Tips and suggestions for a new shooter please

D

Diogenes

Inactive
I recently purchased a used .30-06 Savage Axis to practice long range shooting with. I might have purchased a better rifle if my budget allowed, but it didn't so this is what I have, for now. I would like to be proficient at the highest range possible. Eventually I'd like to try deer hunting, but for now I'm just focusing on putting rounds on target.

I don't know where to begin. I understand there are a lot of factors that need considered for long-range shooting, things like the bullet's fall-off over distance, the atmospheric pressure / elevation, the wind direction, and humidity. But I don't know how to take these into consideration. Any suggested reading would be appreciated.

There is an outdoor shooting range not far from here I was suggested to pay $25 a year at to go shooting, that is probably where I will be practicing long range shots.

The rifle appears to be unmodified, it has a 3-9x40 scope on it and I put a bipod on the front. I think the type of barrel that's on there is called a 'sporter' barrel, it's thin with a taper. I attached a pivot/traverse bipod. I am thinking about putting on a Boyd stock, the thumb hole variety if they make it for my rifle. I hear of people 'glass-bedding' their rifle but I don't know what that means, maybe someone could explain the term for me? Is there any other modifications I should consider?

I bought a box of 150gr American Eagle FMJ Boat-tail ammo. Any other ammo for target shooting I should consider?

Thanks.
 
One of the reasons I like the Sierra reloading handbook is that its appendices have the best explanations for what you need to know about wind and trajectory with any of a multitude of cartridges. Buy, read and think; you can do that in the comfort of your home.
 
Before messing any more with your new rifle, at least get a book on how to shoot rifles.
There's quite a few from the military that can be downloaded from the web for free.
And plenty more from Amazon and the shooting mail order houses.
As per usual, start off with shooting groups at maybe 25 yards and increase as your skills improve.
Once you get the hang of it, the distances will increase quickly.
But without some kind of instruction, it's hard to learn much of anything.
Books are a great help, but hands on with an instructor is best, by far.
Also practice other methods, other than off a bench using the bipod,.
Not too many people carry benches around with them, especially for hunting.
 
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Typically long range shooting involves a longer and heavier barrel than what you have. You will get a shot or two off before your barrel heats up and things begin to go south at which time you will spend a lot of time letting it cool between shots. Your rifle is basically fine for hunting where one shot is taken and all that's needed. Repeat shots will drift as the barrel heats up and if long range is involved, that becomes a huge spread.
Long range shooting usually is done with hand loads tailored to the rifle used, the distances involved and potential winds. Some bullets and weights are more stable in windy conditions than others. Arts suggestion of the Sierra manual is good advice on that. Although you can be somewhat proficient at long range shooting with store bought loads, hand-loading will get you a lot more.
Triggers, optics and stock choice and fit all come into play so the best advice would be to do a google search on long range shooting and read everything you can. Make a list of what you intend to accomplish and work toward that goal with the info you find. Use lots of different sources as there are as many opinions out there as there are bullets.

I'm assuming long range to you is well past 100 yards?
 
Thanks for the replies so far

@Art Eatman:

Thanks I will find a copy and give it a read.

@g willikers

My family has more experience shooting they can probably offer some instruction, but I live on the other side of the state so I wanted to see how much I could do on my own first. In the past I've had good luck with self-taught instruction, but it was more of an academic/artistic focus. I'm hoping to get the math/science sorted out myself and then use instruction time to focus on technique.

I plan to practice from bench, crouched on one knee, and prone. I will see if I can find some of the military training guides, do you happen to know any specific document numbers/identifiers I should start with? Thanks for your suggestions. Starting at short range and building up over time sounds like a good plan, thanks.

@supercub

Yes, I don't think my barrel will be good for frequent shots, this was explained to me at the time of purchase. But the next step up with a heavier barrel was more than twice as much and well out of my price range. So I guess for now I will practice very slowly. I anticipate a minute or two between shots, does that sound like good timing or should I wait even more (or is that too much)?

I will read everything I can, that's typically how I approach these sort of tasks, thanks. I'll be starting with the Sierra .30-06 reloading manual as per Art's suggestion.

You're right, 100+ yards is what I have in mind. I would be happy with competency at 500 yards but ultimately I would really prefer to be able to hit targets at 1000.
 
"...100+ yards is what I have in mind..." Forget ranges past 100 until you can consistently group at 100.
The reference chapters in reloading manuals are great. Bit technical for a new shooter though. And most of what's there is way more involved than you need right now. Usually a good read though.
The military training guides are teaching troopies about hitting the bad guy anywhere on his person. Not the same thing. Target shooting and hunting is far more precise.
Jack O'Connor's 'The Hunting Rifle' and 'The Hunter's Shooting Guide' and/or Warren Page's 'The Accurate Rifle' would be better. Amazon has 'em for reasonable money. Your public library will have a decent selection of books too.
However, nothing beats taking a course. Look around for an Appleseed shoot near you. https://appleseedinfo.org/
And $25 a year is impossibly cheap. Club memberships are usually about 10 times that.
The AE 150's will do, but you really need to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your rifle shoots best. The price of it means nothing. Likely be best with a 165 grain bullet too. .30-06 loves 'em and when you get that far, they'll kill any game in North America.
 
"I anticipate a minute or two between shots, does that sound like good timing or should I wait even more (or is that too much)?"

That would be a good starting point, keep in mind, the warmer the day the hotter and quicker the barrel will heat up. Get used to feeling it and try to be consistent.
Another thing that will make a difference is the ammo you are using, not that much, but some.

Good luck.
 
That army manual looks solid.

See if any of the ranges in your area offer a CMP marksmanship class or a "Project Appleseed" class. By most accounts the Appleseed classes (especially those with access to a known-distance range) are a little better. Before you do too much messing with your rifle or even ammo the first step is to learn to shoot well so you can evaluate whether the things you're changing are helping.

It's much easier to learn to shoot well on a rimfire than on a big centerfire like a .30-06. It's also a lot cheaper even factoring in a 2nd gun. Shooting at reduction targets at 25 yards with a .22 may not be as sexy as firing off that big .30-06, but until you can do the first accurately there's no chance you'll be good at the second. Do things in order...
 
^^Yeah, that^^

Shooting a 22 rimfire at anything beyond 75-80 yards will certainly hone your skills with a rifle. I almost always take my rimfire rifles along to the range. If I can't shoot them at 100 yards (i.e. too much coffee:)) I don't even get out the centerfires.
 
I second what LLama Bob recommends. I always recommend to novice shooters who want to learn to shoot whether it is a handgun or rifle that it should be a 22lr to start with. At this level the firearm has to be looked at as a tool for learning,...your first step into firearms.

Learning to shoot a 22 long rifle is a great way to do it without breaking the bank. If you already have a limited budget and the desire to shoot, your ability to develop your basic skills will be greatly curtailed by the cost of ammunition. In other words you may not go to the range as often to shoot as much as you would with 22's because you do not have the money to buy bullets as frequently. A cheap box of 30-06 may cost around $20 for 20 rounds. For the same $20 dollars you get to buy 200 rounds of CCI ammo and get 180 more try's at honing your skills.

Shooting a 22 long rifle round at 200 yds is like shooting a 308 at 800 yds. Atmospheric conditions mimic the 22 potential like the 308 at those distances. Honing your skills at the range and learning good habits will be done easier with a 22 long rifle and your skills and habits automatically transfer over to larger calibers.

I would trade your rifle for a 22 . Remember that this is only my opinion. Regardless of what you decide you need to learn about bullet coefficient, trajectory, wind drift, bullet drop, etc. so that you than know how to dial up a scope to the proper distances.

When you buy your scope than you will be informed whether you want to go with a mil scope or an moa scope. Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world and sport of shooting.
 
Welcome aboard.

Mastering your new rifle is going to take lots of practice. An Axis in 30-06 may be bumpy for a learner. I was gifted a couple of tips from some experienced old timers, that may increase the amount of time you can spend behind you rifle.

I fill a new long tube sock with #8 lead shot. I sew it ridiculously with the heaviest thread or twine. I take the other sock over the filled sock and baste it ridiculously. If you put this between the butt of your rifle and your shoulder, it will in essence add #15 to the weight of your rifle. It will effect your cheek weld, but I'm able to accomodate the recoil of a 340 and 300WBY, much easier than w/o. These chamberings will beat the snot out of most shooters.

I like to test, and chrono multiple reloads at each session. My rifles, MKV and Vanguard are sporter rifles and WBY chamberings are hot as hell, I use Isopropyl alcohol on a rag on the barrel and receiver that I can reach, I use a bore mop and and alcohol down the bore between strings. This reduces cool down from 15+ min to 1 min. I don't care about fumes. I shoot grossly overpowered rifles and clean them with ammonia solvents.

Go shoot your rifle and save your brass. Take sensible advice and read up. Good luck pal!
 
I don't know that I would suggest trading for a .22, but realistically it does make sense to get one in your possession somehow.

In my experience for new shooters it generally takes 1000-2000 rounds of carefully directed practice before you get consistently good results out of the field positions. It'll take more rounds if you don't start with a decent class or someone who knows what they're doing (can they shoot 2 MOA from slung prone?) teaching you. With a .30-06, that's going to cost a minimum of $1 per round, and more like $1.50 if you want to shoot match-quality ammo. So you're looking at between $1000 and $3000 to get to the point of being competent.

Plus, while most people don't like to talk about this because we're all manly men, shooting lots of .30-06 out of a hunting weight gun is not really fun. It hurts a little. When there's a deer in the scope, no one notices or cares. But after an hour of target shooting, it sucks all the fun out of it. Worse the vast majority of shooters will start to flinch and anticipate the recoil because it hurts and there's a natural reaction to try to avoid hurting yourself. Which of course would never happen to any of the macho fellows on this board, but I've heard a rumor it happened to someone's cousin once :D Flinches can set your shooting learning back arbitrarily badly because nothing seems to work right.

If you buy a decent .22 - say a 10/22 carbine or cz 455 - with a scope to go with your .30-06, you'll save money shooting $0.10 .22LR ammo long before you get to 1000 rounds. So even though it's more expensive up front, you will save money and become a better shooter faster.
 
Thanks to all responders

@T. O'Heir: Thanks for the reading suggestions, I will definitely give those a look. I am reading the Army manual now, it seems a bit less than scientific in it's approach. Better than nothing though, and like g. willikers says, 'free is good'. It is. Regarding that $25 a year, yeah I thought so too, but according to multiple sources and fairly recent research, that is the accurate yearly rate. I suspect it's because it's an outdoor range that amounts to a shallow mud pit in the middle of nowhere. Maybe they make up for low rates by collecting spent brass, I dunno... I'd take the chance though, hard to go wrong for that amount.

@supercub: Yeah, I'm sure ambient conditions play a large role in the speed the barrel cools off at, it reminds me of some of my earlier PC days with overclocking in the summer (vastly different than using the same machine in the winter).

@g. willikers: Thanks a lot for the link, I'm reading this now, very informative! The writing style is umm, 'very opinionated', ha. I think the PC police would have a field day with that if it was published today.

@Llama Bob: Thanks I'll see if I can find any of those classes around me (Central Ohio). I have shot a 22 quite a bit, but I don't recall trying reduction targets at 25 yds, that sounds like a great excercise, thanks for the suggestion. I'll dust off my 10/22.

@brasscollector: Ha, yeah I think excessive caffeination could be a real problem for me, I live off the java. I'll have to make a point to cut down on range days. I'm not really aware of the differences between rimfire and centerfire other than where the firing pin strikes the cartridge, maybe you could expand on that a bit? You make it sound like rimfire is easier to shoot, but I don't know enough to know why that would be the case.

@ms6852: I think I might have understated my firearms experience. I have shot hundreds of rounds of 22lr, 9mm and .45. I wouldn't say I'm exactly a 'crack shot', but I'm competent. Problem is, none of those are exactly 'long range', which is my goal here. I'm not trading in my .30-06, you lose a lot of value 'trading it in'. Besides, I already have a Ruger 10/22. I just don't care for it much because it's underpowered and generally useless for hunting and minimally useful for home defense, and can only simulate long-range target practice. Plinking cans is about as much function as I've gotten out of it. Llama Bob's suggestion about reduction targets sounds like a good exercise though. I already have a scope on the 22 and the .30-06, both MOA. Maybe I'll spring for a nice scope when I can afford a nice long-range rifle, for now this is what came with it.

@handlerer2: Thanks, that's a great suggestion regarding the shot-sock. I was at the surplus store last week and saw a discount shooting jacket that seemed too cheap to pass up, it has heavily padded inner shoulders, elbow pads, for $12 it seemed like a steal. Maybe that will help a bit. I've shot my dad's .308 a bit and didn't find it excessively kicky, to me. But then again I use power tools all day (nail guns, impact drivers, sawzalls, circular saws, etc) so maybe I've acclimated to lots of kick. Also I grew up in martial arts and boxing so I'm used to some abuse. I'll make a shot-sock like you described anyways, sounds like a nice addition to my kit.

@Llama Bob (second response): Thanks, I didn't like the sound of trading in my new gun either. I already have a 10/22 so there's no need. The scope on it is pretty similar to the one on my Axis. As for the pain of the kick of the gun... gotta start getting used to it eventually, why put it off? Besides, I'm sure I did something to deserve the abuse. Some of the conditioning exercises we'd do in martial arts and boxing will probably pay off here, once you get used to counting prime numbers while someones kicking you in the stomach, it changes your whole outlook on discomfort.


---

To anyone reading this asking themselves: 'What, specifically, is this guy trying to figure out?', maybe this would help:

In feet/inches of the target, how much drop can I expect from 150gr .30-06 Springfield cartridge at 100 yds, 250yds, 500 yds, and 1000 yds?

In feet/inches of the target, how much drift can I expect from the same cartridge as above with winds at speeds of 5 mph, 10mph, 20mph, and 30mph?

What effect does atmospheric pressure and/or humidity play in the figures above?

Thanks!
 
Those three questions are all answered by a ballistics calculator. There's one online called JBM ballistics that is pretty good:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

The key things to make sure you get right are
- selecting your bullet (use the "Litz" marked version if it's listed twice)
- the muzzle velocity - use a chrono, don't just believe the box
- sight height above bore (measure center of bore to center of scope)
- altitude
- zero distance

If you get those right, the trajectory will be pretty darn close.
 
If any shooting aids needing to be purchased other than a scope, box of shells and a sling. This item should be #1 on your list. (link)
This bag is the best I've found to date for fine tuning any rifles accuracy to infinite distances. Knowing where your bullet impacts time after time without doubt builds confidence.

Bedding a bolt rifles stock:
Not only bedding but pillar bedding is the better of the two. Simply stated when correctly done to a rifles stock. A filler/glue like substance similar to honeys pouring is used to form an exact fit for receiver and barrel to its stock. "Like a tight leather glove to a hand." When completed not only Improves Accuracy but stock sturdiness also. I have in the past used (link) Score High products and found them excellent for the purpose of pillar bedding. But prior to my doing I read Score High's tutorial. Something I would promote ones doing before attempting any bedding job.
Just saying.
I don't own a Savage bolt and too all my rifles have wood stocks. Wood is a primary candidate for pillar bedding. Then again. Some factory enhanced composite stocks come pillar pre-installed. So OP you need to know up front if your stock is a candidate for being bedded.


http://www.dog-gone-good.com/tandesert601.jpg

http://www.dog-gone-good.com/

http://www.scorehi.com/
 
Diogenes, I think you are on the right path and getting a lot of good advice. Filter through it, a lot is as always, opinions, some apply, some don't.

You say you are in Ohio, I know a person there that is the secretary of a gun range, he would be one to know. I have no idea how close this facility is to you but here's their link.
http://www.alliancerifleclub.us/index.php/about-us

I love your comparison to the PC, my son is in IT and we have built more of those than I can remember. Heat is always an issue unless you are cold!

I have shot a 7 mm Rem Mag for 42 years, often 40-60 rounds at a time. Now, it's a standard day to go shoot 100 rounds of 30-06 out of military 1903's with steel butt plates. No pain at all, but spent a lot of years doing manual labor and conditioning is key. Good for you on that, it's not fun if it hurts and flinch does come into play at that point.

Bob's suggestion on a ballistics calc is good, especially if you get into reloading at some point which opens up a new level in all this. And when he says don't believe the data on the boxes of ammo, he's spot on. Even the reloading manuals are just guidelines on velocity numbers and rarely hold true. Different guns, different bores, different lengths, different chambers all work to mess with that number. What you want is something close and ultimately as close as possible to velocity from round to round...ie consistent.

Do some reading on F class when you have time as it gives you a good look at where you can go and how to get there.

Good luck.
 
I have been long range shooting for a long time. I have tons of books and videos on the subject.

I found one advertised on Face Book that looked interesting. I like gun books as much as I like guns almost. Anyway I ordered it on Amazon.

LONG RNGE SHOOTIIN HANDBOOK A benginners guide to precision rifle shooting, by Ryan Cleckner.

As I said I have tons of books, written by some real experts but I found the above book to be about the simplest, easy to read and understand, and covers about everything you need except for actual practice.

I'd give it a looksee. I've been a rifle coach/instructor for 40 years, this is my new best favorite for recommending to new shooters, and old shooters alike.

$22.79 at Amazon.

As to the $25 Range fee. That's the membership price for our club also, giving you unlimited access to our outdoor rifle range AND our indoor pistol/22 Range.
 
Diogenes, if you go to you tube, and type in National Shooting Sports Foundation, they have a few videos that could help you with some fundamentals of long range shooting.

I've been hunting with a 30-06 for than forty years and depending on the bullet grain and its coefficient they bullet can remain supersonic to 1500 yards, the same as a 300 Winchester before it enters the transonic stage.

There is an app that I use on my I phone it is called bullet drop, you can enter drag functions bullet weight, coefficient, muzzle velocity sight height, zero range, wind speed, wind angle, shooting , temp, humidity percentage, altitude, barometer, and will calculate, the velocity energy, path, drift, drop up to 2000 yds if you want it. It will let you know how to adjust in mills or moa. And best of all will store the data for any bullets you have loaded or use. Good luck and happy shooting.
 
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