Kreyzhorse
New member
As mentioned, a lot of cops aren't gun experts. I don't think that's a surprise to any one. In my opinion, a ND can happen to anyone and it serves as a reminder about proper gun handling.
This is NOT cop bashing, but...
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Katrina Guy
Moderator
I can top that cop story.
Some ten years or so ago I had two policemen in my apt (long story to which I won't go into now), they saw my 1911 .45 and felt more comfortable while talking if it were unloaded, so to difuse a situation I allowed them to unload the firearm as they didn't want me to touch it of course. Two cops, neither one of them had ever seen a 1911! I mentioned to them in a question form, you do realize how long that gun design has been out right? They were clueless, and were hesitant to go near the .45 since the hammer was back (cocked and locked), had no idea that cocked and locked is the way to carry a 1911 if a round is in the chamber. Totally clueless, I was amazed.
Some ten years or so ago I had two policemen in my apt (long story to which I won't go into now), they saw my 1911 .45 and felt more comfortable while talking if it were unloaded, so to difuse a situation I allowed them to unload the firearm as they didn't want me to touch it of course. Two cops, neither one of them had ever seen a 1911! I mentioned to them in a question form, you do realize how long that gun design has been out right? They were clueless, and were hesitant to go near the .45 since the hammer was back (cocked and locked), had no idea that cocked and locked is the way to carry a 1911 if a round is in the chamber. Totally clueless, I was amazed.
Magnum Wheel Man
New member
1st off... I don't watch that show... or really any other "reality" show... & by nature of the program, they probably like to show things like that... it adds to the drama
& I certainly wouldn't want to bash on the police, sheriffs or any other law enforcement...
but I never understood the lack of knowledge...
it would be like being a race car driver & not knowing anything about the cars mechanical function
or being a truck driver & not having an mechanical knowledge of how the truck functioned...
sure you could be a good police officer & not know anything about guns ( other than your duty weapon ), because there are so many facets of police work... but IMO, you could be a much better officer, if you could tell by looking at a weapon, how many rounds it typically holds, what caliber it is ( & how much penetration the bullet might have ) how to insure it's disabled ( maybe you'll have to help some little old lady sometime who brought an old gun into battery when her house was broken into, etc. ) there are just so many reasons to get to know as many weapons as possible, when your life may depend on it...
... I'm buddys with a couple of local police officers, & I was suprised when I got to know them, that they were not more knowledgable about guns in general than they were... ( one of them comes to me to chat about guns once in a while, but the other really doesn't seem to have any interest in even his duty weapon )
BTW... my neighbors daughter is a detective on a larger metro department, & they even had thier police range shut down, when they made the switch from shotguns to AR type weapons, as they were shooting holes in peoples houses that lived by the police range, because the officers didn't understand the distance the bullets they were shooting could go, the penetration possible, & general lack of basic firearm safety...
& I certainly wouldn't want to bash on the police, sheriffs or any other law enforcement...
but I never understood the lack of knowledge...
it would be like being a race car driver & not knowing anything about the cars mechanical function
or being a truck driver & not having an mechanical knowledge of how the truck functioned...
sure you could be a good police officer & not know anything about guns ( other than your duty weapon ), because there are so many facets of police work... but IMO, you could be a much better officer, if you could tell by looking at a weapon, how many rounds it typically holds, what caliber it is ( & how much penetration the bullet might have ) how to insure it's disabled ( maybe you'll have to help some little old lady sometime who brought an old gun into battery when her house was broken into, etc. ) there are just so many reasons to get to know as many weapons as possible, when your life may depend on it...
... I'm buddys with a couple of local police officers, & I was suprised when I got to know them, that they were not more knowledgable about guns in general than they were... ( one of them comes to me to chat about guns once in a while, but the other really doesn't seem to have any interest in even his duty weapon )
BTW... my neighbors daughter is a detective on a larger metro department, & they even had thier police range shut down, when they made the switch from shotguns to AR type weapons, as they were shooting holes in peoples houses that lived by the police range, because the officers didn't understand the distance the bullets they were shooting could go, the penetration possible, & general lack of basic firearm safety...
About 18 years ago I and a few others were on a road trip out of florida. Got stopped by the Kentucky Highway Patrol... they asked about guns I said had one "stored" in my luggage. They retrieved it and asked if it was loaded. I told them it was not. They proceed to try to manipulate the controls on my S&W .22 semi auto. They were goofin' with it and swept me at which point I made an exaggerated "hit the deck" and they said "WHAT???" I asked them how they felt when a gun was pointed at them... Reply from one of the 2 was "Well it is empty right?" Couldn't help it but "DUHHHH" was the first word out of my mouth... followed by "Neither of you 2 are aware of the rules of safe gun handling and should carry cap guns with orange muzzles!
They tried to say their puter was down and couldn't run it to see if it was stolen and would need to hold it until monday... I said FINE WITH ME BUT I WILL BE IN TOWN IN A MOTEL! I had the receipt in my wallet still as it was only a few months old. Finally, after much wasted time on the side of the road... ended up getting it back and continuing my trip...
Brent
They tried to say their puter was down and couldn't run it to see if it was stolen and would need to hold it until monday... I said FINE WITH ME BUT I WILL BE IN TOWN IN A MOTEL! I had the receipt in my wallet still as it was only a few months old. Finally, after much wasted time on the side of the road... ended up getting it back and continuing my trip...Brent
i know a state policeman here in pa. when they carried colt offical police 38 spl. revolvers, who had reloads in it that had high primers so high you could not fire it double or single action, i know for a fact as he was showing me the revolver at his home one day ,he handed it to me loaded and i tried to unload it and had to bang the cylinder with my hand to get it to open, i said how long have you been carrying this with these shells in it? he said several weeks. we went out back of his house and i loaded the shells back in the gun and tried to shoot it single and double action , no go and i,m 5"11" 218lbs. i told him he was carrying a club not a gun as it would not fire with them shells in. he threw all the reloaded shell away. if he had gotten into a gun fight in that thee weeks he would have lost. eastbank.
Firepower!
New member
well the revolvers can be tricky.
Don't know where he got those reloads.
Law Enforcement is not permitted to carry reloads--at least we never were.
We used reloads provided by the department for qualification but while on duty, we were not permitted to carry reloads--we were provided new factory ammo from the department and got "fresh" rounds every 4 months or so.
Law Enforcement is not permitted to carry reloads--at least we never were.
We used reloads provided by the department for qualification but while on duty, we were not permitted to carry reloads--we were provided new factory ammo from the department and got "fresh" rounds every 4 months or so.
At present I am Military Police in the Reserves and in my unit there are many local police departments represented during the drills. I was shocked to find out that many of the full time police officers really aren't "weapons people". I would bring up and talk about varying weapons issues from politics to the weapons themselves, to shooting basics and they would just kind of go along with whatever I was saying. After cornering a few of them (I have rank 
) I found out that many of them don't shoot much or have any weapons fetishes whatsoever. Nothing wrong with either of those, I just found it surprising as I had ASSUMED that most cops were a little more interested in weapons and enjoyed range time on their own. My bad.
Sarge
) I found out that many of them don't shoot much or have any weapons fetishes whatsoever. Nothing wrong with either of those, I just found it surprising as I had ASSUMED that most cops were a little more interested in weapons and enjoyed range time on their own. My bad.Sarge
I have seen the episode of "Cops" that was mentioned and I wondered how the perp could have had a ND from the gun in question. Carry with a cocked hammer? In a vehicle? 
He also claimed having the handgun in the door panel did not constituted a concealed weapon, because he could see the grips.
He also claimed he was carrying it because he had been fishing and had it for protection against snakes. It appeared he had it loaded with CCI .22 Mag HP's.
He also claimed a cop kicked him in the jaw during the arrest.
It was a domestic disturbance call (the second time to the same residence that day). And a firearm is discharged after the cops arrive. I can understand a cop trying to unload an unfamiliar firearm, at the scene, on camera, being a bit unnerved.
He also claimed having the handgun in the door panel did not constituted a concealed weapon, because he could see the grips.
He also claimed he was carrying it because he had been fishing and had it for protection against snakes. It appeared he had it loaded with CCI .22 Mag HP's.
He also claimed a cop kicked him in the jaw during the arrest.
It was a domestic disturbance call (the second time to the same residence that day). And a firearm is discharged after the cops arrive. I can understand a cop trying to unload an unfamiliar firearm, at the scene, on camera, being a bit unnerved.
i don,t know if they were allowed to carry reloads at that time or not ,it was in the 70,s. but the shells in the belt(double row of 158 round nose 38spls) were coated with some thing to keep them shiny( some kind of lacour or schalleck) they may not have fit in the cylinder either. our local police dept. has a very good in house firearm instructor who makes sure all members are gun smart. eastbank.
WC145 said:
Maybe PBP doesn't want to take the pay cut. Maybe PBP has already been an Army officer and a State Patrolman and you were not aware of it. At any rate he merely made an observation of what a few particular LEOs did and he made it clear that he was not bashing LEOs or stereotyping them in general. So lighten up and lurk more, you might learn something.
By the way its against the forum rules to thinly disguise curse words with symbols.
fbrown333@suddenlink
New member
cops and guns
In my travels I like most here have found that most police are not gun savy. You will find a few but not many. I had one try to unload my .45 one time and he scared the $#@% out of me swinging it all around and such. I had to explain to him how to unload it, he was a revolver man and had not dealt with autos before. I don't hold any ill towards police but like my grandaddy used to say "if you don't know what your doin you'll get someone killed" don't mess with it.
In my travels I like most here have found that most police are not gun savy. You will find a few but not many. I had one try to unload my .45 one time and he scared the $#@% out of me swinging it all around and such. I had to explain to him how to unload it, he was a revolver man and had not dealt with autos before. I don't hold any ill towards police but like my grandaddy used to say "if you don't know what your doin you'll get someone killed" don't mess with it.
Once when
I was assigned to the DEA task Force,a DEA agent,who was a former local cop noticed my 1911 cocked and locked on my hip and exclaimed"your gun is cocked!"-I said sure,that's the way it's carried.Then I had to explain why that was not dangerous.He was a nice guy and all,but knew little about firearms,like the other DEA agent I was with when we grabbed an offender with a Star in the same condition.I cleared it,but the other agent asked if I knew what I was doing.Police training should include a little broader instruction on weapons than the very specific training some people seem to get.
When I went through the Border Patrol Academy our instructors were real pistoleros who explained it all.
I was assigned to the DEA task Force,a DEA agent,who was a former local cop noticed my 1911 cocked and locked on my hip and exclaimed"your gun is cocked!"-I said sure,that's the way it's carried.Then I had to explain why that was not dangerous.He was a nice guy and all,but knew little about firearms,like the other DEA agent I was with when we grabbed an offender with a Star in the same condition.I cleared it,but the other agent asked if I knew what I was doing.Police training should include a little broader instruction on weapons than the very specific training some people seem to get.
When I went through the Border Patrol Academy our instructors were real pistoleros who explained it all.
Sturmgewehre
New member
First, you need to read the rules. Personal attacks are not tolerated here.
Secondly, PBP served as a State Policemen (correct me if I'm wrong PBP).
Why don't you take your 130 some posts over to this link and educate yourself.
Civility made easy - click me!
Heck, I'll even make it easy for you... given I'm such a nice guy.
grymster2007
New member
Doesn't it take like eight years in armorer's school to learn how to remove the cylinder in an NAA Mini? The frozen sausages that pass for my fingers ain't much help either. 
Sturmgewehre
New member
Back in the mid-80's a buddy of mine got a new fangled rifle known as a "Steyr AUG". It was brand new on the scene, not many where to be found in gun shops yet.
My buddy had the AUG on the truck seat next to him when he was pulled over. The officer that stopped him looked at the rifle and his eyes got really big. He ordered my buddy out of the car, called for back-up and cuffed my friend.
The back-up arrives and they start to inspect the wonder rifle. The officer that made the initial stop was heard saying, "This is a machinegun I read about this rifle in American Rifleman".
They couldn't seem to figure out how to drop the magazine or open the bolt to clear the rifle properly for transportation. They struggled with it for 15 minutes or so, and my buddy told them he would be glad to give them instruction on how to properly clear the rifle (he was 17 years old at the time). Of course the manly police officers weren't about to learn something from a 17 year old "criminal"... my buddy was freaked out because these clowns were likely going to damage his prized possession.
They take him to the station and keep him for a couple of hours. Then they release him to his father. 3 months later, after getting an attorney and filing suit to have the rifle returned, the police department releases the rifle. The gas piston plug was missing as well as the gas piston. It turns out the genius armorer at the station decided to test fire the rifle to see if it was a machinegun. He was turning the gas plug to its various positions thinking it was the selector lever (out by the end of the barrel!) until eventually he hit the disassembly position... then fired it. The piston and plug went sailing into oblivion.
Again, through the courts, they forced the police department to replace the missing parts of the rifle and... the best part... a judge made the police chief include a letter of apology with the check. Ahh, those days are long gone...
My buddy had the AUG on the truck seat next to him when he was pulled over. The officer that stopped him looked at the rifle and his eyes got really big. He ordered my buddy out of the car, called for back-up and cuffed my friend.
The back-up arrives and they start to inspect the wonder rifle. The officer that made the initial stop was heard saying, "This is a machinegun I read about this rifle in American Rifleman".
They couldn't seem to figure out how to drop the magazine or open the bolt to clear the rifle properly for transportation. They struggled with it for 15 minutes or so, and my buddy told them he would be glad to give them instruction on how to properly clear the rifle (he was 17 years old at the time). Of course the manly police officers weren't about to learn something from a 17 year old "criminal"... my buddy was freaked out because these clowns were likely going to damage his prized possession.
They take him to the station and keep him for a couple of hours. Then they release him to his father. 3 months later, after getting an attorney and filing suit to have the rifle returned, the police department releases the rifle. The gas piston plug was missing as well as the gas piston. It turns out the genius armorer at the station decided to test fire the rifle to see if it was a machinegun. He was turning the gas plug to its various positions thinking it was the selector lever (out by the end of the barrel!) until eventually he hit the disassembly position... then fired it. The piston and plug went sailing into oblivion.
Again, through the courts, they forced the police department to replace the missing parts of the rifle and... the best part... a judge made the police chief include a letter of apology with the check. Ahh, those days are long gone...
I know a lot of LEO's, a few are family.
Some are petty young and they grew up in a different age long after firearms collecting and general interest of same by the public was replaced video games, the Interweb, and liberal movements. A lot are simply not into guns in general or at all.
Some are gun junkies, some aint. Same with the General Public.
In either case, they (LEO's) get trained and paid to know how to use THEIR firearm. And I would not, EVER, bet against them in a firefight.
Leave it to the Internetrolleyes to come up with a topic like this.
Some are petty young and they grew up in a different age long after firearms collecting and general interest of same by the public was replaced video games, the Interweb, and liberal movements. A lot are simply not into guns in general or at all.
Some are gun junkies, some aint. Same with the General Public.
In either case, they (LEO's) get trained and paid to know how to use THEIR firearm. And I would not, EVER, bet against them in a firefight.
Leave it to the Internet
rolleyes to come up with a topic like this.LanceOregon
Moderator
Are you referring to the infamous recent killing of a man New Years Eve by BART police? That took place in Oakland, not San Francisco, and a riot recently took place during one public protest over the shooting. A lot of property was damaged, and Oakland police ended up arresting 105 people during the riot.
Claims that this shooting may have been accidental look suspicious to me. Did you watch the video of the KTVU news report about it that is on You Tube?? It is most disturbing to view.
Here is a link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKy-WSZMklc
There has even been recent speculation by law enforcement that the officer actually meant to pull and shoot his Taser gun, and instead drew and fired his service pistol instead by accident. However, in my opinion, any officer who is so incompetent as to make that sort of mistake does not deserve to be a policeman, in my opinion.
Besides, if you look at the video, there are two officers on top of the man's back, and he does not appear to be resisting at all. To shoot an unarmed man in the back in such circumstances seems more than just being negligent in my view.
The BART officer who did the shooting refused to be interviewed by the BART police's own internal investigators, and instead resigned from the force, and has hired a lawyer. He is refusing to talk to anyone other than his lawyer about the shooting.
Meanwhile, the Oakland City Police has opened up a criminal investigation into the shooting, and the FBI is investigating whether the dead man's civil rights were violated.
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