thoughts for making 223 brass into 380 (please read for more info)

Mik, I consider can or can't do things on two or three points.

First, every steel case I have seen was berdan primed, because every maker of steel cases is fully aware that they are not appropriate for reloading. Berdan primers were at least ostensibly used in military brass to prevent the cases from being used again. Tearing out a berdan primer anvil to use the case again must be one of the most futile ideas that I have ever heard of. berdan primed steel brass is also, to my understanding, not cut to the same size as a boxer primer for that very same reason.

Second, you yourself admit that they shouldn't be used more than a few times, what is the point of spending all of the time fashioning steel cases to use, just to throw them out after a few loads?

Steel isn't meant to be reused. Steel is not at all flexible enough to use multiple times. that steel ammo is cheap drawn steel, not the type that will hold up under pressure or working. a person who reloads steel may manage to go through a thousand rounds before a catastrophic accident occurs, but mark my word, it will happen, especially with a rifle load. I guess that a pistol load may be safer, but what happens when the case separates at the chamber? I know. it's a mess.

I'm not the best reloader here, but I am probably on of the most conservative. I wouldn't touch that idea, reloading steel, with a ten mile long pole.

I guess that my point is, that just because you can make the physical round, you can't fire it safely with absolute confidence. Yes, you can, on the one hand, but no, you can't do it with a whole lot of confidence.
 
briandg said:
Steel is not at all flexible enough to use multiple times.
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Steel is plenty flexible enough to be used multiple times in a cartridge case so long as you keep the pressure low enough. For the Op's purpose of shooting primer-propelled wax bullets, he will never have to resize, bell, or crimp the case. The wax bullets will wear his barrel out before he wears out one of his modified steel cases.
 
Years ago I had some .38 special plastic cases that used standard primers and rubber bullets for "practice". I quickly learned that a standard primer would put one through a hollow core door after passing though a cardboard box.
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Tried the same thing a few years ago with a .45LC and wax bullets made from hot glue gun sticks. Right through the cardboard box and one heck of a dent in the garage door. :eek:
 
if you keep the pressure low enough? Why would you say it's safe and then qualify it by saying that you can't reload it as you would brass?I've seen the damage that just stepping on these things can do. Nick showed a perfect example of what can happen when these are handled too much. The steel is not machine grade, it's probably recycled, and formulated to work through enough workings to form the cases. They are not designed to be reloaded, and choosing to so so for standard loads is crazy. The OP hasn't said anything about reloading them in a normal manner, and sure, if he wants to use them to fire wax bullets, there are plenty of other objections, but I don't think that anyone at any time said that shooting wax bullets out of steel would be dangerous, just reloading them for standard use.

All you could find in that post that you could disagree with was your belief that steel is flexible enough to reload a number of times? Tell me, have you ever done it, or is this just second , third, or even fourth hand information?
 
For home practice, just get a CO2 powered blowback airsoft replica.
More recoil (about like a .22), better accuracy and less noise, without contaminating the air with fired primers.
 
Mik, I consider can or can't do things on two or three points.

First, every steel case I have seen was berdan primed, because every maker of steel cases is fully aware that they are not appropriate for reloading. Berdan primers were at least ostensibly used in military brass to prevent the cases from being used again. Tearing out a berdan primer anvil to use the case again must be one of the most futile ideas that I have ever heard of. berdan primed steel brass is also, to my understanding, not cut to the same size as a boxer primer for that very same reason.

Second, you yourself admit that they shouldn't be used more than a few times, what is the point of spending all of the time fashioning steel cases to use, just to throw them out after a few loads?

Steel isn't meant to be reused. Steel is not at all flexible enough to use multiple times. that steel ammo is cheap drawn steel, not the type that will hold up under pressure or working. a person who reloads steel may manage to go through a thousand rounds before a catastrophic accident occurs, but mark my word, it will happen, especially with a rifle load. I guess that a pistol load may be safer, but what happens when the case separates at the chamber? I know. it's a mess.

I'm not the best reloader here, but I am probably on of the most conservative. I wouldn't touch that idea, reloading steel, with a ten mile long pole.

I guess that my point is, that just because you can make the physical round, you can't fire it safely with absolute confidence. Yes, you can, on the one hand, but no, you can't do it with a whole lot of confidence.
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My post was in reply to another poster's implications that the process was "impossible". I pointed out how to go about the process of making steel cases into wax firing ammo. I also noted, as many others, that steel cases are not optimal for reloading, but it has been done, by many. Converting Berdan to Boxer is a common topic of discussion and many have done it.

I seriously doubt if steel was used for case material because of it's short life or the Berdan primer system is used to thwart reloading. During wartime brass and copper were in short supply and soft steel was plentiful, so steel was uses for case material. Berdan priming became popular in Europe prior to wartime shortages and was carried over to steel cases because that's what the manufacturers were set up to make. Boxer and Berdan primers are different sized, perhaps because Boxer primers are made in/for the US to US standards of measurement and never meant to be substituted for European made Berdan primers manufactured to European standards of measurements. (SAE vs Metric?).

None of the suggestions/explanations I made were/are unsafe. I explained how these things can and were done, that's all. I advocated thinking, nothing else.

"Forward thinking" is the term I used for open mindedness, thinking about new and better things associated with reloading, not considering an old topic (folks have been talking about reloading steel and converting Berdan primed cases every since they became available to civilian shooters/reloaders).

FWIW a good material for wax bullets is a mix of Carnauba wax and paraffin, mebbe with a bit of Beeswax to make them "slicker"...
__________________
 
Didn't Mean To Start A War

I do not intend to reload these with powder and lead. i also didn't mean to start the if steel is reloadable debate. This may seem like a waste of time and you might be right but it also sounds fun to me and i enjoy such projects.

Also i have some steel case ammo with boxer primers. Its my understanding that the reason steel is made with berdan is because its not made in the US where boxer primers are about all you can get. In other countries its easier to get berdan.
 
briandg said:
Tell me, have you ever done it, or is this just second , third, or even fourth hand information?
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Can't say that I've ever done it, I have more brass than a dozen people could reload in their lifetime.

However, after the first Gulf War, when ammo and reloading supplies of all types were in short supply, I knew several people in the local gun club who reloaded steel cases with no problem. They also reloaded aluminum cases. Does that qualify as second, third, or fourth hand?

briandg said:
Steel isn't meant to be reused. Steel is not at all flexible enough to use multiple times.
Click to expand...

Given your obvious minimal knowledge of material properties, I'm very surprised that any ammo companies bothered to consult you about their intentions for their fired cartridge cases.

However, I also have access to the internet and know how to operate the website known as "Google".

Some people are intelligent enough to learn from other's experience, some require personal experience to learn.

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2013/02/14/reloading-steel-cases-reload-steel-case-ammo/

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/3...ases__________________A_work_in_progress.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1-fRPmd7FE
 
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I do not intend to reload these with powder and lead. i also didn't mean to start the if steel is reloadable debate. This may seem like a waste of time and you might be right but it also sounds fun to me and i enjoy such projects.

Also i have some steel case ammo with boxer primers. Its my understanding that the reason steel is made with berdan is because its not made in the US where boxer primers are about all you can get. In other countries its easier to get berdan
Click to expand...
I don't know the entire history of Berdan priming, but I suspect the majority of Berdan primed steel cases are manufactured in Europe by manufacturing companies already set up for Berdan primed cases, so why change? At least I haven't read/heard of any US manufacturing of steel cases. I too have seen Boxer primed steel cases, not a lot, but some.

No arguments going on, just correcting misconceptions (:rolleyes:). "Projects" keep hobbies interesting and thinking, experimenting (safely) is a huge part of reloading for me. If I were to find one powder, one bullet, use one load, I would get bored really fast and prolly give up reloading...:o
 
Our hobby has many facets, all of them very interesting.
But for me, the attraction for reloading has always been to be able to keep shooting affordable.
While reloading is enjoyable in its own right, shooting the ammo is always primary.
For the few folks whose shooting skills have earned them the sponsorship of an ammo manufacturer, life is good indeed.
 
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