Tight Iraq election security includes weapons ban

70-101 wasn't the one who called me intellectually lazy, you were (although I would like to hear 70-101's take on what I read). My response was geared toward answering it on the basis that the money thing was why you said that. If it wasn't, and you think all interrogators are just intellectually lazy, then you have a lot to learn about my profession. Nobody brings us anything, we have to take it from them when they don't want us to have it. And we have to do it within the framework of the UCMJ. It is a battle of wills and no two battles are ever the same, so you can't run drills to prepare. You just have to keep assessing the subject and adjusting your approach as necessary. I would like to see you try it, but reasoning and logic are often involved, so I don't think you would make the cut. Bluster and insults seem to be the only tools in your toolbox.
 
Sorry, for not posting a link to my statement about Allawi passing out greenbacks to the press. I just thought it was quite telling,really... :)



Iraq 'Election' A Done Deal
Don't Be Fooled By
Occupation In Democracy's Clothing

By Linda S. Heard, Special to Gulf News
1-26-5

Forgive me if I cannot whip up too much excitement over the coming Iraqi elections. Apart from my innate scepticism as to US intentions after its pretexts for going to war were blown apart, the words of an Iraqi diplomat who insisted he was a close friend of Eyad Allawi add fuel to the embers.

"The outcome of the elections is more or less a done deal," he told me. "Allawi is set to continue."

I took this statement with a fistful of salt until I read this in last Sunday's Times: "fears of a takeover by Shiite clerics have prompted speculation that Washington might have been trying to strike a deal with Al Sistani to keep Allawi as prime minister after the election".

Tipped to oust Allawi is head of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq Abdul-Aziz Al Hakim and he is clamouring for American troops to go home pronto.

Since Bush has promised the occupying forces will abide by the wishes of a sovereign Iraqi government, his call could prove embarrassing.

Let's face it, US troops aren't about to go anywhere especially since neighbouring Iran features large on the 2005 pre-emption menu.

We would have to be either naïve or on Prozac to believe the Bush administration is poised to walk off into the sunset sans oil and sans face, leaving an Iraqi government representing the Shiite majority free to cosy up to the Iranian ayatollahs.

Even if the United States isn't engaged in manipulative hanky panky, the election is defective from the start.

UN monitors are understandably scarce on the ground and three or four Sunni provinces (containing almost half the country's entire population) will be virtually excluded due to rising levels of violence.

Allawi's attempt

Indeed, heralding the new Iraqi democracy are closed borders and airport, travel restrictions and curfews, while candidates and the location of polling stations will remain secret until the last minute.

Allawi's bid already looks suspect after he doled out $100 bills to reporters hoping for favourable coverage.

The Riverbend girl blogger refuses to be seduced. She says she found an "Elect Allawi" pamphlet promising "security and prosperity for occupied Iraq", which fitted nicely at the bottom of a parakeet's cage.

She complains: "People in many areas are being told that if they don't vote the food and supply rations we are supposed to get monthly will be cut off," and asks, "what sort of democracy is it when you force people to go vote for someone or another they don't want?"

The idea that Allawi has a mega following is frankly laughable. This is a former Baathist who fell out with Saddam Hussain and forged links with the CIA.

Few had even heard of him before he replaced Ahmad Chalabi in the Pentagon's affections. So low has Chalabi sunk that the interim Iraqi Defence Minister is threatening to hand him over to Jordan where he was convicted in absentia for embezzlement.

Allawi cheered on the flattening of Fallujah and supports the American military presence, so it is hardly likely he would attract a significant popular vote.

Iraqis know that Allawi perpetuates the lie their country is now a sovereign state.

Clearly aware who his masters are, Allawi's speech before the US Congress was ridiculed as being designed to aid Bush's re-election and probably dreamt up by Bush's own speechwriters.

"We are succeeding in Iraq," he said, before thanking his audience for "your brave vote in 2002 to authorise American men and women to go to war to liberate my country ".

No condemnation concerning the use of cluster bombs, which are regularly responsible for small children losing their limbs. No condemnation of the use of depleted uranium tank shells responsible for a prevalence in birth defects and cancers.

No condemnation of the deaths of up to 100,000 Iraqi civilians and not a word about the torture and abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

Allawi is no patriot and if he remains prime minister after the vote, then, as far as I am concerned it was a sham, a pre-arranged set-up just as the Iraqi diplomat confided it would be.

The release of an audio tape by the elusive Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, which announces: "We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology" just days before the election, is strangely reminiscent of that released by the even more elusive Osama Bin Laden days before the US vote, said to have swayed voters in Bush's direction.

Fit the profile

"Evil principle of democracy?" Bush always said that they, the terrorists, hate democracy. It looks like Zarqawi is only too happy to fit the profile.

If you believe that anyone believes democracy is evil, I've got a nice Egyptian pyramid I'd like to sell you with a free camel if you purchase two.

Donald Rumsfeld was quick to acknowledge that this election will be far from perfect but believes a flawed election is better than no election.

The trouble is democracy isn't a loaf of bread. There is no such thing as half democracy. Elections are either comprehensive, inclusive, free and fair or they are not.

Iraqis deserve a prosperous, peaceful and democratic Iraq but I doubt this is possible as long as the occupation forces stay. They have their agenda; the Iraqi people have theirs and both are mutually exclusive.

A paper entitled "Rebuilding America's Defences" drawn up by the Project for a New American Century in 2000 and signed up to by several top members of the Bush administration suggests US troops need to establish a permanent foothold in the Gulf, while keeping a low profile.

Once Iraq is officially stamped a democracy and American soldiers withdraw to a series of permanent bases or behind the walls of the largest and most fortified US embassy in the world, the Strauss-cons will have achieved their objective occupation in democracy's clothing.

Although whether they will be allowed to get away with this giant con is an entirely different matter.

Linda S. Heard is a specialist writer on Middle East affairs. She can be contacted at lheard@gulfnews.com

http://www.gulfnews.com
 
70-101 wasn't the one who called me intellectually lazy, you were (although I would like to hear 70-101's take on what I read). My response was geared toward answering it on the basis that the money thing was why you said that. If it wasn't, and you think all interrogators are just intellectually lazy, then you have a lot to learn about my profession. Nobody brings us anything, we have to take it from them when they don't want us to have it. And we have to do it within the framework of the UCMJ. It is a battle of wills and no two battles are ever the same, so you can't run drills to prepare. You just have to keep assessing the subject and adjusting your approach as necessary. I would like to see you try it, but reasoning and logic are often involved, so I don't think you would make the cut. Bluster and insults seem to be the only tools in your toolbox.
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Yes, intellectually lazy for asking people to bring evidence to you. Imagine if in every conversation I said, "the earth's atmosphere is 80% helium, I will continue to believe that unless you bring me extensive documentation to disprove my theory." I'm gonna stay ignorant for a very long time am I not?

But also using your reasoning, who's to say we can believe ANYTHING we see in the news if we are not there first hand to witness it? How do you know Saddam was captured, how do you know Osama bin Laden exists?

Where did I say that interrogators are intellectually lazy? You made that connection, not me. My profession is not my identity.
 
Thanks for the article, 70-101. I am a bit confused though, since the BBC article talked about the Arab press, and not some American bloggers. Sorry if I am a bit skeptical of bloggers, but they do not have to have their statements go through an editor who (should) demand the facts of the case and multiple sources before they publish. Otherwise, we have another Bush Guard memo fiasco. :rolleyes:

Like I said previously, I think the Sunnis should have been more engaged in the political process. That would have encouraged the Sunni imams to push their followers to vote, instead of sitting out on the sidelines pouting. If we had an election in America and one party sat out because of sour grapes or whatever, we would still call it a fair election because the party decided not to vote, thereby reducing their right to complain. If we had engaged the Sunnis, maybe they would have stopped the violence for a day to vote, leaving only those who couldn't vote or didn't want to vote (Ba'athists and foreign fighters) sitting on the sidelines trying to start something. That would have made the security situation easier to handle, giving the opportunity for those who wanted to vote a chance to do so without fear of reprisal. Oh well, Monday morning quarterbacking doesn't solve anything.

I still find it hilarious that the UN is going to send less monitors than they did to the US during our last election. They are a prime waste of New York City real estate, IMO.
 
Psycho, your rounds are landing short again. All that I ask is that if someone makes a statement that sounds far-fetched on a web forum, they provide the information that led them to form their opinion on the matter.

Being an interrogator means asking good, direct questions in order to separate the BS from the truth.

I think it (see bold print above) means being intellectually lazy because you want everyone to bring everything to you, rather than going to find out for yourself.
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Any English teacher would infer that you were talking about being an interrogator. Otherwise, the statement would have looked like this:
I think you are intellectually lazy because you want everyone to bring everything to you, rather than going to find out for yourself.
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My profession is not my identity.
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Just out of curiousity, what is your profession? I picked mine to make a difference in the world and because it strengthens my country. What about you?
 
Well the problem with that is that some things that do not sound far fetched to some folk, will sound far fetched to others.

Any English teacher would infer that you were talking about being an interrogator. Otherwise, the statement would have looked like this:
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You're right. I meant to direct it at you, not your profession.

Just out of curiousity, what is your profession? I picked mine to make a difference in the world and because it strengthens my country. What about you?
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I am currently self employed. I do computer work, among other things. I also work for a historical society as well as go to school. The army is a good place to earn a paycheck, but as far as the making a difference in the world bit, I have to disagree. I used to believe the same as you do years ago, but I've come to see alot of things differently. 9/11 was sort of my wakeup call.

I have a book I'd like to recommend to you. It's written by Smedley Butler and it's entitled "War is a Racket"

I often wonder how sad it must be for an individual to come to the end of his career only to realize that it was all for not.
 
Ah, but making a difference takes so many forms. I often get e-mails from former soldiers that I led, telling me how something I taught them helped them out, or how some advice I gave them worked out very well for them. On the international side, I am very proud of all the things I did to improve people's lives in Bosnia. And here in Iraq, I'm proud of the fact that intelligence I send up leads to the arrest of people who are willing to attack young American soldiers and don't mind blowing up a few Iraqis in the process. So, I sleep well at night, and I probably will when my career is said and done. Unless of course, all of my former troops call me when I get home and tell me that they were lying and that I haven't made a damn bit of difference to them, but I just don't see that happening.

How did 9/11 make you think that military service doesn't make a difference? I've never heard anyone say that.
 
How did 9/11 make you think that military service doesn't make a difference? I've never heard anyone say that.
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Because all wars are staged.

I've come to realize that so much is staged. I constantly hear people repeat the same tired lines. I see people propagandized into their democrat-republican camps with no room for outside thought. Dissenters are treated like street thugs. We have free speech zones. Big brother is watching. The propaganda masters appeal to our human nature to want to help other people and at the same time punish despots of which the net result of this is international collectivism and militarism.

War is a Racket

I have no doubt I'd be a good bullet catcher, but I think the real fight is here on the home front. Not where the media tells you it is. And it's a philosophical battle, not a military one.
 
Yeah, you're a real patriot, alright! While a lot of your 18 to 28 year old peers are in the military fighting the war on terror you're here holdng down the home front posting on the internet about what fools an dupes you think that they are. And you have the audacity to question someone who's putting his life on the line and is in the thick of the action.

The word 'arrogant' doesn't even begin to describe you.
 
I hope it is a philisophical one, a military fight really brings down the property values in one's neighborhood. I do fight the philisophical battles at home, but I'd rather do the military ones over here. Terrorists that have a "Death to America" mantra going can take it wherever they want thanks to international travel, but Iraq is easier to get to when you live in the Middle East. Why else do you think Zarqawi renamed his group from Unification and Jihad to Al Qaida in Iraq? Once he got Bin Laden's support, he could call on all of the AQ terrorists in the Middle East that can't get into the US or Europe because of no-fly lists to come here to fight us. And as long as they are making their way over here instead of to Mexico to be smuggled across the border, I consider that progress.
 
Yeah, you're a real patriot, alright! While a lot of your 18 to 28 year old peers are in the military fighting the war on terror you're here holdng down the home front posting on the internet about what fools an dupes you think that they are. And you have the audacity to question someone who's putting his life on the line and is in the thick of the action.

The word 'arrogant' doesn't even begin to describe you.
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^^^^ LoL, this chickenhawk is a riot. :D

Do any of those 18 to 28 year olds include Bush's daughters?

Or Kerry's?

I put my life on the line everytime I eat out.
 
Yeah, they closed it a year or two ago, though. I don't think that anyone else has bought the building yet. But it is only two exits down the highway from me. While a tragedy, it did lead to concealed carry in Texas, so at least some good came out of that mess.
 
IZ-not really a related question to this thread, but since my kid is moving up to FOB Brassfield-Mora, how available is internet access to the soldiers?

I received a call from him yesterday-they are still in convoy, and are due in Samarra very soon. They had a small incident-apparently, some people in a technical thought they were attacking a resupply column and tried to make trouble. I would suppose a broadside from the 3rd ID can be pretty darned powerful!

He says that they are staging for the election and depending on how it goes, will be training locals and they will be increasingly held back as a reaction force as they get the Iraqi's trained up. Thats the plan anyway, and of course is dependent on what happens after the elections.

As I understand it, the people elected to the Parliment will draw up a Constitution to be voted on by the 18 provinces, and if 3 or more fail to ratify, it goes back to be straightened out and voted on again. Whoever drew this plan up was using his noodle, because it means they all need each other in order to pass it. Even the Sunni's, who hold I think 3 provinces, can force a compromise. I know there is a lot of people who look at the Iraqis as backwards people, but if they can put aside their differences for the common good, I think they can make it work.

Here's to hoping
 
David,

The 'three-governorate' rule was put in to get the participation of the 'Kurdish' governorates. For obvious reasons, they have a continued fear of the other governorates, and wanted some method to ensure that thier views and votes had enough power to protect them in the longer term. And BTW, please pass on my good wishes and support to your 'kid' (non-gender specific term :D ). I have a brother there (in the NG) also, at another FOB a bit farther north. I'll add this, regarding internet access: Although my experience is dated, according to reports, the troops still have limited access at thier bases. There 'were' military MWR Internet cafes at most of the ones I went to, and usually there was a fairly strictly enforced 20 minute rule, due to the number of 'customers'. Those who are lucky enough to have access at work can post and get mail more frequently, keeping in mind that all communication is subject to monitoring (snail mail and e-mail, etc.) This is a necessary evil, trust me. I will not say more than that.

IZinterrogator,

I think many, especially outside Iraq, do not understand the importance of the work you are doing. They also don't really understand what the celebratory gunfire means, on the ground, to those who aren't part of the celebration. Probably because they have never heard 7.62x39 rounds after they have gone subsonic. :eek: Or how literally many Iraqi's take the term "In sh'Allah'. Nor do most grasp the source of all the weaponry. Since Iraq had been turned into one big weapons cache, it was pretty easy to come by an AK after Saddam's fall and the 'disapperance' of the majority of the his armed forces.

As before, stay safe.
 
David, internet access is hit and miss. I am fortunate to have a dedicated internet line in my ops office that I can use all night. Others have to go to 'internet cafes' where there are long lines and limited access.

I would like to share an e-mail that my commander sent to all of us worker bees today. She sums it up better than I ever could.
Tomorrow is the Iraqi National Election when many Iraqis will brave intimidation and death to vote for their new National Assembly. Some will not vote from fear. Some will not vote from principle. But millions will vote. Millions will walk to the polling stations at neighborhood schools, defying the enemy watching their movements. Some of those will die in retaliation as many already have; that is what terrorism does… it aims to change behavior through terror. Whether the behavior of a state or the behavior of an individual, terrorists want their tactics of horror and uncertainty to determine the outcome. Which is where we come in, we who stand with those who dare to defy terror.

While tomorrow is not the end of all problems in Iraq, it is a day in which Iraqis begin to determine their own destiny. What we must remember is that not only do soldiers risk much in rebuilding Iraq. I believe the Iraqi people risk far more for the enemy can reach out and touch their families while ours are safe at home. There are brave and honorable men like the Governor of Baghdad who sacrificed their lives for the opportunity to shape a nation, to transform it into something better, who believe that making a difference is worth the risk.

We tend to get the other end of the spectrum in the DIF (Division Interrogation Facility). We get the ones who will sacrifice anything to make sure democracy in any form never takes hold. We get many of those who work diligently to continue fear and intimidation. That is why what you do daily is so important. The intelligence gathered from this facility helps slowly but surely create an environment where fear and intimidation, violence and hate will lose ground. That we execute our mission professionally, with regard for what is right, shows that we take the high road.

I'm proud of what you do. I'm proud to be a part of this period in history. You should be too.
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"And BTW, please pass on my good wishes and support to your 'kid"

Much appriciated, Trapshooter, and my best regards to your bro. My son is 19, a combat medic (91W) and loves his job so far. Don't know what this fight is going to do for his enthusiasm, but I doubt it will stay the same. Once you cross thru the mirror, as they say, you can never cross back.

I kind of figured as much, IZ, as to the availablity of the internet cafe's. Reminds me of the lines at the MARS stations-but at least they won't have to say "over" at the end of each transmission! Overheard some memorable arguements way back when-the booths were not exactly soundproof........

And a special watchover goes out to you and your buddies, too, IZ. Seems there are no "rear areas" where you folks can truly let your guard down, ever. Thank you all for stepping up to the plate for a most difficult mission a lot of folks couldn't do, and know that your integrity is very much respected.

IMO, the time for political noise stopped when the boots hit the beach, and the only discussion which should be happening is how we can best support your mission and your morale.
 
Seems there are no "rear areas" where you folks can truly let your guard down, ever.
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Truer words were never spoken, noting the latest rockets into the embassy. It's a tense existence, and amazing how most just learn to live with it fairly quickly. Hope you are good to go, IZ.

My brother is just a shooter where he is, like lots of folks. It's nice for them to be with friends. And David, while there are exceptions, and no one is jumping for joy at thier situation, I found most of the troops there to be committed and determined to do the job. I was continually impressed, and remain so.

And, in addition, there are few people as respected and welcome as a Doc, if you understand what I'm saying.
 
'I put my life on the line every time I eat out'.

I'll bet you do. I'll just bet regular folk in N.Dak get real impatient real quick puttin' up with strutting and arrogant sass from their youngsters, especially out in public and especially around the dinner table. You do be careful, ya' hear. :)

I'm curious just how high that horse of yours is gonna get. The higher you go, the thinner the air. The thinner the air, the more incoherent you become. Must be pretty high right now...with all due respect. ;)
 
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