This is an interesting development...

M

MilitantBob

New member
Read this...

In a nutshell:

MIAMI - Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.

Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.
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I know they aren't really violating anybodies rights by simply asking to see ID, but having public sweeps to check "zee papers" is kinda making me feel uneasy.

This kind of policy could easily turn into checkpoints and other fun stuff...

Not sure what I think about this, honestly. Still percolating on it.

What do yall think?
 
I know they aren't really violating anybodies rights by simply asking to see ID, but having public sweeps to check "zee papers" is kinda making me feel uneasy.
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IMO, they are violating the rights of people by asking for ID, if the only reason for them being there is this stupid random show of force.
 
Miami Police Take New Tack Against Terror

By CURT ANDERSON, Associated Press WriterMon Nov 28, 9:28 PM ET

Miami police announced Monday they will stage random shows of force at hotels, banks and other public places to keep terrorists guessing and remind people to be vigilant.

Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.

"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.

The operations will keep terrorists off guard, Fernandez said. He said al-Qaida and other terrorist groups plot attacks by putting places under surveillance and watching for flaws and patterns in security.

Police Chief John Timoney said there was no specific, credible threat of an imminent terror attack in Miami. But he said the city has repeatedly been mentioned in intelligence reports as a potential target.

Timoney also noted that 14 of the 19 hijackers who took part in the Sept. 11 attacks lived in South Florida at various times and that other alleged terror cells have operated in the area.

Both uniformed and plainclothes police will ride buses and trains, while others will conduct longer-term surveillance operations.

"People are definitely going to notice it," Fernandez said. "We want that shock. We want that awe. But at the same time, we don't want people to feel their rights are being threatened. We need them to be our eyes and ears."

Howard Simon, executive director of ACLU of Florida, said the Miami initiative appears aimed at ensuring that people's rights are not violated.

"What we're dealing with is officers on street patrol, which is more effective and more consistent with the Constitution," Simon said. "We'll have to see how it is implemented."

Mary Ann Viverette, president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, said the Miami program is similar to those used for years during the holiday season to deter criminals at busy places such as shopping malls.

"You want to make your presence known and that's a great way to do it," said Viverette, police chief in Gaithersburg, Md. "We want people to feel they can go about their normal course of business, but we want them to be aware."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_re_us/miami_terrorism;_ylt=AsEYpnMQ04vlj1qLSLdyJDGs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-



"You want to make your presence known and that's a great way to do it," said Viverette, police chief in Gaithersburg, Md. "We want people to feel they can go about their normal course of business, but we want them to be aware."[/b]
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In my normal course of business during the day, I dont get stopped, ordered to produce ID at the whim of a LEO with no legal reason.
 
I was just going to post a new thread about this. Anyone asked for ID under these circumstances is under NO obligation to comply for any reason what so ever and should refuse and leave. If they push the issue and demand ID I am thinking a demand to release or arrest, since you have already been Terry stopped, would result in owning a significant % of the police departments budget that year...:eek:

Although with their getting "random" DUI stops allowed in some states this is truly worrysome...
 
I think under the Homeland security act.

It would be permissable. I would not mind it. But I have nothing to hide and feel they are only trying to protect the country at this particular date and time.

We are at war, with a certain vicious group of people and don't forget it.
We in the past were not vigilant and let our guard down, we paid big and now we are in a war.

Saddam is demanding at his trial like he is still in power and people who are going to prosecute him are being threatened, on both sides are still getting killed daily.

I have said this before and I will say it again, Go to the article section on this site and read 'A nation of cowards' Good read.

Gov Jeb Bush is going to be running for President and he needs to look vigilant. Or so he thinks. Might start the justice process going back to where decent citizens will feel good about the streets again. Have you really taken a good look at the inner cities lately? Pretty sad.

We as a country should get in the big picture and realize we are at a major turning point in this countries future and if an occasional check is going to ruin your day...Well so be it.

I think the DUI stops are great. Get those killers.

Harley
 
We as a country should get in the big picture and realize we are at a major turning point in this countries future and if an occasional check is going to ruin your day...Well so be it.
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Rights being trampled in the name of security is a major turning point for the country. Turning the wrong way.
 
Three items to note; first item is the HS funding that Miami will now have for these operations. Second is the public perception of being protected by a proactive anti-terrorist police force. Third is stupid but, why should DoC and NYC get all the attention and money?
 
Rights being trampled???

What rights are these?
The right to be in public, having a check up on your right to be here?

When signing the motel ledger or the hotel ledger are you having your rights violated? Better not be John Smith or you will be in trouble.

To be driving a car while not intoxicated is that a violation of your/our rights?
Why should you be able to drive a car, get a drivers license if you are illegal? The average citizen has given up most of their rights because of the criminal element.
BG's need to have their rights violated so they can see how the criminal justice system works.

First I think one needs to understand that criminals are in their own way terrorist's. Yep they flat a** terrorize the good people and cost the tax payer big bucks. They are the first line terrorist in this country. Criminals who use force and fear have taken away the night and most of the day in major cities across the USA.

The cities need to go back and do active police work. Put bad guys and girls in jail. Get um off the streets (by that I mean go hide in the house where the good guy has to because of them).

Problems are just starting to happen in a country that has allowed way to many disidents into its borders. Immigration needs to stop and should be held to a low minimum until this stuff blows over. We have people in this country that work everyday to destroy this country, main object to have come here in the first place. Main places they stay while on the move are in hotels and motels, check um out.

Quite a few motels and hotels are where the destitue go to live while getting back on their feet. No reason they should not be able to live in a criminal free enviroment.

In quite a few cities they have had to go back to the curfew laws, if they would have done that ten years ago we would not be in this problem we are in now.

Gangs terrorize the Neighborhoods when they move into new Neighborhoods they ruin them. When they go to the wrong Neighborhood they are then put in jail or shot. Tough luck, go pick on someone else.

Hit um hard I say, and if you think your rights are being trampled go to the police station and complain. Or better yet treat the police officer with lots of disrespect and see what that gets you. Call him copper and cop a lot, like you do on these boards. LOL

While I am at it, I think we ought to review the draft and start back to it again. It should not have anything to do with schooling. If you are of age you need to be going and helping your country, pretty simple.

Harley
 
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Ef yoo pepers ah in oder... yoo got nuzzing to vory 'bout... :D


Got any good ideas to find and ship out the illegals and terrorists? :p


The best thing going for the people, is the Second Amendment... :D
 
I'm curious how this will do anything to reduce whatever terrorist threat they have in mind?

I feel sooooooo much safer knowing that they're going to make sure terorrists have valid drivers licenses. :rolleyes:
 
I see Harley that you're in my neck of the woods. I don't think most of the nation realizes the effect of illegal immigration. We see it everyday first hand. We see the direct consequences of it. I think we should deport all of the illegals.
 
It is infuriating that the government will allow the Mexican border to remain the main entry point for illegals, and then violate the Constitution, by unreasonable searches of American citizens.

It reminds me of the movie "Airplane", when they let the terrorist looking guy with the rode, head dress, and automatic weapon, through the buzzing metal detector to board the plane, while detaining a group of nuns.

It is not to protect the country. It is being done to get us used to having more and more constitutional rights taken away. They are willing to violate the constitutional rights of American citizens, but they are not about to be "politically incorrect" enough to shut down the flow of people across the Rio Grande that are an actual threat. It is bizzare, and I cannot imagine why the folks over there in Florida are willing to stand for it.
 
California is really hard hit by illegals

The Border patrol is doing everything it can, the situation is totally out of hand. It is time to be more vigilant like it or not. The persons here that are legal no problem, the ones that arn't need to go home and stay.

If they are doing a job that others don't want, well to bad send them home and forget the service they are providing.

Supertac, we are being taken over, within a decade we will be ruined, it will only go on so long with this glut of illegals at our border. It will turn into the same thing it has in the middle east. How much longer are legal taxpayers going to stand for this?

I for one no longer go to places that I notice have illegals. Simple no mas. When I am with family or friends, I don't make a big deal out of it but when I am only accountable for my actions I talk to them and see what is up(businessmen and employers).

I asked some family members why they used them (gardners housekeepers) they said, they are cheaper and do better work. I told them they should not hire them. Turned into a hassel, we arn't talking as of this post. To bad.

Construction industry is a shame. It is an absolute shame. Same with gardners, house keepers, hotels. Slam the business's put them in jail for hiring them... It has got to stop, now.

Geez lets talk guns and ammo, better yet I am going shooting. Bye...

Harley
 
It is impossible to travel without papers and those papers become more important than money. Every country wants to know who you are as you come across the border. It should be the same here for non US citizens. They need to control the borders and let us Americans live in the freedom we deserve.

If they want to check papers then they should do a roundup of illegals and rid us of them and seal the border so they don't need to check again. Go ahead and check but shut down the damn borders or they are wasting our money.

25
 
I see Harley that you're in my neck of the woods. I don't think most of the nation re

Supertac, I am in Texas, and I know what you mean about the northern part of the country not having any idea how bad it is.

When the minuteman project started, the first thing you heard from the media was how terrible it was going to be to have these "right wing" groups "patrolling".

("Right Wing" meaning, American citizens who believe that illegal entry into the country, is illegal)

The minuteman project was EXTREMELY effective, not one single person was injured, and still, the media portrayed it as a dangerous, right wing extremist group. The only reason illegal entry has "gotten out of hand" is because we don't have enough people watching the border. We could shut down illegal entry completely, if the government actually wanted to do so. For some reason, the government would rather set up DUI roadblocks, and "check the papers" of 75 year old grandmothers shopping at malls in Florida.

All it takes is enough people, as was proved by the minuteman project in Arizona. The illegal entry attempts plummeted while that was ongoing. What needs to occur, is for the Federal Government to concentrate on sealing the border. But I am do not have the faintest bit of confidence, that they have any wish to do so.
 
False premise; false result

Some here would whore out fundamental freedoms for the false assurance of safety:

"I would not mind it. But I have nothing to hide and feel they are only trying to protect the country at this particular date and time."

This is precisely the corrosive, subservient mentality Benjamin Franklin warned us against; the Faustian "bargain" of liberty sacrificed for the specious promise of "security."

The "shock and awe" treatment is designed to put on a show for the cretins; it will do nothing to stop terrorists or otherwise enhance security. Bread and circuses has become bluff and coercion; the new distraction of the masses.

Security STARTS with secure borders; not shock troops interrogating citizens going about their business. Unless and until we actually repel and return those making illegal entry, these "Homeland Security" shticks will simply be another ploy to make the terminally obtuse feel all warm and secure. :barf: :barf: :barf:
 
It is not to protect the country. It is being done to get us used to having more and more constitutional rights taken away.
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It sounds more like busy work for police whose departments can't think of anything better for them to do.

I'm going to hold my breath waiting for the first arrest of a terrorist because he forgot his drivers license when he stopped by the bank on the way to a suicide bombing.
 
Deputy Police Chief Frank Fernandez said officers might, for example, surround a bank building, check the IDs of everyone going in and out and hand out leaflets about terror threats.
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What for? What the bloody frell are they going to check for, a "terrorist" restriction on the back of someone's driver's license? And since when is it required for people to carry ID?

This is absurd. The illegal immigrant problem is a problem, and needs to be dealt with, but not like this. And this won't help protect against terrorists at all.
 
I can't find it after a couple hours searching for it (I guess my boolean isn't good enough for the search engine) but there's a SCOTUS case out there that says that the police can't stop and demand ID without some other PC.

It's a pre-Terry v. Ohio case but I don't remember the name or citation.

It sort of goes along with the constitutional proposition that all persons are free to travel without restriction and the 4th amendment prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures. A stop just to check identification would go against both of those prinicples.

As a practical matter, if I were the manager of a Bank or Hotel and the cops did this outside my facility, I'd raise bloody hell. Talk about intimidation of your customers.

[I think under the Homeland Secutiry Act i]t would be permissable. I would not mind it
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Harley, just because there's a law authorizing it, doesn't make it consitutional or permissible. Secondly, just because YOU wouldn't mind it, doesn't mean I wouldn't mind it and I shouldn't be subject to arrest, detention, intimidation, and/or punishment for that. Third, the "I have nothing to hide" argument (you didn't raise it but..) is specious in that it assumes that I also have nothing to hide. I may very well have something that I want to hide and unless the cops know IN ADVANCE that (1) I have it, and (2) it's illegal, then the stop is a fishing expedition without a constitutional basis which violates my rights.

And yes, one DOES have a right to be in public and not be questioned for just being there.
 
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