Thumb safety idea...a "Scaled" safety

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FlySubCompact

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I only have one semiauto with a thumb safety. A Smith Bodyguard 380.

Personally, I find I don't care for this feature and don't use it when I do carry it. If it is loaded with one in the chamber, it is in it's nice little secure holster. My reason is that when I first got the gun and was getting familiar with it at the range, I used the thumb safety while it was in the holster. When I'd draw to shoot I found I'd sometimes forget to flip the safety off and notice only after unsuccessfully trying to fire that first round. DOH! I can see where a thumb safety could easily be a problem under the stress of a self defense situation.

I know that on these forums that there is a pro-con thing about thumb safeties. Don't really want to rehash that. But I did think of that maybe a new type "safety" could be had.

A thumb safety that holds until a high level of trigger pressure is attained. Akin to the heavy New York trigger on some Glocks. A blend of the two? This first heavy trigger pull would disengage the safety and following shots would have normal trigger pressure. A scaled safety. That would give a certain level of protection against accidental discharge, like pro-thumb safety/NYT folks desire, but not cripple the gun totally in a high stress SD moment.

What do you gunnies think of this as an option? Just curious.
 
Yep. Sounds like you are describing DA/SA, which has been around for at least 80 years.

Unfortunately, there are not a lot of modern small carry guns using this system. The CZ Rami and Walther P99c AS are the only two that immediately spring to mind. Of course, you still have classics like the PPK and the SIG P232.
 
I'm fairly new to pistols, so excuse my ignunce. :D

After being awoken by Jehovah's Witness folk this AM I was laying in bed, contemplating, as I do sometimes. Today was gun engineering day. I'm also great at coming up with ideas that have already been invented. :cool::mad:
 
This first heavy trigger pull would disengage the safety and following shots would have normal trigger pressure. A scaled safety.
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You've described the typical DA/SA gun starting from hammer down: heavier first shot, lighter followups. And since most of them have decockers, there's no "forgot the safety" problem. But, with hammer down, there's really no need for a safety in the first place.

The Lionheart / DaeWoo semi-autos with hinged hammers do something similar with a slightly longer, staged first pull, but with a light SA pull at the end. You can use the gun's safety if the hammer is down, but it's not mandatory. That gun also has a true "cocked & locked" mode, too.

Not everyone forgets to release the safety -- and those who do simply need to practice presentations until the muscle memory associated with releasing the safety kicks in.

In taking the approach you describe, you've done away with the biggest advantage of the SA trigger: first and subsequent trigger pulls being the same. Your solution solves one problem but creates another.
 
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Why dont you just practice more until you remember to flick the safety off. Us military does it. So can you. It doesnt do any good to throw money at problems.

Or whats the point of a safety if it goes off when pulled? If you want that, just turnup your poundage
 
FlySubCompact said:
I'm fairly new to pistols, so excuse my ignunce.

After being awoken by Jehovah's Witness folk this AM I was laying in bed, contemplating, as I do sometimes. Today was gun engineering day. I'm also great at coming up with ideas that have already been invented
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technically your idea has not already been invented and has merit, if you carry a DA/SA pistol cocked and locked you still have to correctly disengage the safety just like you do on a SA only. Many people choose a SAO pistol because they dont want the DA first shot. The delimma is either learn how to shoot DA/SA or learn how to disengage the safety under stress... pick one
 
A thumb safety that holds until a high level of trigger pressure is attained. Akin to the heavy New York trigger on some Glocks. A blend of the two? This first heavy trigger pull would disengage the safety and following shots would have normal trigger pressure. A scaled safety. That would give a certain level of protection against accidental discharge, like pro-thumb safety/NYT folks desire, but not cripple the gun totally in a high stress SD moment.
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Sounds like a DA/SA trigger with no manual safety. Been done.
 
The purpose of a safety is not to prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is not pulled; it is to prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled. A safety that disengages when the trigger is pulled defeats the purpose.

Jim
 
^A long, heavy DA trigger pull is a proven mechanical safety arrangement that doesn't prevent the gun from firing when enough force is applied to the trigger.
 
This makes me think. Never even crossed my mind. All the DA/SA guns I've dealt with are all hammer fired. This may be silly, but are there any DA/SA that are striker fired?? As in the striker can sit in one of two places? Set further back for the first shot, and sit closer up for the remaining shots?? Or have the trigger the same as DA/SA but just on a striker fired. Ie. 10lbs of trigger pull (just for example) on the first and then 4lbs on the remaining. Feel free to get technical, and possibly call me stupid! Just thinking over here.
 
I think one of the benefits (or detriments, depending on your perspective) of a striker-fired action is consistency of trigger pull. There are DAO and SAO striker-fired actions, but none that I know of that are DA/SA.

Edited to note I am wrong: see Post #20 below.
 
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Jimbob,

That is kind of what I was thinking about for a striker gun. My main pistol experience is with Glocks. One striker pistol I shot was a SW Shield 9mm that had a manual thumb safety. The little SW Bodyguard I own has a hammer, but the trigger pull is hard to pull on every shot.
 
Although OP's described safety is in effect the same as a DA/SA if the safety is not disengaged it is not mechanically the same. It has the benefit of being capable of being fired without the safety on, so it is almost a SA with the option of simulated SA/DA for a marginally increased safety.
A lot of complications to design and I am not sure the difference is desirable or significant enough anyone would consider production.

On the other hand, a curved gun frame wasn't on my radar.
Quite a few people here predicted the LCR would be a total flop.
 
I think one of the iterations of the Walther P99 is a striker fired DA/SA - the p99as I think.

I actually kind of like your idea. You could just figure out a way to add a second, "disengageable", spring to the trigger
 
The purpose of a safety is not to prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is not pulled; it is to prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled.
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What do you call the firing pin thingy that is used to prevent the gun from firing upon impact when the trigger is not pulled?

I would really be disappointed if my firing pin thingy prevented the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled.
 
45_auto said:
What do you call the firing pin thingy that is used to prevent the gun from firing upon impact when the trigger is not pulled?

I would really be disappointed if my firing pin thingy prevented the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled.
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Uhm you totally misunderstood what he was trying to say. Obviously one would disengage the safety when they intended on using it
 
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