Thoughts on CCW classes...

In my opinion there are basically 2 kinds of classes:

1. A sub basic handgun 101 type of class which is taught by someone who has taken a 3day (or less) instructors course

2. A Tactical class that is typically taught at a school by career professionals.

If it were me, I would save up money and go to a firearms dedicated school and take whatever level of levels were appropriate to my skill level.
 
Minnesota law requires a shooting QUALIFICATION exercise.
I have failed people in the past and that only comes after working with them after class and in some cases providing a different handgun.
I have had many who come to class with DA handguns that they have never fired DA and I do require the handgun to be used the way it was designed, and encourage the use of Double Action and practice what I teach.
I would say that an instructor like what you describe in your OP is not following the Statute.

*
* * * * * Sec. 7. *Minnesota Statutes 2002, section 624.714, is
* * * *amended by adding a subdivision to read:
* * * * * Subd. 2a. *[TRAINING IN THE SAFE USE OF A PISTOL.] (a) An
* * * *applicant must present evidence that the applicant received
* * * *training in the safe use of a pistol within one year of the date
* * * *of an original or renewal application. *Training may be
* * * *demonstrated by:
* * * * * (1) employment as a peace officer in the state of Minnesota
* * * *within the past year; or
* * * * ** (2) completion of a firearms safety or training course
* * * *providing basic training in the safe use of a pistol and
* * * *conducted by a certified instructor.
* * * * * (b) Basic training must include:
* * * * * *(1) instruction in the fundamentals of pistol use;
* * * * * *(2) successful completion of an actual shooting
* * * *qualification exercise; and
* * * * **(3) instruction in the fundamental legal aspects of pistol
* * * *possession, carry, and use, including self-defense and the
* * * *restrictions on the use of deadly force.
* * * * * (c) A person qualifies as a certified instructor if the
* * * *person is certified as a firearms instructor within the past
* * * *five years by:
Click to expand...
 
To the OP, yes some instructors may be falling short as an instructor not giving good info or enough or whatever. But complaint is not fixing anything, why don't you get your instructor license and give your classes the info that you failed to receive?
 
here's a question ( yep, I'm being selfish at this point )... would a Gun Site or similar class taken out of state get me the qualification I need for license renewal, or would I still be stuck taking a sub par "in state" class to get my renewal ???

BTW... I'm a patient person, would make a great teacher... in my defense, I honestly don't have time, between job, keeping our 100 year old farm held together...& existing hobbies ( I almost never watch TV, read, play games... I just don't have time...

... so while I could say, I would make a great teacher, I honestly don't have time...:o
 
I am not going to argue the 2A and those rights.
The fact is that most states require some amount of training to carry a concealed firearm.

Having assisted to a small extent a friend who has conducted classes for over 10 years, I have found that almost no one is interested in anything except to legally carry. Some never carry even though legal.

As to competency, the average graduate is not one I would trust to shoot inside a church, theater, or even a McD. The state requirements are for 25 rounds; 15 at 3 yards, and 10 at 7 yards. Target is 12X18 inches with no time limit. Of course many score 95% and above.

I suspect that no one thinks that an attack is going to take place at a distance farther than about 3-5 yards, and it is not necessary to carry much, if any, extra ammunition. Reloading speed is not stressed in classes.

Personally, I do not object to the requirement for some training in safety, laws, anger management, and proficiency. NM requires a minimum of 15 hours including range time.

Jerry
 
I object to training requirements. Self defense is a basic human right, and I object on a very profound level to the notion that any basic human right must pass through a bureaucratic bottleneck before it may be freely exercised.

At the same time, I think those who voluntarily undertake to learn more are being smart and responsible. And those who do not, are not.

Also, this:

People who are least skilled are also least able to judge their own (lack of) competence, or even to assess how much competence they need in order to do the things they plan to do.

Fortunately, most of the time simply waving the gun at the bad guy does the trick. That's good, because most people carry the gun more like a rabbit's foot than like a working tool.

pax
 
Yea, I hear ya about not having the time. It's hard for us all to find the extra time. Maybe next time of complaining of something not being right one could do better making it right or just leaving it alone all together and not wasting time on here posting anything and spending your time doing something more constructive. Just saying...
 
pretty harsh there BUCK... good thing all us shooters back each other up...

I suppose the mods could just delete this thread, since you think I'm wasting time & bandwidth...
 
MWM, first of all, I find it a little disconcerting that the application packet can be found on the website for the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.
Click to expand...
Spat's could you explain why that is disconcerting?
I encourage those taking my class to download the application so that they can fill out all the residency requirements and such rather than picking up an app. At the S.O. and taking it home to complete. Of course if your background is generic it can be filled out on the spot.
Application (turning in and submitting required funds) must be done in person and signing it acknowledges that any false information is a crime.

Pax, I enjoyed reading the D/K study and a good modle for this would be some of the participants from the Top Shot series. I remember some of those that were tripping over their lower lip as they were eliminated.
And, their are those that are naturally darn good competitors and preform well in most everything they do.
 
It's just the name, I guess. It seems like you should go to "Concealed Carry Licensing Services," or somthing like that to get the list, not "Bureau of Criminal Apprehension." Like someone from BCA will be waiting for you with handcuffs when you show up to pick up the list.
 
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