Thinking of going back to simplicity for hunting...

Growing up and hunting mostly in my home state of SC; I always felt that using glass, unless you're in one of the wide open states was kind of "overkill". (...)
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(Quoting this as a reference to what stirred my thoughts, more than as a direct reply, FYI.)

Even out here where I hunt in some of the "wide open states" ... Most honest, realistic, ethical hunters will tell you that the average shot is under 200 yards for nearly any big game animal.
Even most antelope, in truly wide open prairies, are taken at 150 yards or less. It seems counter-intuitive, but it's almost easier to get close in the wide open flats, than it is in the rolling hills.

With a little practice, pretty much anything where I hunt (Wyoming, Idaho, Utah - from mountain to desert) can be taken with iron sights. Of course, there are certain areas and the occasional bad year where/when you just can't get close, or the only legal animal you see is at 400+ yards. But, overall, you can fill almost any big game tag inside of 200 yards. And, for me, that's iron sight range, as long as the cartridge is suitable and the shooter is adequately-practiced (as they should be no matter the situation).

I believe that "long range" cartridges and scopes are, all too often, used as a crutch by modern hunters that just aren't proficient with their tools.
And I will freely admit that I came to that conclusion after quite a bit of contemplation on my own skills, practice sessions, and usage of my hunting rifles; and saw that I had started leaning on the cartridge and scope more as my skill diminished (from lack of practice). I have plenty of "overkill" cartridges and more than my share of scopes mounted to hunting rifles, but won't be getting rid of anything.

Everything has its place.
Though I see my scopes, .30-06s, .270s, and even the .35 Whelen a little differently now than I did a few years ago (let alone other people's "magnums"), I still feel that they're useful and justifiable. I just need to keep my eye on the prize, so to speak, and make sure I keep trying to at least maintain my skill with iron sights and "limited" cartridges like .30-30 and .444 Marlin; handguns; and the black powder belchers. If possible, I hope to get back to the iron sight "crack shot" that everyone said I was as a kid.
 
Thanks for all the responses!

Thanks, as it's good to see I'm not the only one!

Something that has stuck in my head was a fella I met a few years back. I went to our club range one afternoon & there was a lone shooter there so it was just the two of us. He was getting ready for deer season & he was shooting a Win 94 .30-30 that he said he tuned up himself. It looked old but it was pristine. It had a ghost ring rear sight. He was shooting it at 100yds & I swear he was mostly getting 2" groups! What was more amazing was his ammo. He was shooting paper patched bullets! He showed me some unseated bullets & they were meticulously wrapped & trimmed. I could tell this guy was a perfectionist. He went on to explain that he cast the bullets out of dead-soft lead & the lubricated linen paper kept them from leading the bore. He said those soft bullets mushroomed like crazy in tissue without coming apart.

I lost track of the guy but its funny how things stick in your head. I was shooting a .22-250 with a 20x scope that day, but I was mostly watching his target!
 
Deer hunting is "grocery shopping" for me. Our immediate family consumes 5-7 deer per year. Now that I'm retired, I do have more time to spend out hunting but the bottom line is--something has got to end up in the freezer. Depending on conditions, I may be able to use a lot of discretion OR may have to take any possible shot.
During those times when I can spend time just piddling around, an open sighted, short range saddle gun is nostalgic and interesting. When time is short and hunting has been difficult(like last year-deer numbers down 25-30%), I pick up the scoped 25/06 and do what needs done.
 
If you're bored with rifles--try bow-hunting. : )

Instinctive, home-made wood bow and arrows, still hunting. Doesn't get much better than that . : )

editor's note: I'm probably the world's worst hunter, but I always have fun out in the woods. ; )

...went out for toms last week (only my second time) with a friend and guide. After setting up carefully decoys and blinds, I started getting eaten alive by swarms of black flies and deer flies. It got so bad that I grabbed my shotgun and bailed out of my blind into the woods, I just had to get out of there. They were better prepared and stayed put, I didn't even have a call. I bushwhacked through the woods and eventually picked up some fresh moose tracks which I followed for a while, spooking a grouse along the way. After an hour or so I came across a skidder logging trail, and at roughly 175 yds a group of 4 or 5 turkeys crossed. I briefly thought about pursuing them into the woods--but figured I had no way to call them so I continued south towards my friends, who in fact had just finished packing up. When I suggested going after them the guide said better to leave them be and hopefully they would roost nearby. I never found out because I had to come back home--empty-handed--but what a great day anyway! : )
 
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I believe that "long range" cartridges and scopes are, all too often, used as a crutch by modern hunters that just aren't proficient with their tools.
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I have glass mounted on my 77/44. It is definitely not a long range gun. But at my age, the scope makes me much more accurate than with the irons that came with it and the reticle is easier to see in low light conditions than those same irons. I don't consider that a crutch any more than I consider the irons a crutch over shooting by just sighting down the barrel. Most "long range" cartridges work just as well on deer @ 70 yards as they do @ 400. Has little to do with proficiency, other thn using what you are proficient with. I've seen and trailed just as many deer limping thru the woods after being shot with a 30-30 iron sighted lever as I have from 30-06s wearing glass. The reason many of us go back to the basics, has little to do with the success of the hunt, but the hunt itself. We realize we have compromised ourselves with using weapons that are not the most efficient, but accept those limitations and hunt ethically within them. No different than giving up the heated box stand overlooking the food plot to go back and sneak hunt where they sleep.

Do some hunters use the Big Magnums with a Hubble Telescope mounted on them in a vain attempt to make up for their lack of hunting skills? Sure there are, but no more than those folks who think they have the skills to use basic firearms for fair chase hunting and end up wounding animals most every year. Neither is doing themselves any favors.
 
True words

Franken, there is a lot of truth in your statements. I've got an uncle that has many big bore guns and even stated that he wants a .50 CAL rifle. He's got set ups for long range out of the wazoo and I feel it is his right to have them if he wants them; however, I keep asking him where in SC will he exercise them? He never does, but like my grandmother used to say; "He earned the money, he can spend it how he likes."

Stag, I did own two fiberglass longbows coming up, but never really hunting with them so to speak. That same uncle did take a couple of deer with his compound bow over the years.

I can't say that I am bored with rifle, but I may get back into hunting as I get more time on my hands and include bow hunting to add a little variety.
 
Many years ago I got a 308 Norma Magnum rifle. Shot a buck in Texas at over 400 yards. Other than bragging rights for about an hour, the event was rather boring. Since then I have used Marlin 336, Winchester 94 and Remington 760 in the usual calibers. In NY state woods, long shots are rare. Average range for deer is about 40 yards. I've shot them as close as ten feet. That has been fun. Once in NY I shot a deer through the trees at about 100 yds. That was interesting because picking a bullet path thru the woods was a bit tricky. But all the rest were 30 yards or less.
 
I have been successfully hunting with my older Glenfield 30-30 carbine for more than three decades. It's put a lot of meat on our table and a few nice trophies for the wall, too. This short carbine proved to be ideal for a mule deer hunt in western South Dakota. I've never had to take a shot farther than 150 yards and within this distance my 30-30 is very lethal indeed!

I continue to carry my Schrade Golden Spike hunting knife because of its well designed shape and good edge retention, too. Why mess with good hunting tools?

But I will state that modern hunting boots are superior to those that we bought 40 years ago. Lighter, warmer, and better insoles for comfort.

Jack

 
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Stag, I did own two fiberglass longbows coming up, but never really hunting with them so to speak. That same uncle did take a couple of deer with his compound bow over the years.
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I hear the "rifle too easy" comment from some older hunters (never been the case for me since I'm relatively new to hunting) every now and then, but bow hunting takes it to a whole other level--mostly demanding getting closer and taking a better shot. I've yet to take a shot with my bow at game simply because I haven't got within close enough range where I thought I could make a good enough shot--and a high probability of the arrow reaching the target before it "jumped the string." Seems to me an issue with "making things more challenging" seems to often translate to "higher risk of wounded animal getting away and not tracked down."
 
My last deer was taken with a 336 30/30 with Ghost ring sights. I have a nice 7mm-08 but prefer the simplicity of the 30/30 almost all of my deer have been 15 to 35 yards as I hunt in thick woods. So the ghost rings are actually easier to use. There is something fun about shooting that 30/30 with those sights quick and easy no thinking just mount rifle and shoot.

Mwal
 
When my wife pretty much refused to cook venison, after a couple years I shifted to handgun hunting only. The meat on the table concept lost it's luster. Then slowly the hassle of finding places to hunt that don't require a significant investment (leases) has sunk in, I have pretty much stopped deer hunting. Getting a deer is just not worth the effort any more but I absolutely loved handgun hunting because of the challenge. It was like archery hunting+. I bow hunted when I was younger.

Never did the black powder thing which might be something new and fun. I have a little shot BP 50cal rifle.

So, I understand completely going back to your roots in terms of deer hunting. Enjoy yourself. For me it is all about having fun and being there and not necessarily scoring anymore. Probably need to make an effort this year to find a place to hunt that isn't too far away (driving distance without camping or motels). Then I'll bone up on my big bore shooting skills a bit.

I envy folks in PA who have so much public land to hunt (State Game Lands) even if they often are not the greatest hunting areas any more due to over use.
 
Pennsylvania overall sucks for deer hunting on public land. For over 20 years I have been going to WV and hunting public land on my vacation time. I don't always get a deer there, but I have at least seen a deer even in the worst drought years. Where I live I would have a better chance of killing a bear than a deer. If I hunt deer in PA now it is only a day or two. It would be nothing but luck if I actually saw one.
 
Pennsylvania overall sucks for deer hunting on public land. For over 20 years I have been going to WV and hunting public land on my vacation time. I don't always get a deer there, but I have at least seen a deer even in the worst drought years. Where I live I would have a better chance of killing a bear than a deer. If I hunt deer in PA now it is only a day or two. It would be nothing but luck if I actually saw one.
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I thought PA has one of the highest whitetail concentrations in the east?
 
Ain't no doubt in my mind that the .30-30 Win will kill everything in North America. Big game animals have no clue of what causes their brains to suddenly stop oxygenated blood resupply. While the .30-30 Win can do it all, the same ain't necessarily true for me. It's that age-vision thing that's been causing problems.

However, after many years of pursuing big game, I've finally figured out the really important stuff. Cartridge is mostly immaterial when it comes to inviting big game to dinner. What a bullet destroys deserves a lot more attention than what's stamped on a cartridge's head. It's a lot better to shoot closer than farther. It's a lot better to aim where any bullet will kill and kill quickly. Heavy rifles are no fun to carry all day. Big cartridges don't compensate for bad shooting. Big recoil = big flinch = big game live another day. A .243 Win (or .30-30 Win) in the boiler room is a whole lot better than an '06 to the guts. Most bad shots occur with really big cartridges.

Were I accorded a hunting rifle do-over -I ain't yet figured out who parcels out hunting rifle do-overs- I'd buy one and only one excellent quality .280 Rem and never need another rifle. Since I ain't got a .280 Rem, from here on out I'll be hunting with my .270 Win. Truth be told, there ain't a whole lotta difference between the two cartridges until we get to the legendary penetrative ability of 175 grain .284 bullets. But that would only come in to play were I required to shoot through-and-through the largest bear's shoulders. That fella from the Dark Continent a century ago culled darn near a hundred elephants using a 7x57 with 175 grain bullets.

The .270 Win is darn near a centenarian. That oughta qualify for simplicity. Besides that, it kills big game. With a Leopold 2.5x8, I can even see big game animals. Even better, it doesn't kick the holy heck outta me.

But, yeah, I do appreciate getting back to days of yore and roughing it like our big game killin' forefathers. When I get back to camp, I like to warm up next to a genuine Rocky Mountain campfire. When I'm good and warm, I'll make sure the mattress pad atop of my cot is inflated and positioned directly under my goose down sleeping. Then I'll turn down my bunking equipment, light the propane heater, sit by the fire while I grub a light dinner of a well-marbled Porterhouse, a side of asparagus, and finish it off with a slice of New York cheesecake. A little sip of decently aged scotch helps with aches that come with reckless youth. Right after my third yawn, I'm 'bout ready to feather. After I've done bunked for the night, I'll reach over and turn off the heater.

I've talked to Donald Trump 'bout building a genuine roughing it hunters' resort with hot tubs, saunas, weight room, masseuses, 5-star room service, and satellite TV. I had no clue he was busy with something really important that has done took him right outta the resort building business. So I guess it's a square a day if I'm lucky, a whole lotta walkin', and a cot at night.
 
BumbleBug wrote:

Thinking of going back to simplicity for hunting...
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I'm old guy that loves to deer hunt & I've been lucky enough to do it my whole life. I have many deer rifles & I've tuned them, loaded for them, scoped them, & for the most part they all shoot like lasers. But for some reason I've been mulling over the idea of taking the old Win 94 .30-30 with a peep sight out this season. Is it just me or do other hunters go simple some times?
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BB, Just do it. I did last fall.

Could have picked from many scoped rifles, but chose my No4 MK1*.
Got my deer and got a yote following a doe I decided to pass on.
 
SansSouci,

I have a Remington 700 BDL/DBM with 3x9 Leupold scope in 280 caliber, love the rifle and the cartridge, killed a lot of Missouri Whitetail with this set-up.
However if I was going to give up my handgun hunting I would take my Savage 99 Featherweight with iron sights in 300 Savage caliber, I've also killed a lot of Missouri Whitetails with this cartridge.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
Ain't that the truth

SanS,

My shoulder agrees with you on the big bore stuff. I had the itch to shoot something large caliber during range session in Richmond a few months ago and boy did I pay for it latter. I shot 9.3 x 62, 338 RUM, .458 and a few others. It was fun for a bit, but it sure cleared out the cobwebs and reminded my why I simplified my gun collection.
 
Sans, I never saw much difference in recoil between the 270 win and 30-06. Same would apply to the 280 Remington. As a young man, I got a 270 for deer hunting because Jack O'Conner used one and my Dad was a -06 guy. Wanted to be different.

Pennsylvania overall sucks for deer hunting on public land. For over 20 years I have been going to WV and hunting public land on my vacation time. I don't always get a deer there, but I have at least seen a deer even in the worst drought years.
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When PA implemented their more recent game management policy, deer dwindled in numbers on State Game Lands and there were lots of complaints from hunters. But it really isn't as bad now. You might give them another look or look at different SGL's. My brothers don't seem to have a problem getting a deer in PA and mostly on SGL's.
 
Glad I saw this post. Seeing how I did not get drawn for my area, I'm taking my Mod94. It does have 4x glass on it, as my eyes aren't what they used to be. But, I will have fun not the less.
 
I've hunted with everything from an arisaka type 44 cavalry carbine to the lastest and greatest AR15s... so yeah I would say sometimes I go simple and sometimes I go complicated:D
 
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