Throw Down Wallet (a question for Mas Ayoob)

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pesta2

New member
On another thread I was reading about, what else you carry beside you gun, someone had a “throw down wallet” and a real wallet.

I am assuming it is a fake wallet that you throw on the ground and not your real wallet. I can see this being a good thing that the criminal will not get your money, credit cards, or personal information.

Here is the point that really makes me question this practice. It seems an oxymoron to me. If you are carrying a gun along with your fake wallet and someone pulls a gun to rob you, your going to protect you life, pull yours and shot if you have a thrown down wallet or not. So then what is the “throw down wallet” for? You throw a fake wallet down to distract the person to give you a chance to draw and fire, then you shoot right? That seems like it would portray you in very bad light in a court of law.

While taking my CCW class the instructor said (and he is in the law enforcement community) that if you shoot even to protect your own life, you will find yourself in court. At the most defending yourself after that family of the criminal sues you. Do not deny we live in a sue everyone society now. I heard on the radio today a woman is suing now because of that steam pipe burst in New York. She was not injured, she was in a building close by, she has PTSD and was traumatized by it since she lost her sister in 9-11.

Seems to me the bare minimum you could carry would be the best option. Not the type of person that carries their main gun with two spare magazines and a back up gun along with 2 knives, and what ever else they carry. Court could portray you as someone looking for a fight carrying that much ammunition and guns.

Wouldn’t be better carrying a pocket knife, a revolver, wallet and a cell phone?

So what do you think? I would like to hear what Mas Ayoob has to say, I know he is out there somewhere.:)
 
The best defense against an armed robber is remaining calm and giving up your wallet the second he asks you to. Most will just take it and go, though it would seem the number of "senseless" murders is increasing.

The dummy wallet isn't a distraction you carry around so you can blow a street-thug away. It's what you give him instead of your real wallet, hoping he will take it and go.

Now if you believe the criminal will not stop at the wallet, then it may serve as a distraction if you are feeling froggy.
 
Seems that a dummy wallet could backfire if the thug checks it. It could really aggravate an armed robber, which is not what you want.

I'm of the crowd to cooperate until the thug leaves but as soon as either 1) you have a chance to fight back with reasonable certainty of success or 2) there is some certainty that the thug is going to become violent, I'll immediately fight back.

It's not a bad idea and it's just another tool one could use in a certain situation. If, for instance, the thug is collecting wallets in a bag (like at a bank robbery) then just toss you fake one in.

I did use one when I lived in a big city and filled it with a few $1 bills and fake credit cards so it looked legit.
 
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A lot of resources recommend a "throwdown wallet" when traveling in foreign countries.

They suggest putting some 1 and 5 dollar bills in it sticking out a bit even and perhaps one of those fake credit cards you get in those mail solicitations so it looks legit.

Not a bad way to spend $20 to save your life and identity...
 
a "throw down" wallet sounds like a bad idea....however what I do is carry my cash (I don't usually carry much cash $10-$40 at the most) in my weak side front pocket. If I were to be robbed I would throw the wad of cash off to the left (weakside) this draws the BG's attention, eyes, and most importantly weapon off line with me. This gives me an opportunity to step to the right (further offline with BG), and I can have a chance to either get away quickly or draw my CCW.

My wallet stays in my back pocket, weakside, with no cash.

If the mugger just leaves with the cash, fine, a couple dollars can easily be replaced.
 
I've thought about doing it and think the idea is reasonable but I don't just because I hate carrying any more than I have to. Kind of odd seeing as how I CCW a full sized service pistol IWB.:rolleyes:
 
I don't carry a throw down wallet, but I don't really carry much of anything in my wallet. I use plastic almost always, and keep it outside my wallet. My cards look like hell, but they work and they don't come out when I pull my wallet out. I'm not sure I'd ever use it as a diversion, though.

As for resisting, I feel it's my duty to resist if at all possible. If I'm compliant and just give bad guys what they want without a fight, it just perpetuates criminal behavior. I may survive but the next guy the criminal targets might not be so lucky. As long as criminals believe that they're likely to get money by robbing people, they'll continue to do so. However if they believe they're likely to get lead instead of cash, they're likely to reconsider whether $20 is worth the risk.
 
ATW;
Yes, all give it to em and then curl up into a ball types are really not understanding the facts of life and may well be Feinschweiners!
Give a baddy an inch and you have the present situation of namby pamby apologists for "The Disadvantaged" letting the trash take over.
Anyone wants my billfold shall get it, on the ground, and when they bend over for it, at least 2 in the back!:barf:
 
A throw down wallet will work. If the thug decides to check it out, thats ok... he will be distracted. Just make sure you don't have any info that gives him a lead as to who you are or where you live(or you might get a visit!)

The throw down wallet also has the advantage of allowing you to keep your CHL/CCW hidden (or badge if you are a cop.)

I use my old wallet (half dead) as the throw down one. Just some business cards from places I have never really been (and from a town other than the one I live in), a few bucks, and some junk that looks like ID but isn't.

I carry the thing only when I go on trips out of town/state. I'm pretty sure of my surrounding where live, but going on vacation is another matter.

It's my Bourne identity.
 
Ayoob also used to advocate a matchbook with a 5 or 10 dollar bill papercliped to it, to throw if challenged by a gang, or bad guy, etc. His thoughs on this is that it was worth 5 or 10 not to have to kill some SOB and deal with the aftermath. It's not right, but makes sense, because it will cost you a lot more in lawyer fees, etc. more then likely, even if you are absolutely right to shoot some jerk.

From his standpoint, it might be a pretty good idea, but of course goes against the grain for many of us. I am glad I don't live in an area where I need to consider this on a daily basis.
 
A throw down wallet will work. If the thug decides to check it out, thats ok... he will be distracted. Just make sure you don't have any info that gives him a lead as to who you are or where you live(or you might get a visit!)
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I've seen some attitude gang sorts that I do NOT think that would work for.

I think some might see it as being dismissive or "disrespectful", especially if they have an attitude/rage problem and/or are on drugs.


(edit note from original author: Reason I had that in there was to illustrate that street-culture thugs aren't going to behave like easily duped movie bad guys...they're vicious, disgustingly profane and out of control, and they're likely to react to confusion with instant violence before anything else, even thought. I do understand the reason, though.)
 
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It all depends on the criminal. Some might take the throw-down and go, others may check it first and then 'run your pockets' (go through your pockets). As noted earlier, it seems like senseless crimes are increasing, so you'd also run the risk making a BG jumpy and him shooting you, whether you use a throw-down or toss your real wallet.

IMO, do whatever works for you and you're most comfortable with, just make sure you have a full course of action that you're ready to followthrough on. A back-up plan for the back-up plan, if you will.
 
Ayoob also used to advocate a matchbook with a 5 or 10 dollar bill papercliped to it, to throw if challenged by a gang, or bad guy, etc. His thoughs on this is that it was worth 5 or 10 not to have to kill some SOB and deal with the aftermath. It's not right, but makes sense, because it will cost you a lot more in lawyer fees, etc. more then likely, even if you are absolutely right to shoot some jerk.
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Bingo. This is also information that was put forward in "In The Gravest Extreme" and earlier than that published in some of that mags of the day. The advice is 25+ years old but still has its uses. If it appears it is a simple shakedown for cash then simply thowing the wallet with a five or so in it may be all that is needed. The criminal wants money, you throw your wallet. He gets what he wants and you run for it.

Ayoob's advice is to get you out of a situation without having to resort to the gun. Given this is circa 1980 inof you need to understand he saw otherwise law abiding citizens carrying in less than 100% legal situations (look deeply into his wrinings of the day and you will see this come up from time to time) and no laws allowing you to stand your ground. Even today though you are probably going to spend less loosing $5 - $10 dollars on a toss away than on a defense for a justifiable shooting.
 
It has to be a "judgement call", whether you throw a wallet or hand it to the bad guy. If you choose to throw it, you had better be ready to use the momentary distraction for whatever advantage it might give you.

I'm probably the opposite of you folks that carry two wallets. My "throw-down" wallet has all of the $20 bills in it, and the wallet I intend to keep has all of the $1, $5 and $10 bills in it. My "keeper" wallet also has all of my ID and credit/charge cards. If I have to hand the "throw-down" wallet to the bad guy, he'll get somewhere between $200 and $300 in cash....which might satisfy him. I don't want him to get my "identity", but I can replace the cash!

If you CCW and feel "lucky", there are other distractions that you might be able to use, instead of throwing your wallet and pissing off the bad guy. When was the last time that someone told you that your shoelace was untied, and you DIDN'T look down at your shoe? That MIGHT give you enough time to draw and shoot. How about yelling, "Hey, watch out!"? Bad guys aren't exactly rocket scientists, and maybe your exclamation will make them think that the sky is falling! Or, perhaps, "Hey, you can have the money, but will you give me the wallet back?"? If the bad guy starts to fish the money out, then.....!

On top of all of that, when you're in court and testifying, you can HONESTLY say that you carry two wallets...one for the BIG bills ($20's, $50's, $100's) and the other for the small bills, so that you lessen the chance of "flashing" the larger amount of cash when you make a small purchase. It's not a "fake" or "throw-down" wallet....it's a BIG money wallet!
 
I'll have to dig back through my class handouts, but I seem to recall that an instructor mentioned the throwing the wallet trick was a bad thing. It seems in the "urban" culture, throwing your wallet on the ground may be interpreted as "dissing" the robber. Since people have been shot for just looking at someone who embraces the "urban" culture, throwing a wallet down may result in the same end. Don't be dissin'!

Food for thought.
 
That seems like it would portray you in very bad light in a court of law.
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It is actually recommended by just about every expert hired by the various PDs to teach us how to be safe

The technique is not to toss the wallet and wait for his approval or for your chance to draw, but to throw the wallet in one direction as you run screaming int he other
Theory being that the criminal wants the money not the drama

My wife carries a dummy purse with all her important stuff in a neck wallet under her jacket
She was mugged recently and the criminal got only $5, a tube of chapstick,a key chain charm, one tampon and her pepper spray:rolleyes: (she still fought him for it:( )
When I go to Vietnam I carry a fanny pack in my hand and my money roll in my front pocket and a copy of my passport in my front cargo pocket

If anyone snatches my fanny pack they get two rocks and a pack of Marlboros, if necessary it would also make a decent weapon
 
When was the last time that someone told you that your shoelace was untied, and you DIDN'T look down at your shoe? That MIGHT give you enough time to draw and shoot.
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Yeah right, I think I saw Bugs Bunny pull that on Elmer Fudd one time. Come on, you don’t seriously think that’s gonna work, do you? If someone was mugging you, why in the world would you care to warn them about their shoes being untied? And what happens when he glances down and they’re not untied? He gives you an extra hard pounding for pulling such a childish stunt, that’s what happens.

I agree with the original post – it wouldn’t look good in a court of law if you shot somebody for picking up a fake wallet.

What happens if you throw the wallet and the BG asks you to pick it up? There’s too many things that could go wrong here. It makes more sense to just hand them the fake wallet and be on your way.
 
My way of thinking as to a twitchy mugger or gang punk goes as following, because it's a low-yield, high-risk activity.

You throw down wallet:

1. They're confused, wasn't what they expected. They feel like they're losing control of the sitation. Scramble to regain control means using violence...they squeeze the trigger.

2. They think it's disrespecting them. They flail to feel superior again, and that means making you afraid, or shooting you. Or both.

There's also a disturbing number of criminals who don't even do it for the cash. They're criminally insane and they do it because they enjoy seeing the fear on their victims' faces. It gives them a rush.

And for some, killing the victim is even more of a rush.
 
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