They're terrorists, not "freedom fighters"

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dev_null

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Anyone still believe these scum are fighting the "US invasion," as opposed to attempting to destabilize the democratic process? This isn't about repelling the Coalition, it's about fighting for Wahabbist, extremist, lawless, bigoted, and violent Islam and against Moderate, democratic Islam. They want another Beirut, not another Egypt.



CNN:
Iraqi Interior Minister Baqir Jabbur said "terrorists" had killed 8,175 people (Iraqi civilians, police and troops) and wounded another 12,000 since January 2005.

According to the U.S. Department of Defense, there have been 307 U.S. fatalities in combat during the same period.


AP:
The vast majority of homicide attackers in Iraq are thought to be foreigners — mostly Saudis and other Gulf Arabs — and the trend has become more pronounced this year with North Africans also streaming in to carry out deadly missions, U.S. and Iraqi officials say.
 
Yea,lets choose side's in a religious war to promote American corporate expansion in a land thousands of years older than our own. And hopefully it will only cost a few trillion dollars and a few thousand of our soldiers. And for what? So Bagdad can have a Burger King?
 
70-101
Ding ding ding!
It IS a religious war, whether or not people want to admit it. Sorry to say, but there has been a portion of muslims who have been killing and fighting for a thousand years. It is what they do. Not all muslims, mind you, just some. We aren't going to be able to stop them from continuing, and it's foolish to think we can.
 
I don't think it's right that Islam get stigmatized by the actions of some warped individuals. We owe a lot to the Muslim world. In the middle ages, science was an important part of their religion. Without that, we would have lost most of what we know of the Greek philosophers. Without those Greek philosophers, we might not have the science and technology we have now.

I think we need to call a spade a spade. Murderers are murderers. People who incite others to murder are just as guilty. I don't like using words terrorist or freedom fighter. They tend to muddy the waters with ideological baggage. The Contras went almost exclusively after soft targets yet they were called freedom fighters. They were thugs just like Al Qaeda, the Pathet Lao, VC, etc.

A man should be known by his deeds, not his beliefs.

Jim
 
I agree with armed and liberal. By the way, it's not real hard to find a history of violence by Christian peoples in the name of their religion also.

To say that they do it because they're Muslims, and that's what Muslims do, is quite unjust and just plain wrong.

Bin Laden often improperly uses religious justification in his communications to attract followers and gain support. Some people fall for that. Only Muslims fall for that? Consider for instance the Crusades - how many were there? 10? I don't know, but a lot. The Spanish Inquisition? Conquest, slaughter and enslavery of Godless savages in Africa and in the Americas?

You may also be aware that the German leaders, in both World Wars, said to their people that we will prevail, because God is on our side. Well, they weren't talking about Allah when they said that. And the people fell for it.
 
> To say that they do it because they're Muslims, and that's what Muslims do, is quite unjust and just plain wrong.

Who here is saying that?
 
we can stay over there as long as it takes, and leave iraq with a democratic government,stability, and the capability to defend thier own country.



6 months later chaos will rule again. there has always been unrest in the middle east and there always will be.

no bush, it WASNT worth it. it wasnt worth a single American life.
 
It is intersting to note though that since we invaded Iraq, there hasn't been a single "terror" attack in the US.

Hmmmm.
 
Illegal Combatants

"...the law of war draws a distinction between the armed forces and the peaceful populations of belligerent nations and also between those who are lawful and unlawful combatants. Lawful combatants are subject to capture and detention as prisoners of war by opposing military forces. Unlawful combatants are likewise subject to capture and detention, but in addition they are subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals for acts which render their belligerency unlawful. The spy who secretly and without uniform passes the military lines of a belligerent in time of war, seeking to gather military information and communicate it to the enemy, or an enemy combatant who without uniform comes secretly through the lines for the purpose of waging war by destruction of life or property, are familiar examples of belligerents who are generally deemed not to be entitled to the status of prisoners of war, but to be offenders against the law of war subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals."
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Terrorists by defination then would be unlawful combatants under Geneva(under the 4th Convention, they must be treated "humanely", which is being done).

I do not believe though, that we should be releasing ANY of the folks captured until Iraq is stable, unless of course they have been tried under a military tribunal, and evidence shows they were not involved.

I don't ever recall us releasing German POWs during WW2 so they could return and fight us. :rolleyes:
 
We owe a the Muslim world. In the middle ages, science was an important part of their religion. Without that, we would have lost most of what we know of the Greek philosophers. Without those Greek philosophers, we might not have the science and technology we have now.
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Not really. Euopeans became reinterested in the Greek masters when the muslims threatened Constantinople in the 1200s. And the revolution the "scientific revolution" was that modern eupoeans came to the realization that the Greeks really didn't know that much about science (natural philosophy) or medicine.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc?
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Show me.
 
Destructo6: "Show me."

My "post hoc..." was in response to this, and was a question, not a firm statement.

> It is intersting to note though that since we invaded Iraq, there hasn't been a single "terror" attack in the US.
 
Some Greek thinkers

Well, the Greeks had (among others I am sure) the following who's who of immortal thinkers:

  • Euclid
  • Archimedes
  • Pythagorus
  • Hippocrates
  • Eratosthenes
  • Ptolemy
  • Aristotle
  • Plato
  • Socrates

Not bad for such a small country, in a time prior to the dark ages.
 
Mesopotamia

On the map below of ancient Mesopotamia (The Cradle of Civilization), I have marked the approximate location of Baghdad with two concentric green circles:

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Are there any Muslims on the board that can, objectively and without emotion, answer a question? I have never read the Koran, but I have heard it said that it calls for the killing of all infidels (non-Muslims). I have also heard it said that the Koran calls for gentleness and peace. Which is it? :confused:
 
Ptolemy the astronomer:
  • 1) geocentrism - wrong
    2) perfect circles - wrong
    3) crystaline spheres - wrong
Galen the physician:
  • 1) the 4 humors - wrong
    2) sanguinous fluid ebbs and flows like the tides - wrong (dang govt filters)
    3) the universe within and the universe without (ties with Ptolemy) - wrong
Like I said, the Greek natural philosophers were, with few exceptions, wrong.
My "post hoc..." was in response to this, and was a question, not a firm statement.
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I know, but it's hard to prove or disprove what has not happened and why it has not happened.
 
Remember 911? Oh ya let's stick our head in the sand and forget, maybe America will never be attached again...YA RIGHT!
 
Destructo6: In criticizing the ancient greeks, you completely ignore the context - it was about 2000 years ago!

To choose some other examples of idiots:

- Sigmund Freud, the giant, the father of modern psychology - most of his specifics are now considered obsolete - the field has moved on.

- Albert Einstein - the father of general relativity, with also big contributions in statistical mechanics, quantum mechanics, and astronomy. On his fundamental disagreements with Werner Heisenberg - completely wrong!

I think you lack a mature understanding of what the contributions of historical intellectuals are. It kind of annoys me that you practically mock these immortals - who are you? What contributions have you made to the world that last a decade, let alone 2000 years? We will see how many intellectuals regard your name with reverence, two millennia from today. In fact, one might ask, how many even know of your name today, let alone 2000 years from now when you are dust?
 
I have never read the Koran, but I have heard it said that it calls for the killing of all infidels (non-Muslims).
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Neither have I, but I've heard many muslims say that it does not call for the killing of infidels. I think it's much like anything else. The Koran is just words, which can be interpreted in a variety of ways depending on the predispositions of the reader.
 
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