This is what gives the rest of us a bad name
- Thread starter elwaine
- Start date
DonR101395
New member
I have read and know the statutes. I also married an LEO. Just because it's in a statute book doesn't mean it's "right". If you want to steal you should accept whatever happens to you and anyone with you while you commit your crime. If you don't want your wife and kid hurt don't bring them with you to the scene of a crime. If you don't want hurt don't commit a crime.
As to your other ridiculous comments about sharia law etc. nobody ever said anything about sharia law except you. If you want to live in a liberal society where it's ok to steal and your punishment will be a slap on the wrist and some counseling for your poor, misguided, unfortunate soul. I hear Europe is accepting visitors by the thousands.
That Sheriff is a real jackass, I would have charged the thief with child endangering and putting the womans life in danger. He was committing a crime at the time and the circumstances resulted directly from his actions, especially in his attempt to avoid capture.
And I would have given the old farmer a stern warning. It's not like the old days where you are allowed to take the law in your own hands, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" doesn't apply to the average law abiding citizen. I also doubt he knew how much gas the victim of society was stealing but was merely looking out for his neighbor, which at one time was a nice thing to do.
And I would have given the old farmer a stern warning. It's not like the old days where you are allowed to take the law in your own hands, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" doesn't apply to the average law abiding citizen. I also doubt he knew how much gas the victim of society was stealing but was merely looking out for his neighbor, which at one time was a nice thing to do.
Pappy John
New member
Yeah, you start with misdemeanors, and after a few months of not being caught or punished you move up to felonies.
Theft is theft. Should we just let them all go free?
DonR101395:
Boy, you are addressing the most right wing consevative good 'ol boy you'll likely ever meet. Never lived in a city of more than 5,000. I served with the 1st Army, and both my sons served in Iraq. So don't be giving me any of that big city liberal society garbage. There is a big difference between being conservative and being stupid! Folks where I live know how to handle theives, know how to protect our kin and our property, go to church AND have more sense in our trigger fingers and exercise better judgement than you've demonstrated so far. Counseling my foot. It's only because The Good Lord made us both that I don't tell you what I really think.
A somewhat similar thing happened to my friend - he chased down a kid breaking into his car, dragged him back to his house, and held him at gunpoint until the police arrived. When the officers arrived, they told him good job. God bless Texas. 
Story here
Story here
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I call BS on this story. The guy held a "kid" at gunpoint after forcibly abducting him to location other than the one where the crime was committed? Then the police said "good job"?
Once he caught up to the kid the forcibly took him anywhere he was breaking the law even in Texas. Then to hold a minor at "gunpoint" when he was in no fear for his safety?
These are not misdemeanor offenses but are felonies.
Mike P. Wagner
New member
I was taught that is was not right to point a gun at anyone/anything that I was not prepared to shoot.
If the thief had stepped out of his car and started to walk away, would it have been right to shoot him in the back?
It seems to me that you can justify shooting and killing someone when another life (or serious physical injury) is at stake. It strikes me that you cannot kill a man for stelling $5 or $500 dollars worth of anything.
If you aren't justified in killing the man for stealing $5 worth of gasoline, then you don't belong pointing a gun at him.
Mike P. Wagner
BTW, I have lived under shariah (see my sig). At least where I lived, this would almost certainly not be a "cutting off the hand".
dixierifleman
Moderator
this was no child. this was a 28 year old adult. read all of the article and youll also see that the shotgun wasnt even loaded.
Yes, I am fully aware of the difference between a felony and misdemeanor crime. However, larceny is considered a "breach of the peace" crime, and therefore, is subject to a citizen's arrest by one who observed the crime. Furthermore, one is required to effect such an arrest with the minimum amount of force necessary.
Here, you have a 70-something year old man attempting to detain a presumably healthy 28 yr old suspect. Seems to me that the disparity in force was such that the elderly gentleman had reasonable grounds to believe the younger man could easily resist said detention, and harm him in a serious manner. Thus, the gun was warranted, in my opinion. If the elderly gentleman had shot the subject, or even struck him with the gun, there would be an excessive force issue.
For the record, the lawful detention of a subject for a crime which was witnessed by a legally entitled citizen is a far, far cry from Sharia law. Holding one accountable for his actions is a cornerstone of this nation. Basic, fundamental laws, such as Don't Kill, Don't Rape, Don't Steal, must be upheld. Law Enforcement cannot be everywhere at every time, and its about time that people started pulling their heads out of the sand and realizing this.
If you do not feel that the theft of five gallons of gas that your neighbor paid for with money he sweated to earn is not worth arresting the subject, then that is completely your call. This gentleman felt otherwise, and in my opinion, was within the law in doing so. The sheriff's department apparently felt otherwise, and now it is in the hands of the Prosecutors and Judges assigned this case.
Here, you have a 70-something year old man attempting to detain a presumably healthy 28 yr old suspect. Seems to me that the disparity in force was such that the elderly gentleman had reasonable grounds to believe the younger man could easily resist said detention, and harm him in a serious manner. Thus, the gun was warranted, in my opinion. If the elderly gentleman had shot the subject, or even struck him with the gun, there would be an excessive force issue.
For the record, the lawful detention of a subject for a crime which was witnessed by a legally entitled citizen is a far, far cry from Sharia law. Holding one accountable for his actions is a cornerstone of this nation. Basic, fundamental laws, such as Don't Kill, Don't Rape, Don't Steal, must be upheld. Law Enforcement cannot be everywhere at every time, and its about time that people started pulling their heads out of the sand and realizing this.
If you do not feel that the theft of five gallons of gas that your neighbor paid for with money he sweated to earn is not worth arresting the subject, then that is completely your call. This gentleman felt otherwise, and in my opinion, was within the law in doing so. The sheriff's department apparently felt otherwise, and now it is in the hands of the Prosecutors and Judges assigned this case.
You know I was stranded on the side of the road once out of gas. I rolled to a toll booth and asked the lady at the office if I could borrow gas. No. I'll pay you double whatever it's worth. No, we don't loan gas; we don't sell gas. Surely you have a gas can around here. Please, I'm begging you. I'll refill your can and give you ten bucks- it's all I have. Nope, she told me, I'd have to walk to a gas station. How far is it? A couple of miles. Crap.
I walked to the back of the office and used the restroom and stood there contemplating. I saw a tank with 500 gallons of diesel fuel, and thought geez I should have bought a diesel. Then I thought there's got to be four acres of grass here. Who the heck mows the grass? I stood there about five minutes lokking at the grass. I turned around to leave and directly behind me was a door with a sign that read "There may be no more than 4 gallons of gasoline stored in this room at any time" I opened the door and sure enough there were two full two gallon gas cans in there. I laid two dollars on the shelf and used one can to fill my car. I left the empty can there, and drove to the gas station.
So, I've been there, and had to depend on the kindness of strangers.
If someone were poor and stranded with his wife and child on the side of the road I would give him $5 worth of gas without a second thought. It's the only decent thing to do. If I wasn't home I wouldn't begrudge him grabbing some out of the shed on a farm I don't even live on. I sure as heck wouldn't chase him down with a shotgun.
I walked to the back of the office and used the restroom and stood there contemplating. I saw a tank with 500 gallons of diesel fuel, and thought geez I should have bought a diesel. Then I thought there's got to be four acres of grass here. Who the heck mows the grass? I stood there about five minutes lokking at the grass. I turned around to leave and directly behind me was a door with a sign that read "There may be no more than 4 gallons of gasoline stored in this room at any time" I opened the door and sure enough there were two full two gallon gas cans in there. I laid two dollars on the shelf and used one can to fill my car. I left the empty can there, and drove to the gas station.
So, I've been there, and had to depend on the kindness of strangers.
If someone were poor and stranded with his wife and child on the side of the road I would give him $5 worth of gas without a second thought. It's the only decent thing to do. If I wasn't home I wouldn't begrudge him grabbing some out of the shed on a farm I don't even live on. I sure as heck wouldn't chase him down with a shotgun.
This event was well broadcast on the radio, and if some you boys would shut your faces (or fingers) and dig deeper you would know that this neighborhood was suffering repeated break-ins with zero to very late police response.
If you are supposed to let the police handle it, then maybe they should get their pig fat buttocks to the area and eliminate the problem.
Bob
Here in Minn. recently an armed ex-boyfriend broke in and and tried to kill the girl and her new companion.
It took the moronic justice (that is a word that is becoming near meaningless) system, over a month to decide not to press charges against the fellow who killed him after he tried to kill them in the bedroom.
One could see the local authority that was interviewed by the way he spoke, he wished like hell he could throw blame on the inteded victims for daring to be so arrogant to defend themselves.
He was near apologetic when he was forced to say, the shooter seemed to have no choice.
Yeh, wait for the police, maybe they wil buy you a nice funeral.
Bob
PS--If I seem a bit harsh on the police, at several firearm events in the past several years, I have spoken with a recently retired Sheriff, and City Police Officer, and both said half of the problem with law enforcement today, is the attitude of law officers, which is coming mainly because they are taught to be "fascist" (Ex law officers term, not mine) pigs at the training centers.
A local policeman in this town, still active, told me that officers no longer have the ok to discern for themselves how to proceed, they will follow written procedure, everytime, or look for another job.
If you are supposed to let the police handle it, then maybe they should get their pig fat buttocks to the area and eliminate the problem.
Bob
Here in Minn. recently an armed ex-boyfriend broke in and and tried to kill the girl and her new companion.
It took the moronic justice (that is a word that is becoming near meaningless) system, over a month to decide not to press charges against the fellow who killed him after he tried to kill them in the bedroom.
One could see the local authority that was interviewed by the way he spoke, he wished like hell he could throw blame on the inteded victims for daring to be so arrogant to defend themselves.
He was near apologetic when he was forced to say, the shooter seemed to have no choice.
Yeh, wait for the police, maybe they wil buy you a nice funeral.
Bob
PS--If I seem a bit harsh on the police, at several firearm events in the past several years, I have spoken with a recently retired Sheriff, and City Police Officer, and both said half of the problem with law enforcement today, is the attitude of law officers, which is coming mainly because they are taught to be "fascist" (Ex law officers term, not mine) pigs at the training centers.
A local policeman in this town, still active, told me that officers no longer have the ok to discern for themselves how to proceed, they will follow written procedure, everytime, or look for another job.
Thanks for pointing that out BobR. They covered this story like crazy on the local radio. The perp was a repeat offender who had basically been terrorizing this area. In fact, he is currently in jail for another gas theft, which happened after this one. He was allowed to drive away from the one in question. The cops had been called on numerous occasions to this neighborhood and had always arrived late or not at all. We've all expressed our opinions here on the thread. The local populace seems to be about 99-1 in favor of what the old guy did. I'm one of the 99. The BG started the trouble. Some of you have forgotten who the BG in this case was. The daughter of the old guy was interviewed on a local radio station this morning. She said that her father was a kind, caring father and neighbor who just couldn't watch this happen... "AGAIN!" The cops in Bradford Township need to be held to account for this crap. The thief who took his girlie and a little kid on a thieving trip needs to be held to account. Those of you who feel differently can sure post an educated opinion when your house gets burglarized three times and the LEOs never show up (maybe two hours later to fill out some paperwork and shake their heads). Post here and let us know, honestly, how you intend to handle break-in number 4.
As an officer, I can tell you that a rural gas theft is a pretty low priority call. Do I like that? No, but them;s the breaks, I suppose. We cannot be everywhere, and there are many of us that don't want to be anywhere, to be brutally honest.
What I don't understand is the Sheriff's response to this situation. They have pretty well demonstrated that they either don't want to help, or aren't able to do so, but when the suspect of several purported thefts is delivered to them on a silver platter, they arrest the one who apprehended him? That simply doesn't compute in my simple, backwoods mind.
Maybe I am wrong, God knows Ive been told that by several of my fellow officers on this and other matters, but then again, maybe I'm not. It really seems to me that if more folks were like the elderly gentleman in this situation, we would be able to do our jobs more effectively, in turn, making the public happier with our performance.
I think it boils down to an effort to save face. I am sure the Sheriff has been saying to previous victims "We are doing all we can,", while all the while taking reports and doing nothing. When podunk Jim, the seventy year old farmer, catches the bad guy, they look like ****. So, to make the bad publicity go away, they make John Q. the bad guy. Looks like the tail wagged the dog this time, thankfully.
What I don't understand is the Sheriff's response to this situation. They have pretty well demonstrated that they either don't want to help, or aren't able to do so, but when the suspect of several purported thefts is delivered to them on a silver platter, they arrest the one who apprehended him? That simply doesn't compute in my simple, backwoods mind.
Maybe I am wrong, God knows Ive been told that by several of my fellow officers on this and other matters, but then again, maybe I'm not. It really seems to me that if more folks were like the elderly gentleman in this situation, we would be able to do our jobs more effectively, in turn, making the public happier with our performance.
I think it boils down to an effort to save face. I am sure the Sheriff has been saying to previous victims "We are doing all we can,", while all the while taking reports and doing nothing. When podunk Jim, the seventy year old farmer, catches the bad guy, they look like ****. So, to make the bad publicity go away, they make John Q. the bad guy. Looks like the tail wagged the dog this time, thankfully.
The entire problem with every example given is that you are blaming the wrong people. The reason there is such a legal problem in this country is due to the fact that you stand a better chance of getting away with the crime.
If you knew for a fact, that if you committed a crime you would be punished, then you wouldn't do it. We as a whole put ourselves in this situation. As soon as criminals became more important than the victims they harm, our legal system took a turn for the worst. The average criminal knows that they have very little to lose in comparison to potential profit to be made in criminial activity. At worst they will plead guilty to a petty crime, go to jail get free healthcare, food, and recreation, then return to society.:barf: Whereas you will pay top dollar for a lawyer to defend yourself, and your tax dollars will see to it that the offender gets counseling so he won't feel so bad about what he did to you. Police arn't the problem, the lawmakers are the ones to blame. The police can arrest every criminal in town, but it takes a Judge to keep them locked up.
If you knew for a fact, that if you committed a crime you would be punished, then you wouldn't do it. We as a whole put ourselves in this situation. As soon as criminals became more important than the victims they harm, our legal system took a turn for the worst. The average criminal knows that they have very little to lose in comparison to potential profit to be made in criminial activity. At worst they will plead guilty to a petty crime, go to jail get free healthcare, food, and recreation, then return to society.:barf: Whereas you will pay top dollar for a lawyer to defend yourself, and your tax dollars will see to it that the offender gets counseling so he won't feel so bad about what he did to you. Police arn't the problem, the lawmakers are the ones to blame. The police can arrest every criminal in town, but it takes a Judge to keep them locked up.