Time to think with a cool head. That means I need help!!

[Pond James Pond]

I'd spend your bucks on food, candles, and a way out of Dodge. I suspect the same advice might work in your case.

Sound advice indeed, but I plan to have food, candles, a way out of Dodge.... and a rifle. AmI being too greedy?

The Saiga comes from Russia just like the 7.62x39 Barnaul ammo does. Why do you assume that the ammo will become unavailable but the rifles won't?

You only need to buy the rifle once, but the ammo you need to keeping buying ad infinitum. Saigas are on the shelves and on the secondhand market at present. So is the ammo: the problem is 90% of it is Barnaul. Buying a Russian rifle, were it my first choice, is not the problem it is the ammo to feed it that might be.

On a more positive note, my club owner told me today that there were stocks aplenty of 7.62x39 in Estonia and elsewhere in E. Europe. In addition it is not the most popular in light calibres. There .223 is ahead, but at least there are still manufacturers shipping to Estonia from places other than Russia.

Will the Russian supply dry up due to sanctions? Who knows?

On a purely ethical note, it irks me somewhat to give my money to a company that is no doubt a supporter of the current war-mongerers who preside in "The Fort", but if that is the only supply to help maintain my ability to protect myself, so be it.

VZ58 or other? I'd go with the AR15 in light of your ammo concerns.

I tell ya'.... I am teetering back and forth like a little small-arms metronome. This morning I was virtual sure that the AR was the only sound choice and that still seems like the safer bet, but a quick price check around shows that .223 is more expensive because I shouldn't run the steel junk ammo through I got another perspective about x39 supplies through my club contact.

Exhausting....

 

[motorhead0922]

P,JP I have been wondering if the Russian/Ukraine situation was causing you grief. I'm sorry to hear that it is.

I cannot legally keep both, being at a capacity threshold for my safe.

Uh, not knowing the laws in Estonia, it sounds to me like you need a bigger safe!

 

[steelbird]

Don't concern yourself TOO much about steel ammo being junk. My own experience, and that of many others, is that the steel case runs fine in an AR platform. If budget issues are a concern, maybe it's better to get the less expensive gun and use the remaining cash for ammo. It all depends on how much you can keep on your person if you have to be on the move.
If you feel that the VZ 58 is what is best for you, and the ammo can be acquired in sufficient numbers, the lower price of the VZ will allow you to stock up on more ammo than any given 223 platform ( and get some batteries, canned goods, etc ), then the VZ may be the best choice for you. Besides, as mentioned earlier, if there is a shooting fight, additional arms and ammunition often becomes available. And if it is the Russians, there is always the nice ironic touch of shooting their ammo back at them...... hopefully, it will not come to that.

 

[Pond James Pond]

hopefully, it will not come to that.

Couldn't agree more.

Honestly.... After all the world has been through last century, the governments people elect still manage to find ways to spread mayhem and uncertainty. Makes me sick....

When I stop and think about the kind of scenario I am having to at least factor into my future plans, even if it is not the central theme to those plans, I have to shake my head in disbelief.

This is not the world I want for my child.... as if humanity didn't already have enough to deal with.

In answer to the earlier question about the Force's take on citizen irregulars pitching in, I have no idea: not something I plan on asking!! However, given the disparity of force, I imagine any help would be welcome!!

I think I won't know which platform to buy until I've actually brought it home...

 

[steelbird]

Whatever you decide, I hope it will work for you. I've read your posts before, and you certainly give me the impression you're a guy who will do the right thing by yourself, your family and community. Best of luck, man.

 

[Skans]

Sell the Mark III. I have an all stainless Mark II - it's ok for a .22 pistol. Take-down is a royal PITA. I've had some minor reliability issues with it - top of trigger needed to be cleaned, which is impossible without disassembling the entire gun. I suppose what it comes down to is that I'd rather have a S&W Model 41.

While I don't understand the "not enough room in my safe for both" comment, the VZ58 is a far more useful weapon.

 

[Pond James Pond]

While I don't understand the "not enough room in my safe for both" comment, the VZ58 is a far more useful weapon.

Over here, once you reach a certain number of guns, if you want to add more, you either have to sell one to make space or you need a higher category of safe that qualifies as a small strong-room. Think of it as the difference between a steel cabinet and a bona fide safe.

I fall into the former category as I lack the funds, but more importantly the space to fit a larger safe in our flat.

Hence I had to choose which of my guns to sell, and the Ruger.22, as good as it may be, had to go since I use it least and is mostly a practice gun.

Indeed it has gone and I have since made a choice as to how to proceed, all detailed here!!