To Laser or not to laser that is the question

Everyone is quick to respond with "it'll give you're position away! Your best bet is to get in your black jumpsuit, boonie, and black face paint and stalk your intruder until you have a clear shot..."

You're not on a military rapid deployment team, you're a civilian in your house. How about the fact that not announcing you are armed and intend to shoot to kill in SOME CASES can get you in serious trouble? Not every state applies the Castle Doctrine. Don't get me wrong, tactically speaking, I'm all for it and think it should be 100% legal.... but ambushing the intruder unfortunately won't help your case in court. Just playing devil's advocate, that's all guys.
 
I am in my late seventies, and quite understand your problem.
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I am in my early twenties and I understand your problem. If you're just wiping the sleep out of your eyes at 3 in the morning, it doesn't matter if they're 80 year old eyes or 18 year old eyes, they won't be as sharp. I think a laser would be a distinct advantage in any legally defensible HD situation. The sound of getting out of bed, opening the door, or even your footsteps would give your position away long before the laser will, and in any case you WANT an intruder to know that you're up and you have a gun anyway. Even if I'm within my rights in my state, I'd rather the BG see me and my gun and a red dot on his chest and pee himself and run away rather than sneaking up on him and shooting him without warning. On my duty rifle, there's no way I would run a laser even if I could because it gives away your position, but home defense is not the same tactical situation.
 
xjmox14x makes a good point. The intruder/assailant, in most cases, will have the element of surprise. Boxer shorts and white T-shirt are not the best for stealth.
 
You're not on a military rapid deployment team, you're a civilian in your house. How about the fact that not announcing you are armed and intend to shoot to kill in SOME CASES can get you in serious trouble? Not every state applies the Castle Doctrine. Don't get me wrong, tactically speaking, I'm all for it and think it should be 100% legal.... but ambushing the intruder unfortunately won't help your case in court. Just playing devil's advocate, that's all guys.
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I agree, Art; in some cases.

Knowing the laws of your own state are mandatory. Not knowing them can get you into some deep trouble.

But I'll still keep the lazer. :D

Daryl
 
i love mine...

i have them on my officers and commander grip 1911s (either my Colt new agent or my Para LDA. and before it got put on carry hiatus my Kimber Procarry- now the full size is on my bed gun)

i also have one on my sp101

and want to get one for my keltec PF9

i find them easy to use, and help me train around the house in point and shoot drills- and they help me exercise the dog!

it is a hefty price to pay for them, but search the internet and you can usually get about $100 off msrp!
 
Maromero, you do realize these things have a switch you can activate or de-activate by merely relaxing your finger right?:confused:

I shot iron sights 90% of the time, but have Crimson Trace on the guns too, and I have instictively learned without much effort at all which finger or pressure activates the light. I trust myself if I have time to aim well, at eye level, however if I have to fire it from a weird angle or a less than perfect stance, I am going for the laser. Invaluable. Go shoot a match with and without the assistance of a laser, it will take all of 2 minutes to "get it" so to speak. I'd rather have the unobstrusive laser there for my use if I need it, than nothing at all. SD wont ever happen in a gun range types situation where you have time to breath, acquire sight, push slow, follow throiugh, follow through....:(
 
I go along with what jdubya (post #4) says.
I have a four-dog alarm system; I will be aware of any intruders faily early on. No kids, no nearby relatives, anyone who appears at my bedroom door (note--not my front door, but my bedroom door) or bedroom window after bedtime is uninvited.

Any such visitor will not get the time to observe a red dot upon their chest, nor time to reflect upon the potential consequences thereof. Take that as you will. :)
 
Hmmm... the laser will "give away" your position, eh?

I believe this is called "lying in wait" in murder trials.

You have no business shooting someone without making your presence known. This isn't Modern Warfare and you are not a sniper.

Lasers have an "off" button, guys. Besides, do you really think they aren't going to see your MUZZLE FLASH while you are shooting them mere feet away?
 
I have CT`s on three pistol`s. A S&W 642,442 and Ruger SP101. Great training tool. Also doesn`t matter what position your bodies in you can feel confident your bullet will hit where the dots at.
 
A friend brought his wife out to practice here on our farm, before she went to her CC classes. He'd had the Crimson Trace added to the gun, a S&W Bodyguard. The first cylinder full of target wadcutters barely hit the paper, but by the 2nd group, after she'd learned what the red dot meant, her hits were the size of a softball and from 7 yds too. We went through 50 rds with her and she was phenomenal by the end of the afternoon. She and my wife were actually competing for group size!

I'm an old, some say very old, iron sights no matter what guy...have been for 50 yrs now. I believe the short gun was built so that you could do what had to be done with the other hand...ie, control the horse. Pretty elemental eh? I went to two hand shooting 20 yrs ago...wanted to see if that new method was just a fashion trend...get my drift here?

That said...I put a pr. of Crimson Trace grips on my wife's Chief Special, the one with the 3" barrel and adjustable sights....She's deadly with it...The only reason I waited a week to do it after seeing my friend's wife performance was locating a pair at a good price. Yep...they're pricey.

Shooting two handed, elbows locked to my hip bones (hip shooting) I had a 5 shot group that measured 1-1/4" from 35 yds!!!! That dot really tells you what you're doing with your double action trigger....that dot's a fantastic training device and a deadly complement to any, I repeat, ANY DEFENSIVE HANDGUN.

For those of you who think you can shoot at night...in a pitch black bedroom, half asleep and wondering where your kids are...you'd better try it sometime. I can tell you from long experience, hard earned 40 yrs ago, that shooting in the dark, be it bedroom, trench, or bunker is difficult beyond all comprehension. Ask any, ANY combat survivor.

Those Crimson Trace grips give you one he-- of an advantage, when you'll need it the most.

My opinions, yours can differ but mine are mine....Rodfac
 
I just want to chime in one more time here to say thanks to Rodfac for a great post. From a guy who is/was dedicated to shooting with open sights, yet realizes the advantage that can be had with a lazer attachment, his post says a lot.

Daryl
 
Batteries to go dead, switches to break or user to forget and fumble with, another mechanical link to go wrong, Too much light to see the little dot in some cases.
In a self defense situation NOTHING beats instinctive shooting and practice, practice, practice. At almost 63 I now do have "seasoned" eyes, but if I couldn't see well enough to be able to shoot instinctively, I would fear that I would not be able to see well enough to identify the target as foe rather than friend!
 
Batteries to go dead, switches to break or user to forget and fumble with, another mechanical link to go wrong, Too much light to see the little dot in some cases.
In a self defense situation NOTHING beats instinctive shooting and practice, practice, practice. At almost 63 I now do have "seasoned" eyes, but if I couldn't see well enough to be able to shoot instinctively, I would fear that I would not be able to see well enough to identify the target as foe rather than friend!
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Nonsense.

Nobody said you need to take the iron sights off of the handgun. They're still there, and they work just fine in light good enough to see them.

And if it's too bright for the lazer, you CAN see the open sights. If it's too dim for the open sights, you CAN see the lazer. In many lighting conditions, you can use either one.

A lazer is great for instinctive shooting practice. I can (with an unloaded gun) draw, point, and simply click the lazer switch to see where I'm pointing. After a bit of this, the gun points where I look without much thought or conscious "aiming" to it.

A lazer is great for dry-firing practice for trigger control. Simply activate the lazer, and watch to see if it moves when you squeeze the trigger.

The fact that it also acts as a low-light sighting device is a bonus, IMO.

I shot a rattlesnake last summer right after dusk one evening, when the light wasn't good enough to me to see the iron sights well enough to shoot at something as small as a snake's head. The lazer, aimed a half inch low and slightly right (to compensate for the close distance) solved the issue.

I shot a feral cat inside of a hen house recently, and couldn't see the sights in the dark of the henhouse very well, either. It was a dark, cloudy day, and the hen house doesn't let much light in. The lazer solved that problem, too.

And I've no doubt it would do the same if needed for SD.

In SD, instinctive shooting and practice, practice, practice are great, but if a lazer sight is added, it gets even better. It's an addition to the firearm that takes zero space, adds zero weight, and replaces nothing except the factory grips, while adding a lot to the firearms functionality.

On batteries:

I replace the batteries in mine about every two years. I test the batteries each day by bumping the switch as I holster my EDC gun each morning. It starts getting dim before it goes out, and I keep an extra set of 2032 batteries in the off-side grip panel.

If I notice the lazer getting dim, I pull the grips off, switch out the batteries, put the grips back on, verify POA with the iron sights ('cause I know where to aim with those, too), and I'm good to go again. The whole process takes about three minutes.

Next time I get to Wally-mart, I can pick up a spare package of batteries for it and then put them back in the off-side grip panel.

If you don't want one, then by all means don't get one, but don't bad-mouth them without having given them an honest evaluation.

Daryl
 
robhof

I got one for my M9 and love it. My 1st group with it at 25yds was the size of a softball and they got better after that. I practiced alot with it the 1st year I got it and found my natural point was good enough to hit center mass without the laser and not aiming, as with the laser you soon learn to place the dot and not worry about the sights. I practice with the sights more now as I tended to point and shoot with my other pistols and although my groups were relatively small, point of impact was different than the 9mm. As stated above no with the shotgun, point and shoot will get the perp if the choke is open cylinder.
 
G'day. Why would you not want every advantage you could get.
I've had a red dot on my hunting rifle for several years, just replaced it with a green dot as they can be seen in normal daylight (They are legal here). I've used it to dispatch an angry sow at close quarters in thick scrub. Knowing it was there at my disposal was very comforting.
Do I always use it? No.
Do I wish I had gotten one sooner? Yes.
Will I rely on them? No.
 
Dayrl, my point is don't RELY on the laser. For an experienced shooter who knows how to shoot in a conventional manner, the laser IS a viable and useful addition to their gun. My concern is with a nooby that thinks the laser is the hi-tech answer to everything. Kinda like thinking your computer will never crash!
 
the laser will "give away" your position, eh?

You have no business shooting someone without making your presence known.
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Never ASUME, for when you aume you make an !@# of u & me.

Who said anithing about shooting someone without making your presence known. Lets get back to that one later, ok.

"Lazer helps in a low light scenario" Really? You barely see at all because "there is a low light condition so I can't really aim well (read you don't know what your aiming at) and you are going to switch the lazer on. Bingo. Bad guy knows where you are and that you are armed. You still don't even know what you are covering with your lazer. You just lost a tactical advantage over the bad guy. This doesn't mean you are going to use your tactical advantage to execute the bad guy, as you imply. If there is enougth light to see the target and shoot you don't need a lazer. If there is not enougth light to see what you plan to shoot, don't. If you allready know the bad guy is in front of you b/c you can hear him but can't see him, turn the lights or flashlight on so you can see what is going on.

"You have no business shooting someone without making your presence known. " Every state has different laws, more or less. Consult a lawyer regarding this matter.

This is besides the point of wether is it a good idea to "clear the house" at the first sign of an intrusion or not.

Maromero, you do realize these things have a switch you can activate or de-activate by merely relaxing your finger right?
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I actualy saw that last night when I went to the armory to order a gun when I was shown a Kimber micro .45 with the laser. To be honest I didn't even know someone had shurnk the 1911 frame in .45 cal. Pretty neat. I can see instanses where the lazer can help but I just don't see it.
 
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