Thought on using a suppressed pistol for HD

Hal

New member
It makes perfect sense to me since it will save everyone's hearing should it ever be needed - - but - given the prejudice towards anything like that - would it have an impact in civil proceedings?

The ignorant masses are so easily influenced by media hype I can see it being turned into a real expensive settlement.

Or maybe I just don't trust ignorant people to accept the truth about something....
 
You’re right. It makes perfect sense, and the prosecutor would have a field day, especially if that suppressor were attached to an AR. Then there is the civil suite.

Unfortunately, right vs wrong sometimes takes a back seat to public opinion.


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I keep a suppressed AR for HD.

And thats what QD mounts are for. It doesnt have to be on there when anyone gets there. ;)
 
Personally, I wouldn't have a concern. I live in Texas, not Washington State.:rolleyes:

A justified shooting in your "castle" ends with no possibility of a civil suit.

I also understand Texas laws and what I am allowed to protect in the day, nighttime, and in my home. The weapon I legally own and chose to use would not be a concern for me.
 
Personally, I wouldn't have a concern. I live in Texas, not Washington State.:rolleyes:

A justified shooting in your "castle" ends with no possibility of a civil suit.

I also understand Texas laws and what I am allowed to protect in the day, nighttime, and in my home. The weapon I legally own and chose to use would not be a concern for me.



I believe you. I live in Louisiana. Not all states are as free.


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"...an impact in civil proceedings?..." Depends on how good your lawyer is. Same as using hand loaded ammo. He who has the best lawyer wins.
An AR, suppressed or not, is not suitable for HD in most places. Far too much penetration. You kill somebody away down the street, you are guilty of manslaughter/second degree murder. Even in Texas.
"...on there when anyone gets there..." That will cause you more grief than leaving the thing on. The Prosecution will make that look like you had something to hide and/or had an ulterior motive for shooting. Even the best defence guy would have a problem proving otherwise.
 
An AR, suppressed or not, is not suitable for HD in most places. Far too much penetration. You kill somebody away down the street, you are guilty of manslaughter/second degree murder. Even in Texas.
"...on there when anyone gets there..." That will cause you more grief than leaving the thing on. The Prosecution will make that look like you had something to hide and/or had an ulterior motive for shooting. Even the best defence guy would have a problem proving otherwise.

I think its been pretty much shown that .223/5.56, especially with the right bullets, penetrates/over penetrates less in structures (and people) than 9mm.

Using hand loaded ammo has been pretty much debunked too. ;)

As far as taking the suppressor off after the fact, how are they ever going to know it was on there in the first place? All my AR's have the same muzzle device that doubles as a mount. It could be on any of them.

Same goes for a number of my Glocks as well, as they have threaded barrels. Whos to say where it was at any given moment?

And realistically, who cares if it is on there? My only real concern is losing it to the police after the fact and wondering if and when Im ever getting it back.

The fact it was on there is no different than anything else on the gun at the time. If I took the red dot, light, and sling off, whats the difference? And I might as well take them too, as thats another chunk of change I likely wont be getting back, or at least how it was when it was taken.
 
I think its been pretty much shown that .223/5.56, especially with the right bullets, penetrates/over penetrates less in structures (and people) than 9mm.



Using hand loaded ammo has been pretty much debunked too. ;)



As far as taking the suppressor off after the fact, how are they ever going to know it was on there in the first place? All my AR's have the same muzzle device that doubles as a mount. It could be on any of them.



Same goes for a number of my Glocks as well, as they have threaded barrels. Whos to say where it was at any given moment?



And realistically, who cares if it is on there? My only real concern is losing it to the police after the fact and wondering if and when Im ever getting it back.



The fact it was on there is no different than anything else on the gun at the time. If I took the red dot, light, and sling off, whats the difference? And I might as well take them too, as thats another chunk of change I likely wont be getting back, or at least how it was when it was taken.



Right on the penetration. On noise, your neighbors and/or the surviving intruder will know.

If you have it on before the shooting, leave it on afterwards.


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On or not, pretty much everyone is going to know there were gunshots, 5.56 isnt all that quiet. Indoors, its still going to be loud.

Hey, if you want to leave it on, be my guest. You do whats best for you. I really dont see what bearing its going to have on anything one way or the other. And theres really no way to prove it was on there either, even if you arent using a QD mount.
 
And thats what QD mounts are for. It doesnt have to be on there when anyone gets there.
It is inadvisable, and almost certainly illegal to alter the scene of a crime intentionally. If it comes out--and there's a reasonable chance that it could--it would be considered as evidence of guilt. (Remember that any shooting is the scene of a crime unless it is accidental--in which case it might or might not be criminal.) Even if the shooting is justified, a crime was still committed (by the attacker) or there would have been no justification for the shooting.

If, for example, the shooting takes place at close range, stippling on the attacker should be evident. If there is none (and there probably wouldn't be with a suppressor), that would call defender's version of the events into question.

Do not, under any circumstances, alter the scene of a shooting before the authorities arrive unless it is obviously necessary for safety or to treat a victim. That's if you are innocent. If you murdered someone then I guess that's a different story.

Ok, to the original question:

IF the situation is clear-cut, the suppressor would probably not be a legal issue. If, there were any questions about the circumstances of the shooting, I think the use of a suppressor could be a complicating issue in a legal defense. It's going to be pretty easy to spin.

1. The media (both in terms of news and entertainment) tend to be very negative about silencers and a lot of people get their views from the media. They are portrayed as being used primarily by criminals--an incorrect portrayal, but still one that has shaped the views of hundreds of millions of potential jurors/grand jurors.

2. Many people believe silencers are outright illegal--and, in fact, in some places they are. Even where they are not illegal, they are still heavily regulated and the laws are not well understood, even by most in the gun community.

3. People are unlikely to be able to identify with silencer owners/ users because there just aren't that many silencer owners out there, in the overall scheme of things. In TX (where there are more silencers owned than in any other state), only about 0.6% of the population owns one. Even amongst gun owners in TX, fewer than 2% own silencers.

As far as the utility of silencers goes, there are some things to consider:

1. If you are the only person who fires a gun in the situation, then, yes, it would be much better for your ears. Unfortunately, if the attacker has a firearm, it's highly unlikely that their firearm will be suppressed.

2. Suppressors tend to negatively affect the reliability of typical locked breech/floating barrel handguns. They shouldn't have any effect on fixed barrel designs, but those aren't common in calibers above .380ACP/9mmMak. If I were using a suppressor on a floating barrel handgun for non-recreational purposes, I would want to spend a good deal of time insuring that the suppressor/handgun/ammo combination was adequately reliable.
A justified shooting in your "castle" ends with no possibility of a civil suit.
That's what the law says.

I asked a lawyer who is very involved in gun rights what would be adequate proof that the shooting was "justified" and he admitted that the law was vague on that issue and it was not possible to say with certainty.

He felt that being tried and acquitted would almost certainly constitute proof that the shooting was justified, but didn't know if simply not being prosecuted would be accepted as proof--or even if getting a no bill from a grand jury would.

Just something to keep in mind. Things are often more complicated than they initially seem.
 
I'm with JohnKSa. If if is a justifiable shooting the use of a suppressor should be a non-issue. If the shooting is questionable then it might make things harder on someone.
 
I run cans on my HD guns. Both pistol and AR for a couple of reasons.

First, an AR is stupid loud indoors/in confined spaces. The pressure wave is just horrible in a hallway for example.
Second, the flash from shorter barrels is horrible in the darkened interior of a house.

So, you basically flash-bang yourself with every press of the trigger. That makes subsequent communication with family members difficult, and you MUST communicate during and after the shooting portion of the fight.

Even my HD handgun (S&W m&p 9mm) is loud indoors without the can.

So, i have the cans—-why not use em? It just makes sense to me to reduce flash and blast to the degree possible. Especially indoors.

I dont worry about any possible fallout for using a legally registered, tax stamped suppressor INSIDE my home in a defensive encounter. Can it be a problem, maybe. But, its pretty far down the list of issues im going to have to deal with
 
Counter point. I personally would kind of like the WHOLE neighborhood calling the cops if I ever have the misfortune of gunfight in my house.
 
Counter point. I personally would kind of like the WHOLE neighborhood calling the cops if I ever have the misfortune of gunfight in my house.

You may want that, but that pretty much isn't likely to happen unless you have your windows open and your neighbors have their windows open. Even then, there is an excellent chance that they won't get involved, assuming they understood exactly what went on, which based on previous witness statements, people are often pretty clueless.

We didn't hear it when our neighbor (a cop) shot and killed his wife.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yneeq8hu4Q

This book came out of the event...
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0425244881/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Gunshots inside of a building with closed windows and doors often only sound like low frequency whumps or pop to a person outside of the structure. That sound does not transfer well into another structure that is closed.
 
An AR, suppressed or not, is not suitable for HD in most places. Far too much penetration.
Wow. How many times over the years have you regurgitated this nonsense? And how many times have we told you this is nonsense? Not only are you a treasure trove of bad information, but you repeat that bad information ad nauseum no matter how many times you’ve been corrected here. Good grief...
 
If we look at some of the scenarios where self-defense has caused problems for the shooter, you see it is rarely the “home invasion” scenario.

Gerald Ung was attacked by four guys while walking home after a night on the town when a minor verbal altercation between one of the four and one of Ung’s friends escalated.

Harold Fish was out hiking when two strays approached him aggressively followed by an angrier, more aggressive owner who was angered Fish pointed a gun at his dogs.

Mark Abshire was standing in his yard and yelled at a passing car to slow down. Hijinks ensued.

The two guys in Amarillo were confronting a neighbor over dumping a mattress in their trash.

If you use a suppressed weapon in one of those situations, I’d be willing to bet you are creating some serious optics problems for your lawyer. If you use it to shoot zombie Charlie Manson as he’s chopping through your door with an axe, then probably not an issue.
 
Harold Fish was out hiking when two strays approached him aggressively followed by an angrier, more aggressive owner who was angered Fish pointed a gun at his dogs.

No, he didn't just point a gun at the dogs. The angry owner thought Fish had tried to shoot his dogs. Why? Because Fish fired what Fish described as a "warning shot" into the ground to drive the dogs away. Things escalated from there.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15199221/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/t/trail-evidence/#.XSpugCp7lhE

Fish's aggressor was unarmed.

Fish was initially found guilty under Arizona's laws at the time of the shooting and trial. Fish won the right for a retrial after the law was changed (and that was retroactively applied) and the prosecution did not feel they could attain a guilty verdict given the new law.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/new...-for-shooting-no-new-trial-to-be-held-6630757

I have to laugh at the notion of Fish firing a "warning shot" while dealing with the dogs. Aside from being a noise maker, I have to wonder how much the dogs understand about the ballistic consequences implied when faced with warning shots.

-----------

Gerald Ung and Mark Abshire had problematic shoots as well that went through due process. Sometimes it takes due process to determine that the shoot was good.
 
Hal It makes perfect sense to me since it will save everyone's hearing should it ever be needed - - but - given the prejudice towards anything like that - would it have an impact in civil proceedings?

The ignorant masses are so easily influenced by media hype I can see it being turned into a real expensive settlement.

Or maybe I just don't trust ignorant people to accept the truth about something....
Well, sure, the plaintiff will try and make everything out to show why their client was damaged by your actions.
Reloads
Silencers
Custom parts
Trigger jobs
Using cop killer hollow point curare tipped depleted uranium ammunition
Your online posts about "home defense"
Your door locks were insufficient to keep the plaintiff from entering your home at 3am
Heck, you used a GUN to defend your home you animal.

The plaintiffs attorney will try to show the jury in a civil trial that your actions damaged his client and that you were negligent in your actions.

He'll probably fail, but you'll still have an attorney bill to pay.
 
He'll probably fail, but you'll still have an attorney bill to pay.
That more or less sums up my issues with any of the things you mentioned....

"Probably"....

Going into a high stress life/death - "for all the marbles" situation requires a 100% clear head - meaning no room for "probably".

Oh well...

As far as removing it after the fact.....that's right up there with dragging the body through the window in my thinking. It might have worked once for someone - - but I'm positive if I tried it it would be a no go & I'd get the chair.
 
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