This is interesting.

Wildcard

Moderator
This is just plain wrong.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060818/NEWS01/608180418

Friday, August 18, 2006

Ky. court will consider if police can lie
Ruse let detective gain entry to home

By Andrew Wolfson
awolfson@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal

By Andrew Wolfson
awolfson@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal

When Kentucky State Police Detective Jason Manar knocked on the door of a Paducah home where he'd heard drugs were being sold, he knew the occupants probably wouldn't consent to a search if he said he was looking for narcotics.

So he lied.

He said a girl claimed to have been sexually assaulted inside the house and that he wanted to examine the furniture and bedding to see if it matched the description she gave.


Manar was allowed into the home, where he found a small amount of cocaine and marijuana and then arrested the homeowner, Frederick Carl "Fritz" Krause III.

"I was outraged," recalled Krause, who was fired from his job as a director at WPSD-TV after the March 2003 arrest. "You would think you could trust authorities to tell you the truth."

Krause, then 29, pleaded guilty to possession of drugs and drug paraphernalia -- but on the condition he could challenge the legality of the search.

Today, as a result, the Kentucky Supreme Court will hear arguments on an issue it has never addressed: Whether a defendant's consent to a search can ever be "voluntary" -- as required for a search without a warrant -- when it is the product of a police officer's deceit and misrepresentation.

Courts have long held that police may try to trick suspects during interrogations -- by falsely telling them that their fingerprints were found at the scene, for example, or that a partner confessed and implicated them. The thinking is that the suspect is already in custody and has been read his rights.

But constitutional law experts say the use of trickery to get permission for a search is more troubling because it easily can be coercive.

"Anyone falsely accused of sexually assaulting a young girl would allow the search in order to clear himself," said Wayne LaFave, professor emeritus at the University of Illinois College of Law and author of a six-volume treatise on searches and seizures.
Ruse raises questions

In the Krause case, McCracken Circuit Judge Craig Clymer upheld the search, in part because he said Krause and his roommate, who also was charged and convicted, could have refused it.

But Clymer said the ruse raised "serious constitutional questions" and was "not an appropriate police practice."

Dissenting from a 2-1 decision affirming Clymer's decision, Chief Court of Appeals Judge Sara Combs called the deception "a dangerous threat to the essence and integrity of the Fourth Amendment, which protects against unreasonable searches and seizures."

Manar, who acknowledged in court that he made up the story to get into Krause's home, now works for the FBI in Illinois. Reached by phone yesterday, he said he couldn't comment on the court case, citing bureau policy.

A state police spokesman, Sgt. Phil Crumpton, said the department also couldn't comment, because of the appeal.

But in a brief filed with the Supreme Court, Assistant Attorney General Courtney Hightower said deception alone does not invalidate consent to a search and that most courts have recognized that "ruses are a sometimes necessary element of police work."

In Washington, for example, a state court found in 2003 that Seattle police did not violate the Constitution when they tricked a serial murder suspect into providing a sample of his DNA by sending him a letter -- and a self-addressed, stamped envelope -- from a phony law firm, inviting him to join a nonexistent class-action lawsuit. He licked the envelope, providing the DNA sample.

"You kind of wince a bit and it's not something you want to do, but sometimes you have to use deception because it is necessary to solve crimes," said Louisville Metro Louisville Police Detective Larry Duncan. "I refer to it as a little white lie."

But police commanders say deception can backfire. "If you tell a suspect you've got his prints and he knows he wore gloves" when committing the crime, "he knows you're lying, and you lose any rapport you've build up with him" said metro police Capt. Donald Burbrink.

Metro police Capt. Steve Thompson said deceiving a suspect into consenting to a search is a risk not worth taking -- because of the chance the evidence will be suppressed. He said the department encourages detectives to get search warrants when possible.

Crumpton said state police have no policy on using ruses to get inside a home. The Lexington Police Department also has no written rules on that practice, but Maj. Robert Stack said its officers don't do it.

Mike Schwendeman, a staff attorney at the Kentucky Department of Criminal Justice Training, which instructs officers from many police departments, said through a spokeswoman that officers must be extremely careful using deception in searches because consent must be given "freely and voluntarily."

FBI spokesman Stephen Kodak said if agents use a ruse to get voluntary consent for a search, "our policy is to stay within the parameters of the deception. If we say we are a meter reader, we will search around the meter, not wander around the house."
Searching for drugs

The events leading to Krause's conviction began on March 18, 2003, according to court records, when another man that Manar had arrested on a charge of cocaine possession said he had bought the drug from Krause's roommate, Joe Yamada.

Manar knew he didn't have probable cause to get a warrant, so he went to their house in the middle of the night to see if they would agree to a search. He said he told Yamada or Manar -- he wasn't sure which -- that a girl claimed she had been assaulted and that the assault took place at their house.

"I thought that would ease his mind a little more than confronting him with the drugs," Manar said.

Inside, Manar said, he caught Yamada trying to hide a coke spoon, then found a bag of about 3 grams of cocaine in his bedroom and a bag with slightly more than an ounce of marijuana in another room.

Yamada and Krause pleaded guilty to marijuana and cocaine charges, as well as possession of drug paraphernalia. Yamada, who didn't join the appeal, was placed on probation for three years, and Krause for 2?.

Krause, who now lives in a Chicago suburb where he manages a grocery store, has served out his probation. He said in a phone interview that he is continuing to challenge his conviction because "the right to be secure in your own home has gone out the window."

His lawyer, Jeremy Ian Smith of Paducah, said the case is important to all Kentuckians.

"If the court upholds this decision," he said, "the police will be able to show up at your doorstep, claim they have a report of a fire, and then search your place looking for the alleged heroin that some recently arrested nut who owes you money said would be there."

Reporter Andrew Wolfson can be reached at (502) 582-7189.

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He should be fired with all pensions and benefits and insurance policies permenantly revoked,with a restraining order applied to him for life. (no more weapons) No trial. No appeal.
 
This is bad news, and if unchallenged, sets a dangerous precedent.

This style of "police work" needs to be stopped at all costs.
 
This style of "police work" needs to be stopped at all costs.

Agreed, and quiclkly. But, I am sure some will chime in on this thread as to why this is good police work, and needs to be continued.:barf:
 
Actually there has been numerous court rulings that deception is legal in some instances where a warrant for instance could not be obtained. In one case in Seattle the cop dressed up like a priest with a broken down car to get the suspect to come out of a fortified house and arrest him without a shoot out. Court didn't like it but left it go.

"No trial" interesting concept, can we apply it to you?
 
Inrteresting
If police are not allowed to lie to suspected criminals where would that lead undercover officers and hooker decoys.
but then they usually operate in public wherethere is no reasonable expectation of privacy.
Another but ,
If a cop has to ask for my permission to search then he obviously has no right to search, so I tell him no and go clean up my contraband before he gets back with the warrant.

Not sure how I feel about this one.
 
At the federal level, it is accepted practice for law enforcement to lie if the investigating officer deems it necessary. No repercussions, no liability, if it is part of a federal investigation. However, if you lie to a federal officer in the conduct of that same investigation, it is a federal offense.

So. I can lie to you with no consequences, except maybe having to admit it in federal court (which the judge may or may not permit), but you can not lie to me without threat of federal prosecution, assured if caught.

Anybody got a problem with that besides me?
 
I think it is everyones right to lie if they want to.
But they should be liable to have that lie held against them in court.

I'll probably switch sides on this three or four more times before I wrap my mind around it.

For right now I just know that I'm not letting anyone search my house or vehcles for missing kittens or missing eveidence of any crime.
 
Knock - knock - who's there?

If your stupid enough to let the police into your residence "voluntarily" while your possession of controlled substances in that residence, you deserve what goes along with it.

Some peoples kids...:confused:

12-34hom.
 
the guy who lived in the house and got arrested

deserved what he got... not because he was using drugs or maybe even selling them, but because he obviously is too stupid to be out in the public.
 
The police have to do sneaky stuff to catch criminals who have gotten more devious - and lying is in their bag of tricks. I don't see anything wrong with it.
Under no circumstances should you ever tell the police a lie to cover up your involvement in a crime. I think when you're confronted by an officer of the law you should be immediately connected to a lie detector, injected with sodium thiopental and questioned. If this doesn't yield the desired results - torture should be used - assuming the officer has been trained in torture. Eventually you'll talk and tell the truth.
 
rick_reno said:
I think when you're confronted by an officer of the law you should be immediately connected to a lie detector, injected with sodium thiopental and questioned. If this doesn't yield the desired results - torture should be used - assuming the officer has been trained in torture. Eventually you'll talk and tell the truth.
Great idea, Rick! Let's take it a step further so things really work better for the police and worse for criminals. Let's make every police chief in America raid two "drug houses" every week and shoot all the inhabitants on sight. When they're done, the fire department will burn it to the ground. Think of it. More than one hundred drug houses destroyed each year in every town in America.
:rolleyes: ;)
 
Joab, lying's not protected by the First Amendment. Ever hear of perjury? You know, the charge they put Bill on?

Besides, this isn't the same as using subterfuge (I'm guessing that's what you guys are talking about) to stop a violent crime. It was a drug deal. Sure drugs aren't great but they're not such a pressing danger as to violate a few Constituitional provisions to get the job done. This wasn't a hostage situation or a guy strapped to a bomb making demands in a bank. It was two guys dealing or doing drugs. Big whoop.

And this is dangerous because police can monitor you already thanks to the (un)Patriot(ic) ACT and just like and say, "This lady said she was raped here." or "This girl said she was beaten here"

It leads to bad things. This is not good police work, this is good facist work. Any cop who does this deserves to get slammed by the book.

Oh I also love how this arm-chair quarterbacks are all like, "Man he's too stupid he deserves it." I'd like to see you talk big when a cop comes to your doorstep while you're minding your own business and tells you that a serious crime (don't get started on the drugs part, they were doing to their own bodies what they have a right to) of assaulting a child, I can gurantee it will unnerve quite a few of us.
 
TBM, can we replace drug houses with politicians' houses? Ron Paul and the few others like him get a pass.
 
Joab, lying's not protected by the First Amendment. Ever hear of perjury? You know, the charge they put Bill on?
Have you looked up the legal definition perjury?
If lying is not protected under the first why are politicians not in jail.
I can lie all I want in order to prosecute me you must be able to show damage.
I'm not real sure where this comment even came from or why it is directed towards me, well not real sure but I can speculate.

Oh I also love how this arm-chair quarterbacks are all like, "Man he's too stupid he deserves it." I'd like to see you talk big when a cop comes to your doorstep while you're minding your own business and tells you that a serious crime (don't get started on the drugs part, they were doing to their own bodies what they have a right to) of assaulting a child, I can gurantee it will unnerve quite a few of us.
Sure it would unnerve me, but not to the point of allowing a warrantless search in which the officer is obviously looking for evidence to incriminate me when I knowingly have illegal substances in my home or possession
Why? because I am not stupid
 
Get rid of the drug war and a lot of these sticky issues go away.

DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner!!!!

This garbage is only happenning becasue fo the stupid "War on Drugs," which used to be the main war until it fell to the "War on Terror" which will last until the "War on DIrty Public Restrooms" replaces it.

If these guys want to get high in their own house why is it anybody else's business. What an utter waste of taxpayer's money. We also have a cop who uses the threat of being considerred a sexual predator to gain entry to a home. The homeowner in question was most likely thinking about how he would loose his house, career and everything else just fighting the charges of being a sexual assaulter. The cop preyed on that to gain entry. The cop though has now been made into a Fed, probably partially due to his inventive methods.

The sad part is right now I am teaching my 4 year old daughter to trust the police but as she turns into a woman I will have to then explain to here how the police are no citizen's friend and why she should rarely if ever cooperate with them.
 
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