Tiny vs Effective

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If I dont carry a big gun you dont value my life?
Maybe if you go anywhere where you have even the smallest chance of needing a gun, then your live must not be worth much to you.
( The main reason I quit school in the 3rd grade, I knew something bad was gonna happen eventually)

How do you know how many times your gun has been noticed in 35 years?

Typically cheaper brakes work better than expensive life time brakes, they just need replacing more often.

Whats big and whats "itty bitty"?
.500 S&W is pretty small compared to the .50bmg, but I find the .50 bmg hard to conceal:D
 
This is an old debate. I think we would like to have more evidence than rants.

For instance, I asked Gary Kleck - an authority on DGUs if there is a pattern of caliber related failures in civilian SD with guns. He said he didn't think he saw one or there is reliable reports of such.

It's the endless 9 vs 45, can a 22 be used used for SD, etc.?

Evidence, please. Not shooting jello but in the overall ecology of DGUs is there a useful difference in outcome probability based on the gun and round used.

Remember if you don't carry a gun because it's too big - then you can not benefit at all.
 
There's such a thing as a point of diminishing returns. Smaller is better for concealment, but once it becomes so small that rapid-fire controllability is hampered then it might be time to re-think how small a gun you really want. I can shoot my .32ACP Kel-Tec all day long, but the same pistol in .380 is noticeably harder for me to control in anything but deliberate slow fire. So while a tiny .32 may do well for ultra-concealed carry, if I carry a .380 it needs to be a little bit larger and heavier. I've found the same thing with the ultra-compact nines. A medium-sized Kahr P9 is easy to control, but I found the smaller PM9 to squirm too much meaning I couldn't shoot it as well. As a result I won't carry anything I can't shoot fast and well, no matter how temptingly small it is.
 
It's a trade-off.

Not everyone can carry a 1911 and not have it show. If I didn't give a crap about printing or having folks make me carrying, I'd carry a full-size with half a dozen spare mags. Trust me when I say that walking into a management meeting and having others know that you're carrying doesn't give off the right impression.

Carry what one feels comfortable with and/or fits with your lifestyle. Trying to impose one's will on others who do not hold your CC belief, ridiculing them, or accusing them of not valuing their lives is plain wrong.
 
I think here it's easy to accuse someone of carrying the smallest gun they can get away with, when they're probably thinking they're carrying the largest gun they can get away with.
 
I know a big gun would be more effective. I'd love to carry my Model 28 or 1911, but I'm also realistic. I know if all I had was the two above, that they all too often would be left in the house or truck.

So I carry a little 642 that's always in my pocket.

Regardless, big vs little, A small gun in the picket beats a heavy gun in the truck pretty much all the time.

I carry a gun because something might happen, if I knew something was going to happen, I'd be elsewhere.

A little gun would work if you put in the time to learn to use it.
 
Let's go back to how much your life and your loved ones are worth to you.
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This line of thought plays out differently for different people, and I can't claim to understand it.

I could use that statement as a rationale for wearing a bullet-proof jacket or vest. The same person who will use that statement as the basis for carrying nothing less than a 10mm will say that wearing a bullet-proof jacket is going over-board.
 
[Let's go back to how much your life and your loved ones are worth to you.]
Nonsense.
I wonder if the OP would make sure he was always with the wife or member of the family when they went to a shopping mall? If you would not go to that mall without carrying then are not the lives of your loved ones worth accompanying your wife when she buys shoes?

Why not hire a bodyguard when you cannot go? The cost might cause you not to buy the new car or gun, but how much is the lives and your loved ones worth to you?

Jerry
 
In my particular field in the military I could carry pretty much whatever I wanted. So I was never stuck with the imo completely underwhelming 9mil and 5.56 nato rounds. I personally would never recommend anyone using anything smaller then a 9mil and yes there are a huge number of cases where 9 mil and less have failed to stop a threat fast enough to save people from injury or death. Personally I would never carry anything short of a 45 from an auto or 357 mag from a revolver although there are plenty of cases of 357 failing to stop a threat in a timely enough fashion. 45acp has failed to stop a threat quickly as well but its served me well over the years. Anyone who says the smaller acp's do not fail to stop a threat on a disproportionate rate to larger caliber ones is being intellectually dishonest or outright lying to you

9mil is a great carbine round for situations where you can take the time to accurately place your shot. In the heat of battle it does not cut the mustard for me.
 
One has to remember that the average civilian DGU isn't a military combat situation.

Your goal in the civilian world is to save your butt as compared to eliminating the enemy.

Thus, you need to consider that having a suboptimal caliber in terms of 'stopping power' (if any handgun is such) can be used to:

1. Deter by simple gun presence
2. Putting a round in the BG which causes criminal activity to cease as compared to having the BG to cease existence on this dimensional plane

as well as functionally disabling him.

As we know from the crime data - most guns can accmomplish 1 and 2 at very high rates.

Now, if Glenn lands at a Mumbai or Columbine horror show - even my normal carry of a Glock and extra mags seems small. Where is the USS Iowa?
 
One has to remember that the average civilian DGU isn't a military combat situation.
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Glenn,

Everyone seems to forget this. It is THE critical point. It is possible that 5 angry and well armed thugs will attack you. But pretty damn unlikely.

I like to say they we're not cops. We're just not (unless we are). My responsibility is different than that of an LEO or a GI. And the likelihood of me needing more than 7 rounds of .32 ACP is exponentially slim- although I do carry 7 rounds of .380 ACP because there is no "fitness cost" to that larger caliber. If I lived in Texas and could open carry and carry at work, I'd have a police duty weapon and 2 extra mags strapped to my belt. But that does not work for most people. The "one-stop" caliber argument always drives me crazy. If I needed a one-stop caliber, I'd tote my M1A around with me. It would solve all my problems out to 300 yards with one shot.
 
I disagree for the most part in both the military and law enforcement I was taught to shoot to stop the threat. Some instructors were of the kill em all mentality but it was fewer then ya might think. In a battle situation a wounded soldier is more of a detriment to the unit then a dead one so killing Is not the main objective. No matter what situation you're in shooting center mass to stop the threat should be your main objective.
 
If I lived in Texas and could open carry and carry at work,
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Then you'd either be an LEO or work in a gunshop...

You cannot open carry pistols in Texas in public legally. And walking around with a rifle at WalMart is going to raise more than a few eyebrows.

Aside from that it's the OK Coral in Tejas.

Merry Christmas Swampy. ;)
 
I disagree for the most part in both the military and law enforcement I was taught to shoot to stop the threat.
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But the point is, I am not in the military or in law enforcement. My job is to get out of Dodge alive, not enforce law and order. All I have to do is stay alive, it does not matter what I do to the BG as long as me and my own can crawl away. And although we may be on the edge of western civilization, laws still rule our civilization. This is not Afghanistan. If I TRY to enforce law and order, I go to jail- because I am not the arm of the law. If a cop does it, he gets a slap on the wrist. And maybe a promotion. I have cops and detectives in the family, I know how this all works...

You cannot open carry pistols in Texas in public legally. And walking around with a rifle at WalMart is going to raise more than a few eyebrows.
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Regardless of the actual law in Texas, most of us in the rest of the US perceive Texas as the wild-wild west. Arizona is probably closer to that stereotype but there has always been something cowboy-romantic about Texas. Frankly, I can't think of a prettier word in the English language than "Texas". Well, except for "West Virginia". I love that place....
 
I hate when the original poster comes back and deletes their original post.

It's like nothing makes sense in the thread after that.
 
On days when I can, I carry either a K357 or a .45 service auto, along with one or two reloads. On heavy coat days, I will often add a S&W 442 to an outside coat pocket, for ease of access.

However, on really hot or dress restrictive days, I don't feel woefully under-equipped with just the 442 and a couple TUFF strips. I would prefer a bigger, more shootable handgun and more ammunition, but my preference can't always be indulged.

Note that I practice often with the 442, typically a box or two of 158s every two or three weeks. While I mostly practice at 7 yards, I do sometimes shoot at 15 or even 25 yards with it, and still get a good hit rate. I try to practice 1/2 to 1/3 with my weak hand, as the 442 in BUG / coat pocket mode is in my weak side pocket.

But although I can shoot the 442 well, I will never shoot it as accurately, quickly as I can a full size revolver or auto.
 
Thus, you need to consider that having a suboptimal caliber in terms of 'stopping power' (if any handgun is such) can be used to:

1. Deter by simple gun presence
2. Putting a round in the BG which causes criminal activity to cease as compared to having the BG to cease existence on this dimensional plane
Click to expand...

If the day comes when I "consider" that my gun can be used to deter a criminal by it's mere presence as any manor of tactics, or that putting one round in Bubba from a mouse gun will cause him to cease hostilities, then I hope some body kicks me in the butt real hard--right after they slap me upside the head.

Yes, the gun in it's self MAY be a deterent--for any RATIONAL assailant--and it may not be. Good luck with Johnny methhead.

As for a hit most anywhere from a sub caliber, I'd be more afraid I'd make him mad and incurr his wrath than it being likely the shot would take the fight out of him.

Some knowledeable people, who don't agree with the mousegun deterrent theory, would recommend filing the sights off your little .25 or .32 auto. I'd recommend waxing it up real nice, also.;)
 
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A .22 looks small, until someone points one at you.

I'd be willing to bet, not many of the 'go big, or go home crowd', would want to test their theories by charging a loaded .22, .25., .32 etc.
 
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