There ought to be a law against it.

Gale McMillan

Member In Memoriam
Here is a little of what we are faced with. I thought you might be interesred

Civilian Sales of Military Sniper Rifles
Executive Summary

This is the executive summary of the May 1999 Violence Policy Center study One Shot, One Kill: Civilian Sales of Military Sniper Rifles. For information on how to order a hard copy of the full study, please return to the publications page.

For at least the last two decades, the firearms industry has introduced progressively more lethal weapons for sale in the United States. Today, another deadly innovation, perhaps more lethal than any of its predecessors, is gaining prominence in the civilian marketplace: the military sniper rifle. An extremely powerful weapon, the sniper rifle uses high-caliber ammunition at distances averaging between 400 and 1,700 yards.

The destructive power of a sniper rifle firing 50 caliber rounds is difficult to overstate. John L. Plaster, author of The Ultimate Sniper—a military and police training manual— offers the following description of 50 caliber performance: "Here's a bullet that even at 1½ miles crashes into a target with more energy than Dirty Harry's famous .44 Magnum at point-blank."

The sniper rifle is truly a military weapon, fielded by armies in conflicts around the world. In the 1991 Gulf War, United States armed forces used 50 caliber sniper rifles to destroy Iraqi light armored vehicles, missiles, and artillery. In the 1989 invasion of Panama, they were reportedly used to disable aircraft belonging to Manuel Noriega. Jane's International Defense Review, a military journal, concludes that "from an operational standpoint, the closest parallel weapon to a 0.50-calibre rifle is probably the 60mm mortar."

These same military armaments—designed and sold for the express purpose of killing people and disabling key command and control outposts—are now freely available across America's gun shop counters. As a result, this ideal tool for assassination and destruction is now easily accessible to terrorists, criminals, and the mentally unstable.

The marketing of sniper rifles illustrates a calculated decision by the gun industry to sell instruments of war—with reckless disregard for the inevitable consequences. Gun manufacturers use the sniper rifle's military pedigree and destructive potential as positive elements in their promotion of the weapon to civilian buyers. The makers of semiautomatic Barrett rifles enthusiastically advertise their product as "the most widely used .50 caliber by military organizations around the world...successfully used against a large variety of targets, often at staggering ranges."

Accompanying the marketing of sniper rifles has been a rapid proliferation of books and videos about snipers and sniping. Books with titles such as Stalk and Kill: The Sniper Experience and Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills compete with sniper videos promising: "The Marine Sniper must be able to hit a stationary target at 1000 yards with one round. Can you do it? Learn the secrets." This booming cult of the sniper centers itself around a firearm built and designed to fulfill the sniper's informal motto: "One shot, one kill."

This report documents the dangers posed by the civilian sale of military sniper rifles by—

Explaining what a sniper rifle is and illustrating its distinctly lethal and dangerous capabilities.

Exploring the gun industry's growing efforts to market sniper rifles to civilian gun buyers and the resultant subculture of sniper enthusiasts.

Discussing selected high-profile criminal instances where these weapons have been employed.

Proposing public policy responses to this serious threat to American national security.

Sniper rifles are radically different from standard hunting rifles. They are designed and manufactured for use in killing human beings at more than five times the range hunters shoot deer, and to destroy "materiel" targets such as light armored vehicles and aircraft at distances of more than a mile. The three characteristics and capabilities that combine to signify a sniper rifle are detailed below.

Accuracy: The sniper's goal is to hit his human target with a precision summed up in the phrase, "One shot, one kill." Police snipers need the capability to hit the junction of the brain and brain stem at extended distances. Hitting and destroying this point at the back of the human head with a single bullet causes the person to instantly and completely collapse without reflex. Snipers call this spot "the apricot."

Range: Sniper rifles can be used with great accuracy against targets at much longer distances than ordinary hunting or sporting rifles. The longest confirmed sniper kill of the Gulf War was reported to have been made by a Barrett Model 82A1 sniper rifle at a range of 1,800 meters—nearly 2,000 yards, or almost 10 times a deer hunter's maximum effective range. Numerous engagements with large, 50 caliber guns during the war took place at 1,600 meters (about 1,750 yards). From the West Front of the U.S. Capitol, this range would allow accurate firing as far as the Smithsonian Metro station on the Mall.

Power: The most destructive rounds fired by sniper rifles are 50 caliber—the largest round of ammunition generally available to civilians. The extraordinary power and range of the 50 caliber "heavies" create a whole new order of threat that is a source of concern for domestic law enforcement authorities. These rounds can knock down aircraft—including helicopters—and punch through concrete block, armored vehicles, and other standard materials relied upon for executive protection.

The accuracy, range, and power of a sniper rifle present a grave danger if used by a determined criminal or a deranged gunman, and a serious threat to national security in the hands of a terrorist. Yet, these very real hazards appear to be of no concern to the American firearms industry.

Robert Barrkman, president of .50 sniper rifle manufacturer Robar, revealed in a published interview that the proliferation of sniper weapons is one of the few growth areas that exist for small-arms makers. As a result, the gun industry has stimulated a demand for sniper rifles—with no conceivable sporting purpose—as part of its campaign to resell a saturated market.

Not surprisingly, the gun industry recognizes that words which evoke images of killing human beings, like "sniper," can attract criticism—and might even have the legal effect of triggering federal import restrictions. It therefore has invented euphemistic labels, such as "tactical rifle," which are well understood within the gun culture as "wink and nod" terms for true sniper rifles.

Yet the cultural context in which the gun industry sells sniper rifles often ignores such subterfuge. The sniper subculture glorifies the sniper fantasy, diminishes its human cost, and teaches everything about sniping—from equipment and shooting skills to military and police tactics. The civilian sniper culture is fed by the gun industry, nurtured by a fawning gun press, and disseminated through an array of commercial media enterprises including books, motion pictures, videos, video games, posters, tee shirts and, the world's fastest growing source of information, the Internet.

There is more than enough instructional material available in this sniper subculture to roil troubled minds and teach home-grown terrorists or impressionable juveniles how to use the destructive capabilities of sniper rifles to maximum effect. In particular, this subculture combines two dangerous currents—it has a mordant appeal for unstable personalities, and it offers an ideal environment for terrorism. The following three examples serve as evidence of the misuse of .50 sniper rifles. All three cases involved civilians who purchased the weapons in the United States.

Branch Davidians: David Koresh and his fellow Branch Davidians had several 50 caliber sniper rifles among the weapons in their substantial arsenal. During the 1993 siege at the Waco, Texas compound, FBI agents used armored vehicles to protect against the weapons. This decision was made after four Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents were killed in the initial assault.

Anti-Castro Operatives: In 1998, a federal grand jury indicted seven Cuban exiles on charges of plotting to murder Cuban President Fidel Castro with a .50 sniper rifle. The exiles planned to assassinate Castro during a meeting of Latin American heads of state at Isla Margarita, a Venezuelan island resort. The conspirators had previously scouted a hilltop vantage point overlooking the island's airport, from which they allegedly planned to shoot down Castro's airplane or shoot the Cuban leader as he exited the plane.

Irish Republican Army: In 1985, the IRA sent agents to the United States to acquire Barrett sniper rifles for long-range sniping attacks. Although several of the .50 Barretts were intercepted by authorities, an IRA sniper unit reportedly killed its first victim with one of the weapons in August of 1992. Eighteen-year-old Private Paul Turner was shot through his body armor as he stood at a checkpoint on the outskirts of Crossmaglen.

Gun industry excesses, as exemplified by the sniper rifle, can best be controlled by comprehensive regulation of the firearms industry—virtually the only industry now exempt from consumer health and safety laws. In the absence of overall regulation, the Violence Policy Center proposes the following strategy for dealing with the deadly consequences that are certain to follow this cynical gun industry marketing campaign.

Bring heavy and intermediate sniper rifles under the control of the National Firearms Act.

Evaluate an import ban on sniper rifles.

Improve reporting and record-keeping requirements.

Use the civil justice system to hold manufacturers accountable.

Ban the sale of armor-piercing ammunition.

The Violence Policy Center is a national non-profit educational foundation that conducts research on violence in America and works to develop violence-reduction policies and proposals. The Center examines the role of firearms in America, conducts research on firearms violence, and explores new ways to decrease firearm-related death and injury.

All contents © 1999 Violence Policy Center
 
The longest confirmed sniper kill of the Gulf War was reported to have been made by a Barrett Model 82A1 sniper rifle at a range of 1,800 meters—nearly 2,000 yards, or almost 10 times a deer hunter's maximum effective range.
ROTFLMAO! I routinely shoot and kill rabbits and ground squirrels with a .22 at 200+ yds. It says right on the ammo box that a .22 range is 2 miles. And I've taken deer (not routinely though, I've matured and choose a humane kill) at 400+ yds with a 30-06.

Gads, what blatant drivel and lies

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
As I was reading this, my first thought was "Can they just be a little more vague?", but then I remembered who the authors are. When you get to specifics with these people, one of two things usually happen. 1.) Their argument falls completely apart, or 2.) Their true intentions are exposed and the whole world gets to see just how radically anti-freedom they really are. Realistically, I have no use for a .50, but if I had the $$$ for it, there's no doubt that I'd have one. Even if just for the novelty of it. The VPC doesn't even have the sense to state wether they are just refering to the .50, or to it's lesser .30 siblings as well. I think I'd be much more afraid of some wisened old deer hunter with his old, beat-up 700 than some looney terrorist with a Barrett. Unless, of course, Skip Talbot goes off the deep end. Then I'd worry.
 
I can see the law now.

No weapon for sale to civilians will be built with inherant accurracy to hit a human size target at at a distance of 200 yards.

No weapon for sale to civilians shall be capable of firing a round that can penetrating light military armour at any range.

All weapons now capable of these things is unlawful for civilians to own, or possess.

Gee, turn them in guys! After all we can't have mere Citizens capable of standing up to the most powerful army on the face of the Earth.

Like what happened at Lexington, or Concord, or Yorktown, or Breeds Hill.......
 
Well guys,

here is another example of the mis-informed telling the masses how to think. Just like Christopher, I have no need for a .50, but I can't see ethically telling anyone else they can't legally own one.

Also, what got me was the claim that the .50 has the destructie power liken to a 60mm mortar round. It has ben while, but I don't ever remember a .50 with explosive warhead or that can deliever Willie Peter. And as far as punching through concrete block, I can do that with my 30.06...Uh oh! Does that mean my Garand, Winchester 70 and Remington 700 are weapons of mass destruction? Do the rifles with scopes classify as an intermediate sniper rifle?

This "report" made me ill. Nothing agrevates me more than the presenting of OPINION as fact. Just more ways to confuse the already screwed up masses.

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Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizona territory
 
This is the perfect weapon for civilians!

What better than a large calibre gun that can take out a target at 1000 yrds, punch holes in armor plating and deliver explosive rounds, to keep an abusive government at bay.

My, but our fore-fathers were prophetic!

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited October 27, 1999).]
 
Interesting that these guys never point out that the .50 was a civilian developed round, created by precision shooters and adopted by the military for such nefarious deeds as killing bad guys.
Rich
 
This is probably "topic creep" but with all of the "stuff"(I refuse to say sxxx)on TFL)out there working against RKBA does anyone still wonder why we need nothing but Pro-RKBA politicians?

And consider this, If we dont gain political superiority in 2000 we are goung to have to move to the South Pole or something.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
I think the keywords in this whole statement are "Bring heavy and intermediate sniper rifles under the control of the National Firearms Act."

And so what is an intermediate sniper rifle. Something that can kill out to 1000 yards?

Hmmm... You think the government can stop illegal gun imports any better than the tons of heroin, cocaine and pot that flow into the country. You think a terrorist can't just buy the raw material and make what he wants. Timothy McVie (sp?) certainly didn't need a sniper rifle. And I don't think those kids down in GA (?) needed a book to tell them to pull the fire alarm so that all the kids would exit the school into their kill zone.

Next thing you know... oh, poor Johnny might hurt himself thinking on his own as he does, we better encase the poor kid in a plastic dome so only correct ideas can enter his head.

Sorry I guess I need to be re-educated.

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Peace through superior firepower...
Keith

If the 2nd is antiquated, what will happen to the rest.
"the right to keep and bear arms."



[This message has been edited by KAM_Indianapolis (edited October 28, 1999).]
 
There are so many holes in the propaganda that I just read, I will ask about only some; What is a "high calibre"? 60MM Mortar what hapended to 20mm Cannon? When these alleged missles where being destroyed were they in flight or on ground? (since the "BAD 50 CAN TRACK AND DESTROY GEOSYNCRONOUS ORBIT SATILITES")

Maybe space shuttle challenger was shot down by armchair sniper with barrett? ( " So ya seen any combat...........I've seen a little on..........TV"


To think those dumb engineers put that big 120mm gun on the ABRAMS when all they needed was the ma deuce.

Maybe if we compared the self propelled 155mm howitzer to the 50 they would see how small it is compared to modern day weapons.

They're all fascists. Hitler may be dead but he has many followers here in the states.

I gotta go take a shower after reading that I feel a little unclean.

Give us a little warning next time Gale and I will cover one eye when I read so as to not damage it, ya know since we are all snipers we need that eye.



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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON

Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. We're after power and we mean it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breakings laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.

A RAND
 
Yeah, I love their 3 "examples" that prove the dangers of having .50 sniper rifles:

1) Oooooh. The Davidians had .50 cal rifles. So, they burned their houses down, and the FBI shot them with "intermediate" .308 cal sniper rifles. As far as I know, there's no evidence the Davidians ever used the .50's they had. But at least this one happened in this country...

2) Cuban exiles tried to assassinate Castro? I'm so stunned! Well, I guess since our gov't failed in it's attempts, I guess they have to try something.

3) The Irish Republican Army wants to kill British soldiers? Wow, what a news flash. How do they keep so up to date? I wonder what the Brits did in retaliation...

And why can't they come up with one example of them being used in this country? Because it hasn't happened, that's why.

There's several things they don't mention. Like the origin of these "sniper" rifles, the size/weight of the rifle & ammo (how many rounds can you carry with that big rifle?), the cost of the rifle, the cost of the ammo, the fact that you can't practice with one without half the county hearing it, etc.

But the main things I think they left out are:

1) the ranges they're talking about are pretty ludicrous - they're aren't a lot of places you could actually see 1,000+ yards that aren't in the desert, or somewhere similar. I'd like to the guy that could lug a Barrett and 100 rounds of ammo up 50 flights of stairs. A good .308 can reach about as far as you can see in a populated area.

2) No matter how capable the rifle is, there aren't a lot of shooters who can hit what there aiming at past 500 or so yards. You don't pick up the skill set that extreme long range shooting requires playing video games, reading magazines, or watching instructional videos. It takes practice, practice, practice and considerable time and money.

More civilians have been killed by air bags than .50 cal. "sniper" rifles.
 
Based on the examples given, it's obvious that we need to ban centerfire rifles to make the world safe for renegade federal agents, communist dictators and armies of occupation.
;)
 
This decision was made after four Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents were killed in the initial assault.

i thought they were all shot with 9mm rounds fired from BATF HKs...
;)

dZ
 
On another one of these threads, someone recalled an incident in which one was actually used in a crime a few years ago- a deranged man murdered shot a policeman in his patrol car. Of course, he could have killed him just as easily with a smaller-caliber rifle. I'm suprised the VPC didn't find this story.
 
What the Hell, I'll jump in too.

What I really loved was the way they used the .50 and other rifles interchangeably. Notice how in one paragraph, they were talking about the .50 Barrett and said that police need the "accuracy of a sniper rifle" to hit the brainstem? Do the cops in YOUR town use Barretts? Neither do mine, which means next they'll be after the stuff the cops DO use. Remember, only cops need more than ten handgun rounds, only cops need batons, and only cops need accurate rifles. In mortal hands these objects are just too bloodthirsty.

Also, notice the way they slip in the word "selected" when talking about their examples of the "misuse" of .50s--implying that there were several examples from which to choose, when in fact they were so desperate that they counted the assassination of Castro by his own people as "criminal." Bulls***, plain and simple.

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
Gwinny...

they counted the assassination of Castro by his own people as "criminal."
By extension, it also seems to me that they are implying that citizens of a particular gov't body don't have the right to determine if their entrenched leader is a tyrant, oppressive and needs to be removed....that it must only be the purview of other gov'ts and citizens of other countries. Welcome to the feedlot, folks

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
How long will it be before Joe Hunter figures out his Remington with a 4x scope is a "sniper rifle" that they want to ban?

When the cops need Barretts, I'm leaving the country. See you in Switzerland...



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Beginner barbarians probably had the idea that every house they broke into would be full of untouched loot and frightened, unarmed victims. It just doesn't work that way, my friend.

I hope these evil men come to understand our peaceful ways soon - My trigger finger is blistering!
 
oberkommando

A bit of a tangent here, but which of Ayn Rand's book are you quoting from? It's been a while since I've read those 50 caliber assault books.

Jack
 
Jack, I can answer that one for you. That quote is from "Atlas Shrugged". A most prescient volume if there ever was one.
 
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