Tiny 9s: Comparing all the quality subcompact 9mms for smallest & lightest

there are many sub-compact 9mm pistols. however IMNSHO there aren't many GOOD sub-compact pistols.

1. don't know much about steyr
2. they even make this gun in a .45 thats just a little bigger. .40 is the same size. also i don't trust taurus's just from my experiences. not reliable in my experiences with them
3. kahrs are good guns and the MK9 is probably the smallest 9mm available
4. about the same size as kahrs but a little bigger. i don't see any advantage it has. also has a worse trigger.
5. good gun (get back to it later in post)
6. Sig 239. slim single stack. 8 rounds in 9mm. on the big and heavy side though.
7. kel-tec. i wouldn't trust these because the company isn't that well known and i hear they aren't that reliable.
8. S&W CS9. i wouldn't buy any S&W ever again
9. i can't think of any more now

ok now i'll say which i think are worth getting. Kahrs, glocks, possibly sig although probably too big for what you want.

I think the Kahr MK9 or P9 is the best for you. the P9 has the barrel lenght you want (3.5) and has the capability you want (7+1) and its lighter than the Glock 27

the MK9 is the smallest 9mm i know of and its also the slimmest. it is 1 of the only true pocket 9mms available. most other sub-compacts are double stack 10 rounders and they are pretty wide

oh yeah another choice is the new beretta 9000. it's a sub-compact 10round polymer framer that acepts 15round 92FS mags. next week on friday i will most likely see one of the 9000s when i'm at the beretta factory in Maryland and if i do i will write up a post about it and whatever else i see to let ya guys know whats in store for you.

go with the Glock 26 or Kahr. they are the best made, most reliable ones out there. and kahrs are known for haveing exteemly good triggers.
 
I know you are talking about 9mm but I have a Kahr MK40 and absolutely love it. Yeah, it's heavy, but I carry it IWB, yet its so small even with a holster I can slip it into my pocket in a pinch.

When I first bought the gun I was unhappy, it jammed too frequently. I sent it back to Kahr, GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE. The gun I got back is AWESOME, at 10 yards I group with it as good as I do a Colt Officer's model in .45, maybe even better. I sweat alot, so the gun rust a little, but after a bit of turtle wax chrome polish, no problem with rust. If you have any problems with the Kahr P9 I am sure Kahr would make it right. But kahr is expensive, having said that, if I could come up with the money, I would buy a Kahr for my wife, and the P9 just to try it out until they come up with a P40. I am almost hoping that they will come out with a MK357sig :)

DaHaMac
 
Russel, I gotta disagree with you on the KelTec. I own 2 and they are utterly reliable. I am biased,though. The company is gettin' a lot of attention due to the concealed carry laws in a lot of states but there are some places where you don't see them often.

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Knock twice. Rap with your cane. Feels nice. You're out of the rain. We got your skinny girls. Here at the Western World
from Steely Dan's "Western World"
 
I have had a pocket nine for about a year now and have had no problems with it. The trigger pull is very stiff, this is the only drawback to this gun. Colt was suppose to come out with a model with a tuned trigger on it. I would try to get the newer model if it is available. Other than the trigger it is a fine self defence handgun.


Later
Daren
 
After having read all of these posts, and thinking a lot about this, I've come to a conclusion:
If Kahr came out with a polymer MK9, I'd probably break a leg rushing out to get it. (even though I like to wait a while) Down here in Florida, I just about live in shorts. That gun would be SO easy to use as a shorts gun!

I THINK that import laws stop an overseas manufacturer from importing a really small CCW gun. Remember, Glock has a gun in .380, but can't import it. So I don't think that the Steyr gun will be very small.

There is one option that hasn't been mentioned yet, an that is a 38 stubby. I've carried a Taurus Ultralite for a while. I had to stop because it started to have problems. When I get it back from Taurus, I might end up carrying it again. MAYBE the perfect carry gun has already been made. Have any of you held one of the S&W Ti stubbies? They are REALLY light. And the 38 stubby works very well as a pocket gun. While only five shots and slow to reload, these guns would probably be all that the normal CCW civilian needs. Of course, I won't be buying any more S&W guns, but if the Taurus Ti guns are made well, this is a definate option. However, since I've had problems with my Ultralite, I can't in good conscience recommend one of their wheel guns. And I don't like the idea of a ported carry gun...
 
The Kahr MK9 is bit heavy, but it is SMALL. It carries quite easily in the pocket (docker style pants). It must be holstered! That trigger is just too slick to be left exposed.

Get an Uncle Mikes #2 Sidekick pocket holster. Cut about 1/2 inch of the nylon thread at the back to allow for the MK9's trigger guard. Stitch some re-inforcement or the thread may come completely undone.

To carry when walking, because of it's weight, put your hand in your pocket, wrap the index and middle finger around the grip, and put your thumb on top of the rear sight.

Works good and you will look like a proper gentlemen as well. Nothing but the gun and holster goes in that pocket and I mean nothing. Weak or strong side depends on you.

Try it.
 
I have a Kel-Tec P11 and absolutely love it. The DAO trigger is long. However,
that is exactly what I want in a 'loaded' carry handgun. It is very light, extremely easy to take down, and has fired EVERY single time I've pulled the trigger except the second round I shot and that was my error (limp-wristing). The one factor to get used to is the muzzle-flip. When you get this light/small and are firing a decent size round (9mm) you can't expect the lil sucka not to jump a bit. But once you get used to it, it's a lot of fun to shoot. NO, it's not the smoothest, slickest, fanciest, or most expensive thing out there, but that's not what it's designed for. As far as Kel-Tec itself, they have been utterly superb in their Customer Service. Also, with the belt-clip, this lil guy is almost invisible inside a pocket/waistband. Fire and test one and I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Good luck!

-Topher

[This message has been edited by Topherocity (edited April 09, 2000).]
 
One thing that has tempted me to get a Kel-Tec is the number of times I have read stellar reviews about their customer service. One thing that keeps me from getting a Kel-Tec is the number of times I read stellar reviews about their customer service.

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Lazarus


[This message has been edited by Laz (edited April 09, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Laz (edited April 09, 2000).]
 
Hi Futo,

You might want to keep your eyes open for what I'm considering for the same for a friend......

Since the K9 Kahr is heavier than you'd like, you might want to check out the new Kahr P9. It's only 18oz tot. w/empty mag. I'm waiting for them to make it to the local shops, before making a decision. They are on the market however.

Best wishes,

robert

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
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"Reasonable gun law?............There's No such critter!" --EQ
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Futo Inu:

5. Glock 26 - Yes, I may even consider trading in the 27 for a 26, just for Kb concerns and milder recoil and cheaper to practice with - should I if none of the above satisfy the requirements? If I can't get something that will be small enough to conceal in a large pocket (let's say dress pants), then I may as well stick with the G26 or 27 seems to me, since I'll have to use another form of concealment besides an ordinary pocket.[/quote]
Futo,
I think that you should just stick with the G27 you have. I just got a G26, and I think that it is the best CCW gun ever. I carry mine in the pocket with no problems whatso ever. The two guns are built on the same frame, so one should conceal just as well as the other. Why go looking for Volkswagons when you already have a BMW in your driveway,MMMMM?
Just my two cents worth.
Dennis



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BOYCOTT SMITH AND WESSON!!!
Defend the Constitution from the foreign threat!!!!
 
I, too, have had superb experiences with my Kel Tec P-11. My only criticism is that I wish it were a single-collumn and thus thinner. At 10+1 rds for well under a pound, it's the most for the weight and the size out there. Perceived recoil from a P-11 9mm is substantially less than an AMT Backup in .380, due to improved ergonomics of the pistol.

The P-32 uses a very different spring system than the P-11. Although I'm REALLY impressed with the tiny size (cigarette pack) and weight (9.2 oz loaded) of the P-32, I'm not sold on the reliability yet-- they're striker fire rather than hammer fired, and do NOT have a repeat-strike capability if you encounter a hard primer.

Of the rest, I leave it to those who know them better than I do... :)
 
I've never quite figured out why people are so enamored with a double strike option on a defensive carry pistol. If I have a misfire in a defensive encounter, I want to do the thing that's most likely to chamber a fresh working round, not something that's more likely to just take time and result in another "click". If you have tested your carry ammo sufficiently, it's very unlikely that you'll suddenly run across a round that doesn't fire, and will with a second strike. If that happens, I for one want a fresh round in the chamber for the next attempt.
 
I'm with John Will on the double strike thing. If I have a misfire, I do the tap, rack, bang drill. While I have had misfires with rimfire cartridges (specifically .22lr), I've never had a misfire with a centerfire cartridge. If I have a misfire, even if I had second strike capability, I wouldn't sit there pulling the trigger, hoping the cartridge would go off. I'd do a tap, rack, bang drill and get back into the fight. Jared
 
johnwill & M1911, if you ever had to rapidly fire in self defense, your finger usually pulls the trigger before the brain realizes that a misfire has occurred because your body is doing a repeated action and will continue to do so until is told otherwise by the brain. I agree that once you realize a misfire has happened, you consciously clear it but if your gun has a repeat striker capability, chances are you'll use it before your mind is even aware of it and sometimes a second tap is all that is needed.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
TFL-flame.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FUD:
johnwill & M1911, if you ever had to rapidly fire in self defense, your finger usually pulls the trigger before the brain realizes that a misfire has occurred because your body is doing a repeated action and will continue to do so until is told otherwise by the brain. I agree that once you realize a misfire has happened, you consciously clear it but if your gun has a repeat striker capability, chances are you'll use it before your mind is even aware of it and sometimes a second tap is all that is needed.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
TFL-flame.gif
[/quote]

Even if that's true, I still stand by my comment that double strike is hardly a show stopper. IMO, it's very rare that a double strike with quality ammo and a qun that's in good working condition will ever solve anything. It's far more likely that you'll have a feed stoppage, and if you don't automatically to the RAP, TAP, BANG drill, you'll just be wasting time in most cases. I don't view the double strike capability as a drawback, but I certainly wouldn't recommend training to use it.
 
Well, FUD, that's where we disagree. As I mentioned, I've never had a misfire with centerfire ammo. I've had plenty of malfunctions, mostly feed failures but a couple of stovepipes. So if it fails to go bang, in general I doubt that pulling the trigger again is going to do anything to solve the problem.

While I haven't fired in self defense (and pray that I never have to), I have fired under stress and time pressure. One of those situations occured during the qualification test at LFI-1. In the second string of fire, I had a failure to feed. That string of fire was 6 rounds in 6 seconds, one-handed. I had a failure to feed on the 5th round. I suspect that failure was due to the combination of a dirty gun (end of the day) and a limp-wristing. Since it was a failure to feed and the slide was out of battery, there was no way to pull the trigger. That, plus the odd feel when the slide didn't completely cycle, gave me a pretty clear indication that I needed to do a tap-rack-bang drill. I did the drill and fired the last shot within time. All 5 of my fired shots were in the A zone.

I don't think a second-strike gives an measureable advantage (and may, just possible, give a slight disadvantage). So, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Jared
 
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