Throw away your 1911?

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I see S&W stainless 9mms small framed and carried high, one carries a stainless delta
elite, cocked and locked high carry and slanted forward, one carries a S&W full size
Sigma 9mm, with alot of Uncle Mikes nylon crap, I see one investegator carry a Combat Commander FBI hi-carry. so I guess its what
they can shoot well with, I'd go for a Glock in .45 if I was a LEO, plus a nice back-up
Ruger SP-101 .357. :}
 
Around here anyway, I think thousands of innocent citizens owe their lives to the fact that our police officers do not carry 1911's. Weak training, cavalier attitudes and cocked & locked .45's can be a bad, bad combination.

Twice in the last couple of years I've had LE weapons pointed at me (I forgot to turn off the alarm when I went into my office late at night). I'm really glad those dilberts had long, heavy double action triggers (SIG’s) to deal with. If they had Glocks I'd probably be dead as well.

Police officers need either intense and thorough training or very, very safe guns. Personally, I'm glad I don't see 1911's in police holsters much anymore. (No insult intended to our skilled LEO's represented here... you guys know the cops I'm talking about).
 
I've noticed that true professionals usually (but not always) choose 1911's.

My custom 1911 (Caspian) is much more reliable than my custom M20, more accurate, and more confidence-inspiring. But my M20 holds a big bunch of 10mm.

Wearing the 1911 for Y2K day.......M20 in the car.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
The 1911 is far from dead. Doubt it ever will be.

When most US LE used Smith revolvers, I liked Ruger better, still do.

Ask the holster makers what holsters they sell the most to LE; it's for Glocks. The city/county here issue Glocks, the most popular options when they buy their own are 1911s and USPs.

I like the 1911, BHP, CZ, so I shoot them and the USP much better than the Glock. Have had less probs w the USPs than the Glock. The Glock has NOT been among the most reliable pistols in my hands, or some others I've seen. Neither has the 1911, but I still like it a lot.

The Glock is great, though it has been bested by others from time to time in some extensive T&E (INS/BP, USMC, USN, Brit/Aussie SAS, etc.)

Quite a few people around the world do fine w the 9mm.

And if ya want to play that game, Texas DPS is certain the 357 Mag and 357 SIG are better than the 45; they have used em all and shot enough people w both to know for sure. The INS/BP thinks the 155 40 is as good/better than their 357 Mags, so that would make it better than the 45 too. :)

All said and done, I would probably take my BHP in 9mm over any and all if I had to make a quick, accurate shot under pressure.

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George, are you to lead us to believe that once you typed "[/feeling smug]", you then no longer actually felt smug? Hmmmm, I have my doubts....
 
Just a thought, I see a lot of Glocks malfunctioning at the range.

I'm sure most of it is caused by after market mags or operator error. But on the whole, they seem no more reliable than most good semi autos.

They may not be jamamatics, but they are far from being 100% reliable.
 
Hi there,

Recently at an LFI-I class I was attending, another student asked what trends they were seeing in the pistols carried by police. Massad Ayoob's two assistant instructors, Robert Houzenga (sp?) and Andy Kemp, said that although the Glock was very popular that they are seeing more and more 1911 pattern guns in the hands of police.

Interesting, eh?

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- Anthony (the crazy Italian with a .41 Magnum)

"Civilized people are taught by logic, barbarians by necessity, communities by tradition, and the lesson is inculcated even in wild beasts by nature itself. They learn that they have to defend their own bodies and persons and lives from violence of any and every kind by all the means within their power."

- Marcus Tullius Cicero
 
Futo - Hmmm - maybe I miss-typed! Let me Check.


Yup - got some smuggness going on over here still.



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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!
 
I think the trend comeing back to 1911's is like having an affair.
You get dazzled by the new girl on the block but after trying her out you realize she's not all that.
Glock's are cheap for LEO agencies. Mr. Glock was smart because he knew that everyone would buy one if they saw the local cops carrying them.
He underbid everyone so he could accomplish this. Now when the non LEO's try to buy one they pay an arm and a leg for one. Trust me, $500+ is a lot for a Glock considering how they are made. It is a cheaply made gun because it is simple. Don't get me wrong, the Glock is great for what it is intended for. A simple, easy to shoot, low maintenence gun.
Many experienced LEO's, and younger ones who know how to shoot, prefer 1911's and or Sigs because they are shooters guns, not novice guns.

And finally, IMHO, if you can't handle a safety or single action pull in tactical situations, YOU SHOULD NOT BE CARRYING A GUN FOR SELF DEFENSE AS A COP OR CIVILIAN. Stick to plinking at the range.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
The 1911 is a special gun, made for a gun person. The Glock is everyman's gun. Therefore, you see the shooters with 1911s and everyone else with a Glock.

The 1911 takes a lot of shooting to learn how to use properly. Most people can shoot a Glock acceptably quite quickly. This is another consideration police agencies have: Ease of Training. Cheaper to qualify with a Glock in terms of ammunition and range time.

I use Colt 1911s but I also like Glock, except for their fat butts which makes it tougher to carry concealed.

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45 ACP: Give 'em a new navel!
 
Well, you just wait...
Pretty soon all those Glocks will be blowing up at any minute now, because of those tissue paper barrels.
Then all the people who hate them will be vindicated for warning us.
Oh the 1911 design is far from over being popular, just look at about every gun magazine cover for the last couple of years.
 
Gaston idea is only to make knives and was able to penetrate the military as one customer. He diversified and conceived to make a pistol out of modern kind of plastic to reduce weight better than Metal alloy. He succeeded in producing Glock 17.

To my limited readings of several gun text books, mostly pistols in the market are copied from 1911’s or John Browning Design. Even some manufacturers tried to make innovations or enhancements but still the basic functions is recoil operated or if not gas operated to move the slide and eject the empty case. So what is new with modern guns. Just the safety, finishes, kinds of metal or plastic used in it like the GLOCKs, but the basic design of 1911 is present in all pistols. Some manufacturers who are introducing new features in guns sometimes makes the gun prone to jamming or inoperable as it is deviating so much to the main design for a pistol. But that is good on the part of R&D to improve the 1911 model. But saying that Glock is better than the 1911, it looks like some people are claiming that Gaston have introduced an absolute new gun very different of operations than the 1911 models which is to my mind he is one of good imitators also. Like Windows operating system, it is not new because Aple Operating system has been in windows like operating system.

Oh! yes, the police in my country like so much the 1911 but bear in mind that originally .45 pistol is only for officers. And one time I had a target practice in Central Police Command, Quezon City, all the police issued with 9mm Berreta envied me of having an stainless Colt 1991A1. See how they REVERE 1911 models. The young Policeman with his 9mm issued berreta told me if only they had a choice.....

Just a contribution to TFLer’s

Thanks
 
WalterGA II:

This replies to your post re LE agencies in Georgia using Glocks. I suggest the fact Glock's US headquarters is in Cobb County, Georgia, might influence some government -- political -- types, due to jobs, legislative influence, etc.

This is NOT a criticism of Glock; I own one (as well as Sigs, a Kimber, and a pre-WWII Colt). However, political reality sometimes demands procurements that support the local economy -- as well as a reliable, easy-to-master semiautomatic at a "good value" price.
 
One overlooked factor against the 1911 type. The only good way to carry the gun is cocked and locked. When a few LEOs in these parts started carrying 1911s that way, there were a lot of complaints about "unsafe" carry. Some anti-gun types apparently, but mostly ex-GIs who had been taught to carry with chamber empty and hammer down, and considered cocked and locked dangerous.

So PR got in the way, and 1911 types were banned for LEOs.

I have to agree, though, that simplest is best. We tend to forget that even though cops carry guns, most aren't "gun nuts" any more than the average carpenter is a "hammer nut" or a "saw nut". To a cop, the gun is a tool of the trade and often just a plain nuisance.

(I saw one guy who recommended .50 Desert Eagles for police. Obviously he had never tried carrying one of those monsters on an eight hour shift.)

Jim
 
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