this guy makes sense: read

Yeah, Farah's pretty good. I liked <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_btl/19990125_xcbtl_do_we_need.shtml">yesterday's column</a> better, though.
 
Yesterdays was good. I couldn't get into the others as the link wouldn't work.
At to the one I read, I'm a LEO and one of my greatest fears has been the Federalazation of the Police. I want the BG to be afraid of me, not the Honest Citizen. Nor do I or Most Cops want the People to be disarmed.
You will find that most of the cops causing the problem are Feds or hired recently under Federal rules.
 
Raymond, that's what hit me most about the column - the fear of our police. When I was growing up, cops were good guys. When I was an adolescent, the descent had begun... they were often riduculed and sometimes feared. Now, when I see a cruiser go by my house, I think "Whew, they kept going."

Long term, I'm much more worried about cops than criminals doing me harm. That's really sad.
 
Yhe police are already federalized.
What percentage of their funding comes from or as a result of the federal government?
And what agency or department is willing to give it up?

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Take heart and keep talking to each other, guys! If we can continue sensible dialog between LEO's and civilians, The Firing Line will have served one of it's major functions.

Both sides need to wake up and realize that the enemy has been seen...and he ain't us.
Rich
 
Ed made a good point. I was told that there's some law out there (maybe DC can find it) that if an agency accepts certain type of federal funding, they're subject to being federalized. No cop I know wants that to happen and would rather answer to our flaky City & County than to Billy Jeff and his no-fault gang.

Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Thanks for introducing me to Farah. I've bookmarked the World Net Daily to read his columns.

But I think that another part of the problem is the militarization of police tactics. A case in point: The city of Aiken, S.C. is appealing a recent judgement against the Aiken Police Department in behalf of several local teenagers. For 2/3 million dollars.

Based on information received from a fourteen year old runaway with criminal charges pending against him, the Aiken Police Department staged a full blown dynamic entry "drug raid" with helmeted, faceshielded, flak jacketed troops. They used flash bang grenades, battered down the door with a ram, ran in and held submachine guns to the heads of the teenagers. Teenagers who were drinking koolaid and watching videos. No drugs were found. No alcohol was found. Nothing illegal of any nature was found.

Come on, guys. Was this well planned? Was the quality of the intelligence weighed and the reliability of the source considered? Is this the way we want our government to interact with its citizens?

Even more disturbing...has the pertinent government tried to deal with the problem or even acknowledged a problem? No.

And this scenario is playing out over and over across America...often with tragic results. I weep for my country.
 
I see several problems.

1. The them against us syndrom. The Police Have it, but so do alot of the citizens.

2. Generalizations. One bad kid or even a group of bad kids don't make all kids bad. One idiot from 'Bama burning a Cross, doesn't make all southerners Racists. Same with Cops, there are bad ones to be sure, and the good ones are trying to weed them out.

3. There is a perception on the part of some of the "public" and some of the (mostly)Younger Officers that showing kindness, or being freindly is a sign or weakness. This leads to Storm trooper tactics in some officers, and/or gets some Citizens in trouble because they try to push the Officer around. Never argue with an Officer on the street-- Take it to court. And Please don't call me a lyer. I might be mistaken or even saw things the wrong way, but most LEOs don't just make up charges on strangers.

REmember when the ATF comes to get your guns a cop like me might be with them. Right behind them in fact. You start at the front and work back, I'll start at the back and work forward, then we'll have coffee. ; -)
 
Mr. VanderLinden,

Will you move here, please. Or may I move next door to you?

You know there does seem to be a communications problem. Two cases in point: (Please note the following is over a fifteen year time span...doesn't happen often :)) I was traveling at an inordinate amount of speed and met a deputy sheriff. She couldn't get turned because there was about a mile of bumper to bumper traffic directly behind me. I kept going and was over hill and dale before she got turned around and the blue lights on. OK. Got stopped by another deputy sheriff 15 miles down the road while going the speed limit. The deputy would not tell me why he stopped me just politely asked me to wait. Well, the officer I had flown low by pulled up in about ten minutes and she was furious. Seemed to think I was laughing at her and was elated by getting one over on her. No such thing. I politely informed her that I was indeed the person who was speeding and would not contest a ticket in court. She could not seem to mentally process this and continued to loudly and belligerently berate me on the roadside. Guess she doesn't get many who will confess guilt politely :) I talked to her in a courteous manner...I expect the same courtesy.

I came up on a Georgia State Trooper going 75 in a 55. Well, I slowed down to 55 and we traveled along about a mile or two when he pulled over to the shoulder. I passed him and he pulled in behind me with the blue lights. I stopped, got my license out, and waited with both hands atop my window sill. Well, rarely have I witnessed such ranting and raving. I once again informed the officer that I was indeed going 75 in a 55 and would not contest it in court. Also informed him that while I would accept a ticket that his verbal behaviour was inacceptable and it would be best for the both of us if we could begin the conversation over on a more civil basis.

I'll talk and talk politely. I'll do my arguing, if any, in a court with a lawyer. But compadres, I know fine, upstanding, law abiding citizens who will not tolerate such verbal abuse from anyone. If someone comes at them with "fighting words" and a belligerent manner they will retaliate. Why escalate things unneccessarily?
 
In light of Gary's request about finding the law about Federalization...I am finding some scary stuff.

Sorry if this particular link is off-topic but it does support our fears

http://www.ncsl.org/statefed/testimony/driveact.htm


I'll keep looking, but man oh man...do a search on Federalization and all sorts of nightmares are popping up

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
One thought about how we become afraid of cops. Nothing makes me madder than when I see a parent (S) with their child who is being cranky for one reason or another, and when I walk by in full uniform, they say, "You better behave or I'll have the police man take you to jail!" So kids learn early on that COP = Jaill. A lot of little kids are evenscared to talk to cops. When I grew up, I was taught that cops are good guys, and will help you. Now the only thing kids know about cops are that Mom and Dad will have them sent to jail for throwing a fit, or that on TV cops shoot every body who isn't a cop. What an image.

BTW, I consider myself one of the GOOD COPS. And I support 2nd amendment rights. If you think your local feds are arrogant, wait till they get stationed in ND and really think they've hit Mayberry.
 
Dakota..

Yeah, I hear you. I grew up on a farm and now own it. The county sheriff deputies patrol my area. In years past we knew them, the same deputy would patrol for years. We knew his name (first name) his wife's name, etc. Now they rotate deputies every 3 months...the deputy doesn't know anyone and and has the constant "cop face" when ever he/she looks at you. Not real conducive to good community relations out here in the boonies :)

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
I'll agree with Officer Van der Linden. It's too easy for a LEO to become jaded towards humanity and the job takes its toll on the LEO. A good sense of humor and strong community ties help keep the balance. Yes, I know that's easier said than done since some LEO refuse to live in the city (or in Marin County, CA, can't afford to) where they work.

Spartacus, some of the old stuff on traffic stops we were taught still applies. If you do a stop, you either chew the subject out or write a cite; but never both. The reasoning was that if somebody got chewed out but didn't get a cite, they'd figure it was the lesser of two evils. If you're going to give a cite, be Joe Friday and remain courteous and professional at all times. That way if it goes to IA, you're clean. For myself, where discretion could be exercised, if the offender was polite and didn't have any lenghty record of driving offenses, I'd let them off with a warning.
Dakota Law Dog: most of the cops I know are good guys. Like yourself, they conduct themselves professionally when enforcing the laws, and in doing so, maintain the utmost respect for human rights & dignity (key words for promotion). They all believe in the 2nd Amendment as a right to the individual.

DC, that rotation plan may work out to get out of custody work and improve the morale within the department, but like you pointed out is poor for public relations (whatever happened to Community Oriented Policing?). It was the same when I was a kid growing up in the big city. We had a cop sent out to watch the intersection and we all knew him and liked him. Thanks for doing the research.

4v50 Gary

Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Glad to see such an open and honest discussion about such a sensitive, but critical subject. [Sorry this is so long, but this is a troubling issue.]

I now live in a small town in the middle of a very large metro area. Our local cops are great - community policing at its best. I've gotten to know a few of our LEO's, and regularly have lunch with one fellow. We talk politics, trade jokes, and discuss guns. I met him years ago when he was driving his cruiser past our home, and he stopped to help when he saw us wrestling a large cactus into a hole in the ground. My pregnant wife, 7-year-old boy and I were surprised when he pulled into our driveway, donned some gloves, and came up to introduce himself and help out. What a great, decent guy. That was what I thought a cop was, when I was a kid.

When I was a kid, my first scientific interest was geology, then paleontology - essentially the study of extinct animals - dinosaurs, etc. If you consider the future from a geologic perspective - well, the United States will obviously not exist forever. It may last for another 1,000 years, or it may last 10 years - who knows? I believe our country and our principles are very fragile. And, Farah is correct - they could both be in danger.

This Clinton episode is telling - perhaps in a disastrous way. Mussolini was said to gain power because he 'ran the trains on time'. Clinton supporters argue that Bill should stay because the economy is so good, people have jobs, the stock market is climbing ... Many Americans seem to have decided that principles are old fashioned, and no longer important. Many Americans seem content with King Clinton.

Personally, I believe the 'war on drugs' has been a very large contributor to our loss of spirit. The other night, at my son's Taekwondo class, I spoke to a fellow from South Africa - now a naturalized U.S. citizen. He mentioned they had friends that lost a home to seizure in the northwest U.S. One marijuana plant on the back porch, the black shirts came in at 2am, swearing and kicking the door down. Lost the house, and never got it back. True? I don't know. But, I do know it can happen, same with cash as noted above. I've heard too many stories like this - and it is utterly immoral and unethical for this to happen in America. They 'arrest the property' - that's the legal fiction. Don't even have to charge the owner with a crime. What a disgrace. [If you still doubt this, ask your U.S. Senator or Congressman - they can send the law to you.]

The examples could go on and on ... and, not just about the 'drug war'. We made a dreadful mistake by enacting more, and more intrusive laws. Our LEO's, especially at the federal level, have so many opportunities, and incentive, to intrude where there has been no real 'crime'. At one time, LEO's essentially enforced the major 'crimes', to truly protect and serve - crimes against murder, theft, kidnapping, assault and so on. Perhaps we started down the wrong path with alcohol prohibition, I don't know.

Hopefully this will end like most previous periods - not as bad as feared. But, if I could wave a magic wand I would have cops get back to enforcing laws that really protect each of us - a society that requires each of us to take responsibility for ourselves, and gives us back the freedom to exercise that responsibility. Would it be a perfect world? No. But I know more citizens would see their LEO as a friend, neighbor and ally. Our direction at this time seems much more troubling.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited 01-27-99).]
 
Art,
I'll take it black thanks.

Jeff,
I truly do share your concerns about this country. One of the things I've noticed is an effort to push the Older guys out. I think the reason is, because we keep screwing up the Training that these kids have been griven at College and the Academy.
It seems they are taught that Professional and Friendly are mutually exclusive. That Us verus them is Dogma. At the College level they get instruction in all the Librial (read Socialist) dogma. Constitution is taught only as a document that stands in the way of Doing what a "good Cop" is suposed to do. When they send them out on the street Us old timers have them almost human again in about 2 years, that gauls the heck out of the Federalazation boys. They don't want Community Policing. The Don't want the public to be on good terms with the Police. After all then Crime would go down because the people would help the police and they couldn't pass more laws to take our rights.

As to Drug forfeitures, The original intent was good, ie. use the criminals own money to fight crime. But it got to be a money grab. Soon the courts will make it manditory for there to be an arrest before anything can be siezed, and considering how some Agencies have used this law, I agree.

[This message has been edited by Raymond VanDerLinden (edited 01-28-99).]
 
Mr. VanDerLinden:

Pleased to make your aquaintance, sir. I am always overjoyed to meet LEO who are men, and gentlemen at that. I will bleed with and die for, if necessary, any local LEO in need. I feel that being a citizen of this unfortunately declining country makes this my duty. Meeting folks like you reinforces my belief that there are plenty of good guys left, federales be damned.
 
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