MA will fail."

Again, BJJ isn't a perfect art and will struggle against an opponent like this in this situation, but so would a Karate guy! Grappling in tight quarters is tough, but throwing punches from the horse-stance or spinning kicks won't get the job done either. IMO the style that would have the greatest advantage in situations like this would be an EFFECTIVE striking art(which is why you should learn both).

If you read my initial post and thought I was coming off as a BJJ nut-hugger I would suggest that you re-read it. Learning a hybrid style incorporating two effective syles is the way to go IMO.