Thinking about a Form 1

T

Tucker 1371

New member
So I've found a few of these oil/fuel filter suppressor dealios and since I just bought a house and can't suck it up and drop the coin on a "real" silencer I figured this might be a good way to go for me.

I found this: http://gunthreadadapters.com/shop/u...-brake-for-34-npt-napa-4003-wix-24003-filter/

What I am wondering is if I can submit it as a Form 1 and serialize just the brake that way I can just replace the fuel filters when they get shot out.

I'm thinking about getting one 5/8x24 thread brake and installing adapters on both my M1A and AR15 and running it on both of them.
 
Unless they've changed their mind recently and I missed it, the ATF says you can't switch out the oil filter yourself, you have to send it to a manufacturer. The ATF doesn't just regulate the serialized part of a silencer, they also regulate the baffles, which they consider "silencer parts". For example, if I get a baffle strike on my Octane 9, SilencerCo can't just send me an extra baffle, I have to send the whole silencer in to them and they have to switch it out.

The same goes for the filter on an oil filter silencer: Only a licensed manufacturer of NFA firearms can switch out the oil filter. And it doesn't matter if it was a Form 4 or a Form 1; once you have made a Form 1 silencer you can't switch out parts yourself.

http://johnpierceesq.com/suppressors-solvent-traps-and-legal-traps/

Solvent_Trap_letter-940x1024.jpg
 
One of the local shops that sells silencers will let you pay half when they file the form 4, and the balance once it's approved (before you take possession).

Might ask around if anybody near you does something similar. The Form 4 is gonna take 4-6 months anyway, so that might be one way to swing it.
 
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But if I am the manufacturer, hence the Form 1 not Form 4, I can change it myself right?

The plan was to buy the muzzle adapter for the fuel filter, put a serial number on it, submit the form 1, and then when it comes back attach the fuel filter.
 
Unfortunately, thats not the way ATF is looking at it.

BOTH the adaptor and the filter must have the s/n engraved. You cannot just discard the filter and reengrave the new filter with the same #.

Just like a suppressor manufacture cant replace a blown out tube with a new one and just reuse the S/n

And you are NOT the manufacturer. That requires a certain type of FFL to "Manufacture" suppressors. You are the "maker"....different under the law
 
If you have a mechine shop make it (under your supervision) I dont know where you would send it to! May be you are right. Form 1 is very interesting!
 
Tucker 1371 said:
But if I am the manufacturer, hence the Form 1 not Form 4, I can change it myself right?
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Unfortunately, no. Sharkbite hit the nail on the head: You're not a manufacturer, you're just making and registering your own silencer. To be a manufacturer you'd need a Type 7 or Type 10 FFL along with a Class 2 SOT.

Once someone builds their Form 1 silencer they can't switch out any parts on that silencer that the ATF considers "silencer parts" (usually internal baffles) since that person isn't a licensed manufacturer of NFA firearms. And the ATF sees the filter on a oil filter silencer as a silencer part since it's basically the baffle assembly.
 
You have to find an FFL that has a Class 2 SOT (that's the SOT that lets them manufacture NFA items), they're the only ones who can switch out silencer parts. And only a Type 7 or Type 10 FFL can have a Class 2 SOT.

But yes, a Class 2 SOT can switch out silencer parts (like the oil filter).
 
Sharkbite said:
BOTH the adaptor and the filter must have the s/n engraved. You cannot just discard the filter and reengrave the new filter with the same #.

Just like a suppressor manufacture cant replace a blown out tube with a new one and just reuse the S/n
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I suppose I should clarify this part. The ATF has stated that they want the filter to be serialized to match the filter adapter, but they still consider the filter to be a silencer part and not the actual serialized silencer itself. That means a Class 2 SOT can switch out the oil filter just like it was a regular baffle, and you can send the whole thing directly to the SOT and they can sent it straight back to you when they're done doing the work.

But replacing a blow-out silencer tube (or the adapter for the filter) is just like replacing the whole silencer; it would have to be re-Form 4ed to you and you'd have to pay another $200 transfer tax and wait for the stamp to come back.
 
Just to clarify further, you wouldn't need a new tax stamp to replace the oil filter, just for the adapter is itself. The adapter is considered the registered silencer.

Since the oil filter is a just a silencer part, it can be changed out by a manufacturer as quickly as they can get to it. The last I checked, there were Class 2 SOTs who would do this for just $25.
 
But every time a fuel/oil filter is replaced I have to pay for another $200 transfer and wait X months, correct?

*edit*

Disregard the above. I get it now. So it is as I understood it before: the adapter is the registered part. If the adapter breaks I'm doing the whole Form 1 runaround all over again. BUT if the fuel filter gets shot out all I have to do is take it to the appropriate establishment with the appropriate licenses and have them screw on a new fuel filter and slap on the serial number to match the adapter. No Xfer tax, stamp, etc. Correct? Just pay the business for their service and be on my merry way?

IF all of that is the case, the only point I'm still unclear on is this: Can I put a serial number on a fuel filter and one of these adapters and submit them on a Form 1 as a suppressor? Or do I need all the crazy licenses to make (not repair) one for myself in the first place?
 
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S/n and trust info/makers info engraved on the adaptor and form 1 it..

Theo has forgotten more about this stuff then most of us know. Id trust his info to be accurate.
 
I'm doing my best to wrap my head around it. Almost seemed like he said two contradictory things there a few posts back but then I read over it a couple more times.
 
Silencers. Big, bulky, don't work very well, PITA regulations, too expensive and makes a well balanced compact handgun into a total chunk of junk. Seriously, what's the point? It's not like you can take your favorite 9mm handgun and throw tons of cheap rounds down range quietly by screwing on your $1000 silencer.

No, you have to spend big bucks on sub-sonic rounds which pretty much suck for any purpose other than playing with a silencer pretending it's "quiet".

IMHO, silencers are a big scam. If it was just money, I'd buy one for kicks and giggles. I just don't get the infatuation with silencers. If I were an Anti, I'd be gunning for a law that requires all handguns to be fitted with permanent silencers to make them utterly useless. And, you think that chamber indicator got in your way!!! End of rant.
 
Well for handguns they're not that cool but they do make things relatively easier on your hearing with or without subsonic rounds.

That and consider the fact that a 230gr .45 ACP is already subsonic and gives up nothing ballistically with a suppressor.

IraqVeteran8888 did a great YouTube video hog hunting with an AR chambered in .25-45 Sharps suppressed. At one point he shoots a hog out of a group that drops over and begins flopping. The other hogs look up for a second and then go back to burying their faces in the ground.

I can remember a time in Afghanistan when I was on a patrol and we had halted. Our DM, without telling me, decided to check his zero on his suppressed Mk12 SPR. All I recall hearing was a supersonic crack so I thought we had just been shot at. Had a little moment there and then we all laughed. Point is, the suppressor made the gun shot right next to me sound like a gun shot from afar.
 
Tucker 1371 said:
So it is as I understood it before: the adapter is the registered part. If the adapter breaks I'm doing the whole Form 1 runaround all over again. BUT if the fuel filter gets shot out all I have to do is take it to the appropriate establishment with the appropriate licenses and have them screw on a new fuel filter and slap on the serial number to match the adapter. No Xfer tax, stamp, etc. Correct? Just pay the business for their service and be on my merry way?
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Correct. The only thing I'm not 100% sure on is whether the ATF officially requires the oil filter to be serialized also, or whether it's just a suggestion and manufacturers do it to cover their rear-ends. (There are other things the ATF wants that aren't required and are just requests, like notifying them of any permanent changes to the configuration of your SBR.) Also, since the ATF doesn't require serial numbers on the removable part of modular cans like the Ti-Rant 45M or the Ghost 45M, I can't see an obvious legal difference between those and the oil filter on an oil filter silencer.

Maybe the reason the ATF wants a serial number on the oil filter is because that part can easily be illegally switched out by the user, whereas the end of a modular silencer can't be (and wouldn't need to be, anyway). But I'd like to find something where the ATF specifically discusses this issue.

Tucker 1371 said:
I'm doing my best to wrap my head around it. Almost seemed like he said two contradictory things there a few posts back but then I read over it a couple more times.
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Sometimes I'm not as clear as I could be. If there's anything you need clarification on, please let me know.
 
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Sharkbite said:
Theo has forgotten more about this stuff then most of us know. Id trust his info to be accurate.
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Thanks, man. Though I've definitely been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong many more times. As far as this issue is concerned, I do have one question on this that I brought up in my previous post.
 
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