Thinking WAY, way outside the box :)

OK. It's still practical even with the "extenda-grip" concept :).

Say we're starting with a 1911-oid. We put an 8rd mag in it as the carry mag, so the collapsed grip is no longer than the mag.

Draw it while extending the grip, shoot your nine rounds, hit the mag release and drop that mag. Now insert a 20rd mag up through the whole grip assembly for your reload.

8rd mags for the reloads aren't practical, but 15 to 20 round mags are depending on overall length :).

I suspect that a true two-handed grip would actually help with recoil control. I don't *know* that for sure but it does make sense.
 
I got the impression from alot of those replys, that most of the posters didn't follow you down "that road"...

but I think I've already been there...

I used a 2 hand hold on my "long grips" when I had the magazines... coupled with the early "daylight" laser... I thought I was pretty high tech :o
 
Jim, that's clever thinking. Good for you.

In medieval Japan, samurai would traditionally leave their katanas (roughly 3 feet, end-to-end) by the door when visiting a house, but they'd keep their wakizashis (closer to 2 feet) for use in small hallways.

If you add too much weigh to a magazine, it'll add enough mass to the gun to make it harder to move around and stop. It doesn't take much - compare swinging a full thermos to an empty one.

But short of that, why not add more rounds and more stability for models that don't need to be compact?
 
Mr. March,

Now we know why you stick with carrying a SA revolver. :D

Seriously, one can better control a semi-auto, especially a 1911, with a higher girp. This is the whole reason for a beavertail grip safety on a 1911. The offhand should help stabilize the gun by firmly controlling the gun by holding the frame with weak thumb tip actually forward of the trigger. This prevents lateral movement of the gun and increases accuracy.

Now, I'm all in favor of a 20 round reload but my grip would stay the same.
 
I suspect that a true two-handed grip would actually help with recoil control. I don't *know* that for sure but it does make sense.
Click to expand...

Kinda difficult to do the 'push-pull' when your hands are on two different planes

To my way of thinking, the more complicated body mechanics are, the more room for error. The recoil occurs over the top of the hands, not between them, so the lower hand has more of a moment arm than the top hand. Instead of 'push-pull' as in a standard two hand grip working where your muscles and skeletal structure give you a firm base to push and pull against, now you're using two spots instead of one, and one pushes and one pulls, fore and aft

In my opinion, this then makes the possibility of a pivot point, where the lower hand tends to push forward, tilting the muzzle up. The upper hand simply holds the gun, and becomes a pivot point.

I think that 'recoil control' is hard, but 'recoil management' is very possible. I'm just not sure that trying to fight recoil is a path to good recoil management

With a sword, the over-under is used for more brute power in the Western concept. In the Eastern concept, the over-under grip has a gap, for the purpose of flexibility, control, and concentration of power at the last few inches of blade. I'm having trouble equating the over-under grip with better pistol control
 
I'm surprised more folks (like Mike and Chris_B) have not said this, so I'll reinforce. A sword is a lever. The two handed grip allows the wielder to more effectively move the sword about the fulcrum of the guard. He can deliver greater slashing power, as Mike said. Or better control of the weapon's point, as Chris_B said. I am no swordsman but this is plain physics. Two hands placed hand-covering-hand on a sword cannot accomplish this.

Two-handed technique (hand-covering-hand) for handgun accomplishes support and stability for the weapon. Unlike a sword, this weapon must be stationary and in a certain position in space while another action happens (the trigger pull) in order to be effective. Just as there are currently multiple two-handed hand-covering-hand strategies for pistol (Weaver, isoscoles, etc.), I'm sure effective two-handed long-grip styles could be developed. But IMHO these styles wouldn't be any more effective than what we have now, and you would have the trade off of a less-concealable weapon.

IMHO long grips on a handgun, whether fixed or deployable, do not significantly add to the usefulness of the weapon. They do not suggest an alternate usage technique which makes the weapon more effective. Unlike a two-handed grip on a sword, which does enable you to wield the weapon both differently and more effectively.

-cls
 
Seriously, one can better control a semi-auto, especially a 1911, with a higher girp.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about raising the grip of either hand. I'm talking about lowering the off-hand grip - a lot :).
 
Some good points, though. The power of the sword depends on the power of the human wielding it. The power of a handgun comes from the powder charge propelling a bullet. Essentially, a firearm is just another labor-saving device.

Jim
 
grip

No marbles lost but no prizes for thinking through the purpose for/the function of a particular way of holding a weapon.
The two handed hold on a sword - as has been mentioned - is a way of adding both control and power. There is also something to the forward hand on a sword acting as a fulcrum when the blade is brought down (or across). That same kind of movement on a pistol that is being held like a sword - one hand above the other - would be devastating to accuracy.
one can better control a semi-auto................with a higher girp.
Click to expand...
Not just a semi-auto. The best control of a pistol of any type is with the hands as close to the line of the bore as possible; both hands increase this stability for many shooters. The hands are not adding any power to a gun, they only control.
Having the hands sword like one above the other on an extended pistol grip also creates the problem of balancing the lateral thrust of each hand. When the hands are together, this is relatively easy. If they were separated, all bets are off.
Pete
 
Get a G19 or G26, shoot both with the standard magazines with 2 hands and then a 33rd magazine with a sword grip. You'll find out which is better.
 
Uhh, . . . umm, . . . hey, Jim.................

They make one for two hands.

It's called a rifle.

Some of the models are M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, AR15, M16, AK, M14.

They all take two hands, . . . and just like the two handed sword, . . . they definitely multiply your war making ability.

Especially the M60, . . . now that's a two hander :D

May God bless,
Dwight
 
There's a lot of different styles of swords, for a lot of different ppurposes. (just like pistols).

There are many that are used with only one hand; your curved saber, a cavalry weapon, is meant for one-hand slashing while controlling the mount with the other hand. Your gentleman's smallswoard is used in the duel, one-handed, as a primarily thrusting weapon. The Italians developed a variation that embodied using a dagger in the other hand, or else a heavy cloak that could bind the opponents' weapon long enough tp run him through. It worked well against the untrained, but was frowned upon as somehow sneaky. (See Cloak and Dagger).

A broadsword is a two-handed weapon, suitable for mayhem in relatively open terrain. A boarding cutlass was used in more confined spaces.

So situation made for careful weapon selection. Just like today. Pistols are traditionally one-hand weapons; a traditionalist would be grossly offended at being shot down from an isosceles hold. Under the right circumstances he could prevail against a two-handed opponent in a gunfight.

The gun/sword idea makes for a thought-provoking thread, and is not so farfetched a comparison as to be without value. And don't forget, laws were passed to prevent people from walking the streets armed with steel centuries ago, so the comparison has resonance in our time.
 
Great Idea Jim.

We at the Fireams Research Institute of the Amazon (FRIA) will get right on it.

With just a couple modifications I'm sure we could "steam roll" the prototype through the ATF. Even the legendary "Terminator" has given the nod so California here we come.

The Director
 
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