This changes things...

[JGulley317]

C0untZer0 and Mello2u, most helpful posts. I'll keep our handguns separate and get her one of her own. I think that's the best option and agree... I'd like to be %100 happy with the first handgun I buy, but want her to be %100 comfortable with the handgun she has to use. I'd hate for her to pick my handgun up in a situation and not be comfortable using it. She should start on a .22. Then work her way up. Thanks everyone for your comments and opinions.

 

[going_home]

Look at the Charter Arms Pit Bull .40 .

 

[arentol]

Start her on a .22lr rented at the range. When she is comfortable with that have her try a 9mm at the range. If she has trouble operating either gun at all, especially even the slightest problem with racking the slide, then forget getting a semi-auto. If she ever does have to use it in an emergency and it jams she will be screwed. In that case have her try a .357 revolver loaded with .38spcl next. That is a very popular setup for women because revolvers take less strength to operate and are simpler overall as well. If she likes that, then get a .357 and you can carry it loaded with .357 and switch it back to .38spcl when it is left at home for defensive use.

 

[LarryFlew]

While I am a semi guy all the way I agree with Arentol, start with range rentals and/or she might be much better off with an easy to learn easy to shoot easy to load etc revolver.

I did the purchase thing with my granddaughter and she quickly went from 22 to 32 to 9 to 45 so fast I had 3 guns to sell. She was 14 at the time and now shoots mostly 45 at 18 years old.

My wife like the 9 BUT has trouble racking the slide so we might have to back off to revolver for her.

CZ fan attic so I have 8 different ones but would never rule out another brand.

 

[shaunpain]

A couple of things to consider:

Don't treat your mom like she's a frail, old lady. People have a tendency to suggest .38 revolvers and such nonsense to women because we fail to consider the fact that, like any other mouth-breathing man, they aren't idiots and can learn to operate machinery. I've seen women handle plenty of power (like a Desert Eagle, those things are VICIOUS!!!) with relative ease and anyone can learn to hit the x ring with practice. Your options are aplenty with either caliber and I would stick with anything that's full size. Your main concern may be the grip of the gun, and that's why I personally stay away from anything over 9mm in a staggered column (ie: double stack) magazine. Don't let the hammer or striker issue keep you back from anything, just understand the actions of both and that should be a consideration for you when purchasing. Also, single action only, double action only, or DA/SA should be a consideration. Me? I prefer the 1911 every time. It feels and shoots like a dream, it's a single stack, and it's single action only. I like the Hi Power because of the cock-n-lock feature as well. Those CZ-75s are great, but again, I'd stay away because I just don't do DA/SA. We all find out what we like eventually.

 

[JohnKSa]

Assuming that you settle on a semi-auto and are truly convinced that .40S&W is not a good fit for your mom then here's my recommendation.

As a broke college student, you would be better off buying a good quality 9mm instead of a .40S&W with a conversion barrel. Buying a .40S&W with a conversion barrel would mean that, besides the extra expense of a conversion barrel, you'll also need 2 kinds of ammunition and extra cleaning equipment.

To directly answer your question, while conversion barrels are typically fairly reliable, I would NEVER recommend nor use one for self defense.

Real, I know my laws. I talked to the local sheriff while applying for my LTCH. You are wrong. This is all legal.

Be careful here. First of all, while I have gotten some good advice from LE, I've also run into some LEOs who have mistaken impressions about certain aspects of the law. To the extent that I have even heard one offer to perform a straw purchase for a friend.

Second, the fact that you can legally own a gun is not relevant. It is illegal to have someone else purchase the gun from an FFL for you with your money. Period. If the money comes from you and the gun goes to you but you didn't fill out the 4473 form then it's a straw purchase. Doesn't matter if you have your permit to carry. Doesn't matter if you could have legally bought it yourself. If person who is providing the money and who ends up with the gun isn't the person filling out the 4473 it's a straw purchase.

You can either buy one from a non-FFL, or someone can purchase one for you from an FFL and give it to you as a gift. In the latter case, it would be illegal for money to change hands from you to the purchaser as that would constitute a straw purchase EVEN if you can legally own and carry the handgun. You would both be guilty of breaking at least one federal law.

Ammunition is a different story.

 

[arentol]

I am not suggesting that he treat his mother like a frail old lady. I am suggesting that he be cognizant of the possibility she may not be strong enough for a semi-auto before buying one. Then I made a suggestion of a firearm that would resolve that problem and provide him with a powerful firearm at the same time.

 

[JGulley317]

JohnKSa, Thanks for explaining a straw purchase. Someone else mentioned it, but was ignorant about it. You we're very clear and to the point. I thought I knew my laws, maybe I don't. If your correct then the LEO is wrong. I have LEO's come into my work all the time so I'll be more then happy to ask one of them about this again... My state has some crazy laws. But, if it's the case then that's fine! Me and my mother could use a gift exchange soon. She wants a new tv, so that works out great!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Also, I just thought about this. What if I just got her a gun of her own? Like a .22? Nothing too expensive. I'd rather not spend the money, but I can adapt to what would be best for her. It'd be just for around the house, she wouldn't carry. She doesn't have a LTCH.

Shoot a large-ish size guy who perhaps is doped up with a .22 and all it'll do is make him mad -- if he even notices.

A .22 is a good platform for teaching total newbies to shoot. It should never be mistaken for a self-defense "weapon." Yes, you can kill someone with a .22. The problem is, those little tiny holes create little tiny wound channels. The assailant may bleed out and die an hour or three later -- but think how much damage he can do to your mother in that time.

 

[JohnKSa]

Shoot a large-ish size guy who perhaps is doped up with a .22 and all it'll do is make him mad -- if he even notices.

I'm not a fan of the .22 rimfire for self-defense, but with that said, this quote is ridiculous.

Sure, it is possible to shoot someone with a .22 and not cause any significant injury, but that doesn't mean it's not possible to stop someone with a .22LR. It certainly has the potential to be rapidly effective--it's just that the probability of that happening is somewhat less than with a typical centerfire service pistol class handgun caliber.

It's also true that it's possible to shoot an attacker with almost any caliber and inflict a non-incapacitating wound. There's far more to this issue than just the number stamped on the box of ammo that goes in the gun.

The assailant may bleed out and die an hour or three later...

Or he might drop in his tracks if the bullet hits something critical. The .22LR isn't a great choice, by any stretch of the imagination, for self-defense, but sweeping comments implying or stating outright that it absolutely can't or won't stop an assailant are gross exaggerations.

It's a poor choice for self-defense. But that's not the same thing as being totally ineffective nor does its use absolutely preclude a favorable outcome for the defender.

I would never recommend a .22LR handgun as a first choice for self-defense, but I also wouldn't tell someone who can't or won't choose anything else that what they've chosen can't do anything more than make their attacker mad. Because it's not true.

 

[JGulley317]

Well, I talked to her about getting buying her own handgun. I told her I'd even give her the money for it. She said she didn't want one. She just wanted to know how to use it in case I was shot or some other scenario in a SD situation. But I think even for practice I should start her off on the .22? Then let her work her way up. Wouldn't want her to start any bad habits. Agree?

 

[lee n. field]

I possibly wanted to get whatever gun I choose in a 40S&W. Though I feel this will be way too much power for her. Should I get a 9mm or 40S&W with a conversion barrel.

Get a 9mm.

I figure after then I can get a 40S&W. I just want something that she can be comfortable with if she needs to use it. Any help here?

Then she needs to try them out.

I was also looking into hammer fired handguns, though I like them both. Personally I think striker fire is easier.

Hammer, striker, it doesn't matter. Really, it doesn't. I can point you to at least one striker fired gun that's awfully hard to shoot.

'm 20... As long as, I teach her how to shoot, ... and teach her gun safety.

How much experience shooting do you have?

 

[Ben Towe]

Gulley,
Your local sheriff might be well versed in state law but maybe not so much in Federal law; and therein lies the rub. You cannot have someone buy a gun for you from an FFL holder (i.e. a gun shop). That is a straw purchase. However, as far as I can ascertain, you may legally purchase a handgun in a private sale at the age of 18. You still can't purchase ammo, but as far as I know there are no laws pertaining to the straw sale of ammunition. I would want to do a double check on all the Federal, state and local laws before proceeding however, because I am no attorney and I could be mistaken about some laws there. The 9mm would be a good choice if you are absolutely limited to a do-all gun for both of you.

 

[meemah]

My vote goes to a Sig 239. I just recently got one in 9mm and am thoroughly pleased. It being all steel gives it less recoil and it has the right amount of grip. My hand fits perfectly. I got medium sized hands. If u want your mom to shoot well and don't want to get a. 22, I think this would be an excellent gun. Plus its easy enough to carry.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Sure, it is possible to shoot someone with a .22 and not cause any significant injury, but that doesn't mean it's not possible to stop someone with a .22LR. It certainly has the potential to be rapidly effective--it's just that the probability of that happening is somewhat less than with a typical centerfire service pistol class handgun caliber.

It's also true that it's possible to shoot an attacker with almost any caliber and inflict a non-incapacitating wound. There's far more to this issue than just the number stamped on the box of ammo that goes in the gun.

The assailant may bleed out and die an hour or three later...

Or he might drop in his tracks if the bullet hits something critical. The .22LR isn't a great choice, by any stretch of the imagination, for self-defense, but sweeping comments implying or stating outright that it absolutely can't or won't stop an assailant are gross exaggerations.

No, they are not gross exaggerations. They are restatements of the opinions of experts.

One of the gun magazines did an article just a month or two ago on the .22 as a self-defense round. I bought the magazine at a news stand just for the article, because I thought the idea was so extraordinary. Turned out, almost the entire article was about the .22 Magnum round, and how a couple of brand new rounds from Hornady and one other company were perhaps marginally effective for self-defense. The .22LR was mentioned only in passing, and it was pretty much stated that it was ineffective for self-defense.

Part of the reason was that which I repeated above: .22LR is a small bullet that makes a small wound channel. It was noted that people have been killed with .22LR firearms, but it was also noted that in such cases the person generally survives long enough to do serious damage before ultimately becoming incapacitated.

If you are in a situation that calls for using a firearm to defend yourself, at home or on the street, you need to stop the attack quickly, before the assailant can get his hands on you. Enough respected sources and experts have said and written that "there is no such thing as a one-shot stop" that I hope you aren't going to dispute that. People have absorbed multiple hits from 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 Automatic and still maintained the capacity to do harm, at least for a minute or so -- and that's all it takes. To even suggest that a .22LR even might be suitable as a self-defense weapon IMHO is irresponsible. If you choose to defend yourself with a .22, by all means go for it. But don't suggest to a young man that his mother would be safe defending herself with a .22.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Well, I talked to her about getting buying her own handgun. I told her I'd even give her the money for it. She said she didn't want one. She just wanted to know how to use it in case I was shot or some other scenario in a SD situation. But I think even for practice I should start her off on the .22? Then let her work her way up. Wouldn't want her to start any bad habits. Agree?

You opened this discussion by telling us you are a broke college student. I assumed that meant you can only afford to buy ONE firearm right now, so it was important to pick the best one to serve multiple purposes. Self defense and carry for you, and home defense for your mother.

A .22 is NOT the best gun for those purposes. Starting with your carry as the primary purpose for buying a gun, would you choose to carry a .22? Didn't this discussion start off as a choice between a 9mm and a .40 S&W? The fact that your mother has (wisely) decided she should learn to shoot doesn't negate those choices. If she can learn to shoot a .22 she can learn to shoot a 9mm. Just don't get an ultra-lightweight pocket pistol -- get a decent 9mm that offers a comfortable grip (for you and for your mother) and enough barrel length and weight to be controllable. If you don't teach her bad habits, she won't learn bad habits.

 

[Cajun Ken]

Listen to my story, and then consider my recommendation.
A couple of years ago, I started trying to get my wife ( I can't tell her age, but I'm 75 )to undergo handgun training and eventually buy one for her to have available for SD in and around the house. Not for carry. She reluctantly agreed, and upon completion of the classroom training, we started looking at Handguns. She quickly ruled out semi-autos because of the difficulty in racking the slide and clearing malfunctions. We then started looking at revolvers. I ruled out SA only. She liked the feel of the snubbies, but the recoil and trigger pull turned her off. The larger revolvers were too heavy. At this point she was tired of trying out handguns and made up her mind that she would not find one she was happy with so we quit looking. FAST FORWARD TO 3 DAYS AGO: I had just bought a used S&W .38 cal, Mod 10-8 with a 4" Bull Barrel and I was trying it out on a range my son and I built on his property ( about 300 yds from my house ). I immediately fell in love with the Mod 10. It's fairly heavy but well balanced, sweet trigger pull,light recoil and very, very accurate. About that time my wife showed up and I was so impressed with the Mod 10 that I wanted her to see how nice it was. Mostly to humor me, she agreed to dry fire it a couple of times. After the first time she got a "I don't believe it" look on her face and tried it again and then said that though it was heavy, it was well balanced and she had no problem keeping it on target and she liked the DA trigger pull. She then loaded it with 6 rounds of 158 Gr, SWCBB and put all 6 rounds in a 3" circle at 10 yds. I may soon be hunting for another Mod 10 for myself.

I suggest you have your Mom look at a S&W Mod 10. They are available and reasonably priced.

 

[jad0110]

Well, I talked to her about getting buying her own handgun. I told her I'd even give her the money for it. She said she didn't want one. She just wanted to know how to use it in case I was shot or some other scenario in a SD situation. But I think even for practice I should start her off on the .22? Then let her work her way up. Wouldn't want her to start any bad habits. Agree?

Yes, borrowing or renting a .22 for her first training outing or 3 is a good idea. Much less intimidating to start out. And if you have a choice, pick a .22 revolver for her to start. I find that with nervous new shooters, grasping the loading and unloading process (as well as assessing the gun's status) is much simpler with a revolver (again, when dealing with a scared noob). I've seen LOTS of new, nervous shooters who were completely flummoxed over semi autos:

"Is there a round in the chamber or not? Is there a magazine in it? Is it loaded? Which way does the mag go in? Do I rack the slide or lock it to the rear then press the slide release? Or can I pull the slide back and let it go? Do I ease it forward or let it slam forward? Do I do that before or after I put the magazine in? Is it ready to fire? Okay, I unloaded the gun by racking the slide (a round came out) then I removed the mag, so it's empty, right ?"

And that's even on an auto without a manual safety for a decocker, like a Springfield XDM.

With a modern DA revolver, actuate the cylinder release and open the cylinder. Kinda self explanatory from there.


BTW, this is the best place for you and your mother to start:

http://www.corneredcat.com/

 

[jad0110]

Then she needs to try them out.

I agree with this as well. Ideally, you'll be able to find a gun (probably 9mm since your funds are limited) that works for both of you. If she is small, she may also have small hands that might have a tough time grasping and then reaching the trigger of a fat double stack auto. My wife has tiny hands, and she can't actually reach the trigger of a double stacker well enough to operate it.

So you may be looking at slim single stack 9s with a short trigger reach. The 1911 platform (in 9mm) comes to mind. Kahrs may be an option as well.

If you don't teach her bad habits, she won't learn bad habits.

If only it were that simple. Most of us don't need training to learn bad habits, it just sort of comes naturally.

Those CZ-75s are great, but again, I'd stay away because I just don't do DA/SA.

FYI, the CZ-75B is a DA/SA with a manual safety, and it can be carried in Condition 1 (cocked and locked). OTH, mine has a terribly gritty trigger (in DA or SA) which makes it challenging to shoot. I'll get it cleaned up by a gunsmith here soon.

 

[Vividia]

I would recommend breaking apart your goals. You clearly like semi-autos, and that is great.

However, for a home defense, night stand gun for Mom, a revolver might make lots more sense. There is less to learn, and it's as easy to use as a spoon.

That's how I started a couple years ago (a woman in mid 50's here), and now I own and shoot everything from a Ruger MkII and a S&W 617 to a Desert Eagle .50 and a S&W 500.

If you want to see if a revolver is loaded, open the cylinder. No dropping the mag then racking to empty the chamber. Pick it up, point it and pull the trigger. If it doesn't go off, pull it again. No racking or fussing with buttons.

People complain about double action revolver triggers, but I promise you there is no trigger out there that will keep your trigger pull more honest than shooting a revolver DA. If i have shot nothing but semi-autos for awhile, and i see my groups starting to open up a bit, I just get out an 8 shot revolver, load fewer than the cylinder will hold, spin it, and see what happens when I pull the trigger on an emply chamber. If the barrel dives, then it's my bad trigger finger and I work on it til it's fixed.

I would recommend a K or L frame revolver with a 3 or 4 inch barrel - like a Model 10, 19, 66, 686, and the like. (I am a S&W fangirl, so others can chime in on other brands). I own all of the above, and honestly, the buttery smooth trigger of my old model 19 compares very favorably with my performance center 627 N frame.

Note that everything i have listed is chambered in .357 mag. (That is still the most versatile round out there, in my opinion.) However, each can be practiced with .38 special, which is an easy shooting round, for sure, and nice HD ammo in .38 special is available, too. .38 special is more expensive than 9mm, but not hugely so, and deals can be found on the net. I ended up learning to reload, too, so that just adds to the enjoyment for me.

Grips are important, and there are more choices on a revolvers since you are not limited by the idea that your hand has to be wrapped around a magazine. The S&Ws i mentioned above can be gripped either large or small, round or square, rubber or wood, without a lot of fuss.

If you insist on semi-auto in a 9, then you might consider a single stack 9 in the S&W Model 39 family. I have a 39-2 and it fits my hand like a dream, and i shot it well the first time i picked it up. Mags can be had that hold 9 shots. THere are other, newer versions of it, but I mention it because the grip shape is so very nice compared to some of the newer "blocky" designs.

I have never been a glock fan since they just do not fit my hand, but I also own a 92fs, cz75b, couple of hi powers, pm9, m&p9, 229, and a couple of others. I like them all, but the 39-2 fits my hand the best, hands down if you will pardon the pun!

Having said all that about the 9s, though, I still recommend starting with a good old revolver.

Just two cents worth from the womanly perspective.