Tiny 9s: Comparing all the quality subcompact 9mms for smallest & lightest

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Futo Inu

New member
OK, we know that many makers have compact 9s with .40s in the same size, and we know Seecamp recently even packed a .380 auto gun into sub-sub-compact (mouser) somehow. But since I am looking to the future to the smallest 9x19P possible (my personal "minimum" caliber for an all-the-time defense pistol), I want to compare pistols of those makers who have made or are going to make 9mms in the smallest, most concealable package possible, but with at least a 3.25" bbl and 7+1 cap, and forget about keeping the frame large/strong enough to house a .40 in the same frame - that's too much trade-off in size, IMO. I've already got a Glock 27 in .40, which is a great little gun, but I will trade it if I find what I want - an even smaller, and as light or lighter (if possible) than the G26/27.

So has anyone compared or obtained hearsay or tech data, for size/weight, quality, reliability, etc., the following:

1. Steyr "S" Series 9mm - (not yet available I don't think) - I'm thinking they didn't go as small as possible because I believe the S will be offered in a 40 with same external dimensions. But I handled and REALLY liked a Steyr "M" in .40. Anyone know how much smaller the "S" is? And what about the fabled "XS"? Will it be forthcoming?
2. Taurus Millenium 9mm - Do they have a subcompact in this new pistol? Or is is the same size as the .40?
3. Kahr MK9 (I handled this one and liked it a lot but it didn't seem much smaller than my G27 and certainly no lighter).
4. Colt Pocket Nine (I don't think these will even be available since they're not being made).
5. Glock 26 - Yes, I may even consider trading in the 27 for a 26, just for Kb concerns and milder recoil and cheaper to practice with - should I if none of the above satisfy the requirements? If I can't get something that will be small enough to conceal in a large pocket (let's say dress pants), then I may as well stick with the G26 or 27 seems to me, since I'll have to use another form of concealment besides an ordinary pocket.
5. Any others you can think of?

I Thank you quite humbly in advance.

P.S. As a related technical question, I find it interesting that on my P32, Kel-tec has used an novel design in that the hammer decocks (partially) after every shot, which requires a double action pull (which you want in a defense pistol anyway), but which more importantly, allows the spring tension from the hammer (mainspring?) to act as a deterrent to slide movement, helping slow the slide right along with the recoil spring. This allows the recoil spring assembly AND the slide (and therefore the whole gun) to be smaller and lighter. SO, does Kel-Tec do this on their P11 as well? If not, does anyone else currently or plan in the near future to utilize this design in a locked-breach 9mm pistol?
 
2. Taurus Millenium 9mm - Even though this is a light gun, it a little on the thick side in order to fit the double stack magazine. I don't have a problem with the grip but it's a little hard to conceal and the trigger seems a little "strange" (that the best way that I can describe it) -- although I like the idea of having a manual safety on a DAO pistol which nobody except Taurus seems to have.
3. Kahr MK9 - While the MK9 is heavier than the G27, it is also smaller than the G27 because it is made like a tank out of all steel and the added weight makes the gun more controlable than the G27 when shooting hot defensive rounds.
4. Colt Pocket Nine - If you look hard, you still might be able to find one of these. Unlike the rest, the Pocket Nine is a true double action only gun with a repeat striker capability. With all other guns, if you encounter a misfire, you have to reprime the striker but with the Pocket Nine, you just have to pull the trigger again -- a definte plus during a stressful life & death shooting encounter. However, the Pocket Nine was a fairly new gun with some reliability problems and it was pulled by Colt before those problems could be fully resolved.

I can't comment too much on the rest but out of these, I would recommend the MK9 (which is what I carry myself for deep concealment).

Ideally, I would like a gun like the MK9 with the repeat striker capability of the Pocket Nine and the manual safety of the Millenium (any gun makers out there listening?) Hope this has been of some help.

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Yes, you missed one. Futo, I've been shooting for many years and collect the 9mm's.

The finest 9mm carry gun I have ever witnessed, and own, is the Walther P5 Compact. It has a single stack 8+1 mag and a multifunction decock/slide release lever that is literally flush with the side of the gun. It basically a "big-brother" design to the P88 as far as the barrel rail system is concerned. Unlike many other autoloaders the barrel end will always return to the exact same positon due to this rail system. It's a tack driver. The pistol is very slim, slightly wider than a PPK with NO sharp edges to catch on clothing. In fact, the P5c was specifically designed for the German secret service (now also used by other Euro agencies) as a "safe", concealable weapon that could be carried loaded and be ready to fire quickly. The firing pin block system will prevent the gun from firing unless either the trigger is pulled all the way through OR the hammer is manually drawn back to the single action firing position.

I've owned and shot a whole bunch of 9mm's and the P5 Compact, IMHO, is way ahead of the entire pack.

You owe it to yourself to try to find one of these. They are very hard to come by and not cheap, around the $700 range. Yep, it up there but worth every penny. The minute I find another one I'll buy it on the spot.

You see, it'sthe only gun my wife will carry so I want one for myself too...

CMOS

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GOA, TSRA, LEAA, NRA, SAF and I vote!
 
Futo: Seems like the new Kahr P9 should be just what you're looking for. About 17oz. empty, 7+1, and the slickest, shortest DAO trigger out there.
 
You can`t have a discussion about small/light 9mms without including the P-11. It`s lighter and/or smaller than any other 9mm auto. 12.5oz.,10 round flush fit magazines,no sharp edges,and an optional belt clip (which eliminates the bulk and weight of a holster). For it`s intended purpose the trigger pull is no liability IMO and may in fact be a bonus in some ways. I dunno why Keltec hasn`t switched to the P-32s trigger system but to tell you the truth after carrying my P-11 for 3+ years everyday (mostly with the belt clip I didn`t *think* I`d like ;) )and firing over 4000rds. through it(totally trouble free)I wouldn`t change a thing. Marcus
 
I'm pretty happy with my SIG 239, but there are smaller/lighter things out there. I haven't seen one yet, but the Beretta 9000 looks real interesting, should be showing up in the gun stores about now. I just can't seem to warm up to Glocks. The 26 is a nice enough gun, but thick as a brick, and I don't like teh two fingered grip (may also be a problem with the Beretaa 9000?) The other one that interests me is the Taurus Millennium titanium in 9mm. Hopefully, they've got the bugs out by now. good luck in your quest. M2
 
Oh, yes, Marcus, I meant to include the P11 in the mix - certainly it's the best in terms of size and weight, and must be compared. I'm just still wondering if the durability concerns are real, what with all the stories of these falling apart and all.
 
I've had a Kel-Tec P11 and I just got a G26, and I've tried most of the rest. I think we are still a year or so away from a great 9mm CCW gun. All today's choices have problems:

1) The G26 is too chunky and has a Glock trigger.
2) The P11 has a WORSE trigger and is made a little too cheaply.
3) The Kahr K9 is too heavy, and I'll wait a while for the P9 to prove itself. Now the MK series is GREAT, but again too heavy for a true pocket pistol.

I want a G26 (so it would be ultra reliable and have a tennifer finish) that is the size of a P11 (it truly is an 11 shot pocket gun) and has the Kahr Elite trigger (whoa baby!). I think that would be a GREAT CCW gun! Or maybe if the G26 was a little thinner. Or if the P11 a little more quality. Or maybe...
 
"All today's choices have problems."

Just because you're waiting for the Kahr P9 to "prove itself", that means it has a problem? I've got one and it hasn't given me any problems. I thought the grip was too small but I put a Hogue Hand-all on it and now it's perfect. I think it's easily the best CC pistol out there.
 
Futo,I can`t speak for all P-11s but after well over 4000rds.(many of them Corbon and Triton +Ps) I haven`t had any trouble with mine at all. There is no discernable wear on anything but the exterior finish (parkerizing)and even there it`s only on a few edges. It has jammed exactly once. My buddy and I were practicing speedrocks and he drew and fired it with his palm *behind* the slide! It cut his hand up a little bit and stovepipe jammed the P-11. That`s it. A few friends have them also and have been very happy with them. BTW the newest production Keltecs are made much nicer than mine which is about 3 years old. The Keltec isn`t for everyone but it suits me well. :) Marcus
 
Ditto the Walther P5C comments, but I find it a bit wide now that I have a Kahr P9. Lots of rounds thru the P9 (650?) & no jams after one on the very first mag full. The P5C is just a pure joy to own & shoot, but I am selective as to when it's carried-perhapes I don't want to mess it up, or I now find it too wide. I don't have any of the others, but the Glocks (of which I'm fond & have 3) are too wide, & while I have a P32 & have had great results with it, it doesn't hold a candle to the P5C or P9. While it works, the workmanship is not a confidence builder. That level is ok for a hideout gun, but I can't endorse it beyond that. As far as the Colt Pocket 9, Colt can go jump in a lake- I've also heard (SM&A board) of reliability/parts issues. Get a P9 & do your own eval. You probably won't look back.
 
Ditto what Marcus has said about the P-11. I love mine, zero malfunctions. I carry it in the summer and a 1911 Commander in the winter.
 
The only good pocket pistol is the Keltec P32, as all other pistols are too heavy and print too much. I should say other 32's may qualify also, although most are most expensive than the Keltec, and all are heavier.

The small Ulight revolvers from Taurus and S&W are also good pocket guns, although a little larger than the P32.
 
I tried the Pocket Nine - and I liked it.
There is a company that does custom work on them - they guys that make the PGP I think...
I would wager that they would have a couple available or be able to get you one.
I tried a factory stock new model and it worked fine using those blue Nyclad rounds.

Speaking of Nyclad - I have found that they will feed quite well in guns that normaly have feed problems... They shoot well, are accurate, and mushroom about the same a Gold Dot.

Saying that - I think that would be an outstanding carry package. Pocket Nine, Myclads... Mated with a good quality made holster - Your Set.
 
bubbaturbo, The P9 MIGHT be the best CCW gun ever made (and I'm not joking about that). BUT, I prefer to wait about a year so the gun can prove itself. I really do appreciate the you are willing to be a test case. Please continue to let us know how your P9 does! If it has proven to be reliable over the long run, I can easily see myself getting one...
 
I think the company referred to doing work on the Pocket Nine is MacDougal, Scott? www.colt380.com They've been doing Ponys and Mustangs for a number of years and seem to be very well thought of.

On the Kel-Tec, how much does it weigh? The Pocket Nine has an alloy frame and weighs only about 17 oz. There's also the new (but larger, I think) polymer-framed Kahr, which is a big step forward. BTW, M,S is doing a frame mod on that to make the grip more the size of the Micro Kahr. Pretty interesting...makes a very compact, reliable 9x19...for a price!

JNewell
 
I own 2 1/2 of the pistols you mention. How? I own a Glock 27 which I think is the equal of any pistol out there. The Taurus PT111 is a nice light pistol that conceals well for me. Is it chunky? I don't know if it is any wider than the others. I do know it works for me. The Kahr 9 felt heavy to me and I had jams but as it reaches 200 rounds it is starting to grow on me. If I were to offer an opine for a concealed weapon I would still go with the old standby. What is it? A S&W Model 37. Regards, Richard.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMOS:
Yes, you missed one. Futo, I've been shooting for many years and collect the 9mm's.

The finest 9mm carry gun I have ever witnessed, and own, is the Walther P5 Compact.

CMOS
[/quote]
I agree with you about the P5. It has one serious drawback however. Magazines are almost impossible to get in the US, and when they are found, they cost in the $80.00 range. This is to much to pay for a single stack mag, I think.



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BOYCOTT SMITH AND WESSON!!!!!
The only justice for a traitor is at the end of a rope!!!!
Off my meds (quit smoking), armed to the teeth, and loose on an unsuspecting society!!!
 
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