Three Year Old Shoots Father with Glock

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Drakejake

New member
(I will explain why this message belongs on this forum.)

Here in Nashville a rookie policeman was just shot and killed by his three year old son firing his father's Glock M22 .40. The policeman had just gotten home after his day on patrol. He took his duty belt with pistol off and put it on the kitchen table and turned to talk to his wife. His three year old son grabbed the Glock and put one round into the officer's back. The shot was fatal.

Obviously, the first lesson is do not give up control of a loaded weapon, even for a second, except to trusted, qualified persons. But I post this message because I believe it confirms my belief that Glocks are less safe than some other pistols. I do not believe this accident would have happened if the officer had done the same things with a Ruger with the safety on, for example. The existence of the manual safety and the heavy double action trigger would have made the accident less likely.

I have no doubt that the Glock, with its short, light trigger, and no manual safety, is likely to be involved in more accidents than DAO or double/single action pistols with safeties. This doesn't mean that the Glock is a bad design, only that it is more likely to be fired accidently than some other handguns.

Drakejake
 
There was a thread started on this last night...I just dont remember where? It a tragedy and a very sad situation...
Shoot well
 
My $0.02

Using the media's report of a single tragic event to further one's own viewpoint on a particular brand of firearm is no different than the gun-grabber's means of furthering their agenda by citing irrevelant statisics and media rhetoric.

As a 17 yr Paramedic veteran (retired), I have seen many incidents that were nothing more than accidents (OR criminal acts) that the media reported totally opposite of what really happened. I have seen the results of accidental (or negligent) discharges from single-shot rifles, pump shotguns, revolvers...etc. Yes, even an "unloaded" Glock.

If you have personal or inside information on this incident, you did not indicate so in your post. My personal opinion is you should "think twice, post once!"

PS: I own Glocks, 1911's and revolvers, let the flames begin!
 
"If you have personal or inside information on this incident, you did not indicate so in your post. My personal opinion is you should "think twice, post once!" (quoted from prior post)

My advice is that you should follow your own advice before offering it to others. If you read my message more carefully you would have seen that I referred to the physical characteristics of Glocks and other types of firearms, and not just to the newspaper report. Smearing me as the same as a "gungrabber," whatever that is, doesn't constitute a rebuttal of what I wrote, nor an intelligent contribution to a discussion on gun safety.

I do not believe that this incident is isolated. I believe that there have been many examples of accidental discharges of Glocks, including those by policemen. That is why some major police organizations have modified the trigger on their duty Glocks to make them more like double action triggers. IMO carrying a loaded and chambered Glock is virtually the same as carrying a single action pistol loaded, cocked, and UNLOCKED. I think the Glock "safety trigger" is a joke. Just my opinion.

Now I am off to the gun show where I may be able to "grab some guns."

Drakejake
 
So you're saying that its the GUN'S fault that the cop was killed!? This was complete negligence by the officer who left his duty belt unattended. Did he start going over firearm safety with his son? Age three might be a little too young but he should have not left his gear sitting out, even for a second. So if the officer was carrying a S&W Model 10 you think that this incident could have been prevented? The reason why there are so many "accidents" with Glocks (and all other firearms) is because someone usually pulls the trigger when its loaded. This tragedy could have been easily prevented.
 
My apologies!

I thought you said: "I post this message because I believe it confirms my belief that Glocks are less safe than some other pistols." and used this media report as a prime example.
 
I have deep anguish in my heart for the mother and the son as a father and husband. We are dealing with a finite situation here---------------the use of handguns. I am glad this officer is not on the street to possibly hurt another innocent individual. It is obvious he had NO business with any firearm much less a handgun.

Think I am harsh and judgemental? As I post this I tremble at the thought of myself becoming complacent with a firearm and having an accident like this. By no stretch of the imagination do I think I have reached my peak in the are of safe firearms handling.

The point must be made that this person's actions were unacceptable. Again that may be harsh but it is the cold hard truth. Another cold hard fact is that ALL handguns are dangerous and just because this happened to be a Glock makes no difference. Does anyone think the outcome would have been different with a Sig Sauer Classic or Smith and Wesson Revolver? Does anyone here TRUST a manual safety? I hope not.
 
I read this story last night, and I think it is just plain negligence on the part of the father. I don't think that Glocks are any less safe than other guns, they are just designed so that the gun will fire when the trigger is pulled, and not unless the trigger is pulled, without the deactivation of any external safeties. I very much disagree with the stated opinion that "carrying a loaded and chambered Glock is virtually the same as carrying a single action pistol loaded, cocked, and UNLOCKED", the pistol you describe in that situation will likely go off if dropped, a Glock will not. It will only go off if the trigger is pulled, as it is designed to do. A Glock with a chambered round should always be in a holster that covers the trigger guard, and all guns should be placed out of easy access to young, untrained children. I've read reported incidents of 3 year old children racking the slide on a 1911 and firing it. You cannot blame the tools when the tools operate in the manner in which they are designed to operate. It's all a matter of proper gun handling and safety, which this policeman obviously didn't follow.
 
What a tragic event.

A couple of things about this make me think we're not getting the whole story, or this was the result of a profound lack of common sense.

1: The combination of weight of the weapon, and retention systems in the holster should have made it impossible for a 3 yr old to remove the weapon from the holster.

2: That bullet should have hit a vest before it hit his back. The vest he was wearing should have stopped any ammunition he'd be carrying.

I too am a medic and have been working in a major metropolitan area for almost 10 years. The media has an amazing way of over-simplifying things to a ridiculous extent. Reading media descriptions of crime scenes I've been in gives me doubt about many things they say. Heresay seems to get reported as fact in many situations.

Again, what a shame that this happened.
Tol
 
I agree this incident may not have happened with a Beretta 92 with the safety on in a level three holster (not that it would be safe to leave that combo in reach of a three old!)

However... There have also been cases of police being killed because they could not draw from "safety" holsters under stress and I know of cases involving civillians who did not release thier safety when they were trying to shoot a BG with less than desireable consequences. These incidents have also happened costing innocent lives, and have likely occured more than reported because who knows what really happend if an Officer is found on the dead after a traffic stop with the gun in his holster or in his hand. There is no way to determine if these safety devices were misused under pressure or if they simply never had time to use them correctly.

The "(whatever) is better than Glock when you break commonsense rules of safety" argument does not wash for me. If you don't do stupid things the Glock is safe, if your prone to doing stupid things with guns the Beretta wil bite you too. Just read about a soldier shooting himself in the foot with a M-9 while on airport detail (maybe it's 13# double action trigger is too light and unsafe a 26# trigger option for really dumb types;) ).
 
If I may recount a personal story.

A year ago I purchased a KP95DC for use in IDPA. My son was using such a gun and I was tired of getting beat badly by him when I used my KP95DAO.
The first match I shot was one at Tulsa. At the first stage I told the SO that I was using a DC model and that, being used to a DAO, would he mind watching to be sure that I decocked before holstering. No problem he said. And I did what I was supposed to on that stage.
Two stages later I loaded and holstered and then I wondered if I had decocked. I looked down and found that I had not decocked. I gingerly removed the gun from the holster and pointed it down range and decocked. That shook me up so much that I missed the easy head shots on two of the first three targets. That was the last time I ever did that. If any thing now I try to decock my DAO before holstering.
I said all that to say that I too once thought that Glocks were inherently dangerous because of the trigger setup. That was prior to a year ago when I received my Glock 32 for Christmas.
Since then I have learned that only the old rule need appy to make it as safe as any other firearm: Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. If anything my KP95DC, when cocked, is more "dangerous" than my Glock. And with the new 3.5# connector the Glock is much easier to shoot well.
 
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I believe it confirms my belief that Glocks are less safe than some other pistols. I do not believe this accident would have happened if the officer had done the same things with a Ruger with the safety on

BS. If he was careless enough to leave it out do you think he woud have had a safety on. Besides if I had to use a ruger I wouldn't use the manual safety model. GLocks are as a safe as any other model. And all guns are only as safe as their owners. Saying the glock was at fault here is the same as saying that guns are at fault for all murders.

PAT
 
Errr, I have a REAL problem with this one......

Let's get this one straight.........

The cop takes off his duty belt, and lays it on the table, right?

Weapon still in the holster?

And gets promptly shot in the back by a three year old?

Well, let's see. I just read the post. I promptly went into the closet, and got out my duty belt. I then took my duty gun, a Glock 22, double checked to make sure that it was clear, and called my wife into the bedroom. I holstered the gun, closed the retention device (it's a Safariland SLS) and told my wife about the post. I then invited her to pull the trigger without taking the gun from the holster.

It has been a requirement of virtually EVERY holster sold for duty carry to cover the trigger guard fully. My wife found it IMPOSSIBLE to pull or even access the trigger with the gun in the holster. And, this was a three year old?

And, as an added plus--if the guy was in uniform, where was his BODY ARMOR, and why did it not stop a handgun round?

I smell a preponderance of El Toro poo-poo here..................
 
I carry a G19 during the winter as a self-defense firearm, but I would not if I considered it "less" safe than any other handgun. If I take it off, I NEVER leave it where one of my my kids can find it without me noticing that they are somewhere they should not be.

If anyone is concerned by the Glock's "lack" of external safety devices, there is a little device on the market, a trigger block, that fits behind the Glock trigger inside the trigger guard, and makes the trigger impossible to move rearward. It can be easily pushed out with the trigger finger in order to operate the gun, but makes for an unobtrusive safety device.
 
For the life of me I can't imagine how the kid got the gun out of any type of duty rig. In this case, the holster should have been the "external safety device" the Glock otherwise lacks.

Glocks are holster guns! If I had to stick an auto in my waist band and go, it would not have a "safe action" trigger or similar. I would do it with a DA auto, though.

I think you could say that it is a failing on the Glock's part that it can ONLY safely be used with a holster. This particular instance makes for a bad example of a valid point - I too wish there was more than good habits to safeguard against AD's with this weapon.
 
Handy sums it up well. The Glock is a holster gun, and anyone who has used them very much understands it. Without a holster, the Glock is very unforgiving because the holster is the Glock's manual safety.
 
Some folks just love to hate Glock handguns. If this story had involved a Ruger or a 1911 would you think they were suddenly less safe?:rolleyes:
 
First, it is a real tragic event to have ANYONE accidently shot. And shot by a 3 year old who gets ahold of a Glock!
Yes, the victim was at fault! But,............. what if there had been a possitive safety on the weapon and it was engaged, maybe the 3 year old would of not been able to; disengage the safety and then pull the trigger. Maybe his father would still be alive?

How many members of TFL have had an AD with a Glock? How many with OTHER handguns, rifles or shotguns?

Why didn't the U.S. Military adopt the Glock if it's so good?

I think they are fine weapons, but they need a possitive safety and do away with the trigger saftey as the only saftey.

Sorry gang, I don't buy it. Glocks are to easy to fire, on purpose or by accident.

Clem
 
Regardless of what kind of handgun the officer had, he should not have left it unsupervised.The kid may or may not have been able to shoot a Ruger or 1911 if he had one instead.The death resulted in firearm negligence, not manufacturer error.
 
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