This is interesting.

Great idea, Rick! Let's take it a step further so things really work better for the police and worse for criminals. Let's make every police chief in America raid two "drug houses" every week and shoot all the inhabitants on sight. When they're done, the fire department will burn it to the ground. Think of it. More than one hundred drug houses destroyed each year in every town in America.

It's probably a neighborhood problem - a MOAB or two on the neighborhood would be best. No reason to waste police resources on shooting the inhabitants - not when they could be spending their valuable time torturing suspects. The MOAB will incinerate the houses with the inhabitants in them, saving time and money.;)
 
:eek:

Why even bother?Declare a state of emergency and simply bulldoze the suspected houses down,occupants and all.Pave it over nice and the problem has just dissappeared.:rolleyes:
 
Good grief, decaf for you guys from now on.

When did the TFL be come a pro drug forum anyway? Ya I know its the politic site but still how did this thread become hyjacked by the drugies. Seems to happen more and more recently.
 
When did the TFL be come a pro drug forum anyway? Ya I know its the politic site but still how did this thread become hyjacked by the drugies.
I take it then that you have general disrespect for American Indians, who use(d) various drugs in their ceremonies?

I take it that you have general disrespect for historical asian culture, where opium was in wide use?

I take it that you have disrespect for quite a number of Americans who used cocaine and heroin-based products in this country before they were made illegal?

Why is it so hard for you drug warriors to distinguish between people who want drugs legal and people who want to abuse drugs?
 
When did the TFL be come a pro drug forum anyway? Ya I know its the politic site but still how did this thread become hyjacked by the drugies.
.

I simply find the current situation repulsive in the way it has changed.The same laws that were meant to help us has ended up wrecking us.Where or what is the limit?Is lying now ok as long as it gets results?

The zero tolerance and the continual elevation of the war on (some)drugs, is never going to end,not this way.:)
 
Hmmm

Interesting. This may be allowed to stand, because:

1. There is a long established precedent of it being ok for the cops to lie and deceive in order to get suspects to TALK. For example, they plant an undercover in a jail cell with a guy to establish rapport and get a confession, or things of that nature.

and

2. Ultimately, the search was consensual (whether is was "voluntary" is a slightly more complicated inquiry, and the whole crux of the matter, since the alleged voluntariness was obtained via deception, so was it really "voluntary" when the guy thought the search was for different purpose?)

and

3. There is a well-settled principle of "plain sight", meaning that if an LEO is otherwise authorized to look for item A (here, an nonexistent sex crime evidentiary material or lack thereof), and sees evidence of crime B in plain sight, it can be used in a prosecution.

But here, the consent itself was obtained by deception. Hmmm. How is that different from gaining "consent" to get a guy to talk to you using deception? I dunno. Hey guys, I'm the first to bash overreaching or unconstitutional LEO tactics, but I'm trying to distinguish this with an articulable test, from the well-settled, accepted precedent of lying to obtain a confession?

I don't like it, of course, but in some ways, it helps to show the public what the cops really do on a REGULAR basis - that is LIE - they do it now as freely admitted and accepted by the courts in the case of custodial interrogation. A little bit of truth may just help people to understand what they already should know - if you're guilty of ANYTHING, don't ever ever ever talk to or cooperate with police - when they say "you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law", believe them! And NEVER consent to a search - that's insanity. If the cops want to search, you can rest assured there is only one reason for it - they are looking to charge YOU with as many crimes as humanly possible! Don't you guys watch COPS? That show is the best thing that ever happened to the people who get arrested on that show because about half of the detentions and searches are illegal, and now the defendants have the proof they need! But it makes you wonder of that same proportion of illegal searches and detentions spills over into the public at large, or are the cops on COPS just being cowboys for the camera, to get some action on film? Who knows, but it's frightening how many civil rights violations are there for the world to see, week in and week out. It's really ironic, too.

But yeah, what's advocating an end to the wosd have one iota to do with said advocates actually taking even one drug, let alone multiple, as alleged? I don't even like to take aspirin, but clearly the WOSD is a dismal failure, and must be ended and soon, as detailed and fully explained time and time again (with impeccable logic I might add) in many, many threads here on TFL, if you will do a search of most any thread in the last 3 months where the WOSD topic comes up.
 
I don't see this as a drug issue

The results would have been the same if the ciop had come in and found counterfeit money or child porn or even evidence of a murder

Would the only difference would be that most all of us would find those crimes distasteful?
Or would that change anyone's opinion on the acceptability of the deception ?

I'm not trying to start another argument I am honestly trying to figure this through
 
No I think the people who are concerned about the deception understand that it's about the rights of the accused, which could someday be you or me, and it wouldn't have mattered what the other crime evidence was. For example, suppose Hitlery gets in power and manages to ban handguns, and the evidence was of possession of banned gun. Equally outrageous, if not more so. Or, Orin Hatch is president and porno is banned - similar situation. On and on; the other crime matters not. It's whether in our society, it ought to be acceptable practice for cops to lie to obtain consent to search your home (which is a man - and woman's - castle, AFAIAC).
 
I agree with that 100% FF, it just seemed that this was going to steer off topic towards another drug war rant, and we all know how those end.

I agree that the crimes in question should not be an indicator of the right or wrong of the search
I just keep going back to the fact that the permission to search was in fact voluntary.
No matter what means were used to get that permission as long as there is no threat or coercion

The same way if you refused permission for a cop to search your vehicle and he tells you that you will have to wait on the dogs and that can take all day.

At what point does it fall to the citizen to know and exercise his rights

I still haven't made up my mind
 
The officer lied to gain access to the home and its contents.It was never about the reported girl, it was about getting in and going on a fishing expedition.

Yup, he got his pusher and an "atta boy" from his superiors but it sets precedent for a way of enforcing a statewide gun ban.
 
Sorry but I had to take my whack at it...

When did the TFL be come a pro drug forum anyway? Ya I know its the politic site but still how did this thread become hyjacked by the drugies.

How about this: When did the US get to be a pro incarcaration nation anyway? I know it's a 'free society' or somesuch but how did this country become hijacked by people who think it's fair to lock someone up and deprive them of their freedom & property when they've harmed no-one else but themselves (if that).

I mean, look at the netherlands. They must surely be in utter chaos, with their right to go about & do as they please...The NERVE of some people! Surely they should have someone who knows better to go about and institute their sense of moral rightousness upon their chaotic and uneducated masses. Wait! I know! They need JESUS! I know we sure need someone to save us from OURselves...

I wanna move to Alaska, the 'Leave me the F alone' state.
 
Esquire M Busterbury, I agree with you. I do consider myself a Christian, but I have no right to tell anyone else what to do or think. If I can just hold up my end, I've done pretty well. Ditto (damn, I hate that word!) on the Alaska move. I envy Wild except for the weather.:)

babbob
 
If the LEO didn't have enough evidence to get a search warrant, he shouldn't have even tried to search the home--false pretenses or not...

If you are accused of a crime (ANY crime--whether you did it or not), you NEVER consent to a search. Make the law work for you, instead....

If we as a society allow our uniformed officers to lie at will, then the trust factor is gone. And then we're OK to lie to them, too....

Dark times ahead....
 
seeker-two

I agree. T. Jefferson said we only have the rights we are willing to fight for.
By continually electing Republicrats/Demapublicans we're contributing to our own demise. Fight the good fight!:(

badbob
 
The courts decided (have to look up the reference) that police could lie to suspects. When we discussed this at the academy, it was in reference to interrogations and the like.

I'd need to know more specifics on this one before I could have a solid opinion, but even if legal, I question this particular usage of lying. But, like I said, more info would be great.
 
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