to float or not to float?

W

wjarrell

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I shoot a Ruger M77 Mark II in 30-06 with a Leopold VX-1. It likes Barnes Vortex 168 grainers. The picture is of 100 yards and I'm shooting from a lead sled. The first and third shot are together and the second shot is just above. Do you think if I float the barrel, the second shot would be in with the others? Or could it make it worse by removing the pressure point?
 
No, that was the first group of the day. I let the barrel cool down for about 15 minutes and shot another group. This time the second shot is lower and the first and third shot are together on top.
 
Shoot ten of those 3-shot groups. If they're all within about 10% of that same size, don't change anything.

That said, free floated barrels are best, but only when the receiver's well fit to the stock. Poorly fit receiver to stock issues often need a pad under the barrel. Zeros won't always be the same across different shooting postions.
 
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Floating the barrel guarantees absolutely nothing. Your rifle may or may not like it at all. The only way to find out if your rifle likes a floated barrel or not is to try it. Putting a pressure point back in, should floating prove a disaster, isn't a big deal. A wee bit of bedding material about an inch or so aft of the end of the forestock is all that's required.
Flyers are rarely caused by anything but the trigger/bench interface with an occasional odd ammo/bullet related cause.
In any case, a Ruger M77 Mark II is not a target rifle. And like Bart says, if it's consistently shooting like that think Rule Number One. If it works, don't fix it.
 
With only two groups to judge from my opinion is only a guess. I would, like Bart said, shoot 10 three shot groups and see if a pattern is constant. If the first and third shots are typically very close, but the second is not I would try some 4 shot groups to see where that bullet hits in relation to the others. If it is closer to the second shot than the first and third I would say your action is moving in the stock with each shot. Bedding the action cures that.
 
Every time someone shoots a really small 3-shot group, it happens because of one of two situations.

One is the shooter, rifle and ammo are really that repeatable. All the variables are minimized.

The other is, virtually all the variables end up cancelling each other out.

Which one is it for your tiny 3-shot group?
 
In my limited experience, sporter type barrels will frequently do better with pressure up at the forend.

Those are pretty good groups--what's that, maybe 3/4"? I'd be hesitant to mess with a gun that shoots that well.
 
With standard or heavy weight barrels most rifles shoot better floated, it would be extremely rare for one to shoot worse even if it isn't better. It is the pencil thin mountain rifle contour barrels that SOMETIMES do better with a little pressure. Even then it is rare.

Rugers however are one of the few exceptions. Ruger's are more likely to shoot best with even stock pressure on the barrel due to the different seating for the action in the stock.

Your rifle ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
 
I'd torque the action screws a little tighter and see if anything changes.

If you bed the action (or at least the recoil lug) and float the barrel and it gets worse, it's very easy to put the pressure point back in
 
I have one of those, if it shoots like that all the time then leave it alone like Bart said. Actually I have three of them 30-06, 7MM WSM, and 300. I bedded and floated the 30-06 just for the sake of doing it. It shoots very slightly better than it did out of the box, which was about like what yours does there. It was not enough improvement to be worth the trouble.

The others also shoot about like yours, the thin barrel tends to shoot higher (very slightly) as the barrel heats up. For what the rifle is intended for, its the consistent cold bore shot that counts. I left the others alone.
 
Depending on where the tight spot is around the barrel shoulder against the receiver face, any barrel, thick or thin, heavy or light, will start walking shots in any direction as they heat up. It's not always up. Such is life with untrued commercial receivers.

Thin, properly stress relieved, barrels shoot to point of aim as they get hot enough to almost melt solder if they're properly fit to a squared up receiver face.
 
Thanks guys for all the input. I'm not going to do anything to but shoot it! Like Bart said' "tiny three shot groups":D
 
Call ruger before you touch that stock

My neighbor has been a gunsmith for years and we were talking about free floating a Ruger barrel the other day.

It seems some years back he had a customer who had very nice groups (similar to yours) who decided to free float the barrel to "make it shoot better". Well, after the free float, the groups got much WORSE:eek: The guy called Ruger to complain and just by chance got Bill Ruger on the phone and described his trouble. Old Bill's first question was, "What did you do to the gun?" When the man explained that he had free floated the barrel, Bill's reply (expletives deleted) were to "send it back and we will fix it! When you get it back, leave it the XXXXXXXXX ALONE!!"

Not all barrels are designed to be free floated. Some shoot better with a pressure point and if you remove that pressure point things can AND WILL get worse. Some Ruger models and Weatherby Vanguards are among two that I know of where they have a pressure point "by design".
 
I put my Vanguard in a B&C medalist. It has two distinct pads in the forearm channel. The first loads I tried seemed a little sketchy, inconsistent though occasionally it seemed like it really wanted to shoot. I was tempted to sand out the pads but decided to try some more loads. I figured out it just wanted itself some Reloader 22. I have several old boxes of Nosler Solid Base 150 grain bullets. I shot two five shot groups today with them over the RL. One was.700" the other .750".

I think I'll leave it alone and load a whole box of those Noslers to hunt with.
 
The 20 or so rifles Ruger built for the 1992 USA Palma Team were great examples of poor accuracy and poor triggers. They used barrels from a company that specialized in black powder barrels thinking they were better than their own barrels.
 
My experience pretty much follows what jmr40 wrote. I've been shooting rifles for 38 years. I have never seen a rifle that was free floated shoot worse and my observations have been they shoot better. I'm a varmint hunter and don't shoot competition. Every centerfire rifle I have is free floated. All improved when free floated.

But, my experience has been with Remington, Winchester and Savage. Ruger is a rifle I have not spent time with. For a very short time I owned a 77 target and even it was free floated. It was a pretty good shooter but I didn't keep it long enough to form opinions with it.

When it comes to free floating I have a local gunsmith that I know do the work for me.
 
In a previous post in another forum, I mentioned that many Ruger 77s shoot best with a pressure point. I accidentally "twanged" the barrel of a customer's 77, when the action was in a big vise, It was hard to believe that an action could flex that much. Two things I discovered with that rifle: 1. A pressure point is necessary to minimize barrel vibration; and 2. I would never own one. (The MkII actions are supposed to be much stiffer and tend to produce more tack-drivers.)

One guy I know used a portion of a 20 gauge Winchester shotgun shell to make a pressure point in his old 77 and he swears by it. I'd use one made with bedding compound, modified to produce pressure at only 4 and 8 o'clock on the (analog) clockface. (Some younger folks are only familiar with the digital clockface. LOL)
 
A single pressure point on a barrel doesn't minimize its vibrations. It only changes their shape. It varies with the amount of pressure. That pressure's never the same amount all the time.

The muzzle axis direction and amount from the line of sight won't be the same for reach shot with a padded barrel. Only totally free floated barrels in receivers well fit to the stock are repeatable in this issue.

Some barrels are not designed to be free floated? That's news to me if it refers to those made for modern conventional bolt actions. Barrels for M1 and M14 actions are made to be down pressure bound to the fire end's ferrule; about 20 to 30 pounds of clamping force. The most accurate of the match versions will move bullet impact about the point of aim with different sling tensions slung up in different positions. That causes different pressures to the barrel from the fore end bending. Only when external forces on their fore end is repeatable do fired shots hit point of aim.
 
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I agree that it's not the barrel that makes the difference as to how it is affected by free-floating. It's the action, and how it's made/bedded that makes the difference whether the rifle will shoot better, or worse when free-floated.

However, I disagree that a single pressure point doesn't reduce barrel vibrations, but more importantly, the length, location, amount of upward pressure, and design of pressure points can make big improvements in accuracy.

Again, I don't generally use them, or recommend them, but a few rifle designs shoot better with them. I always try free-floating first, then if that doesn't work, try a pressure point. If that doesn't work, the barrel or crown is suspect.
 
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