Glenn E. Meyer
New member
The classic discussion of my tivo thinks I'm gay or a Nazi
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/archive/index.php/t-287253.html
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/archive/index.php/t-287253.html
The World Wars on the History Channel
- Thread starter chrisp51
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Yeah....
I'm not even going to open that thread.
I'm not even going to open that thread.
I watched the first episode, last night. It wasn't as bad as I'd feared, after reading through this thread.
What I noticed was not so much that the weaponry was wrong, as it was inconsistent. There was a scene where a U.S. soldier takes aim at a Hun with an '03 Springfield, fires a shot, then when the camera pans back along the rifle, it's turned into a left-handed M1917 "Enfield"!
There also were scenes, supposedly taking place in 1915 or 1916, showing "British" troops with U.S. cartridge belts, firing '03s at the SMLE-armed Germans.
Showing Hitler reach for a fresh magazine for his SMLE was sort of weird, since it's my understanding that even though the magazines are removeable, loaded mags were not maintained the way you would for a modern rifle, and SMLEs were reloaded with stripper clips, like just about everything else of the period.
It does appear to be a show for the masses, rather than the classes.
The parts of the show that did make me wince, were the massive tank assaults that appeared to involve a single M3, when they had a least a dozen computer-generated Renault tanks available.
OK, Patton's cap gun was sort of weak.
What I noticed was not so much that the weaponry was wrong, as it was inconsistent. There was a scene where a U.S. soldier takes aim at a Hun with an '03 Springfield, fires a shot, then when the camera pans back along the rifle, it's turned into a left-handed M1917 "Enfield"!
There also were scenes, supposedly taking place in 1915 or 1916, showing "British" troops with U.S. cartridge belts, firing '03s at the SMLE-armed Germans.
Showing Hitler reach for a fresh magazine for his SMLE was sort of weird, since it's my understanding that even though the magazines are removeable, loaded mags were not maintained the way you would for a modern rifle, and SMLEs were reloaded with stripper clips, like just about everything else of the period.
It does appear to be a show for the masses, rather than the classes.
The parts of the show that did make me wince, were the massive tank assaults that appeared to involve a single M3, when they had a least a dozen computer-generated Renault tanks available.
OK, Patton's cap gun was sort of weak.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Showing Hitler reach for a fresh magazine for his SMLE was sort of weird, since it's my understanding that even though the magazines are removeable, loaded mags were not maintained the way you would for a modern rifle, and SMLEs were reloaded with stripper clips, like just about everything else of the period."
Forgot about that!
You are correct. Troops were not issued multiple magazines. They had the one in the gun.
It was only to be removed for cleaning or to be replaced in the event it was damaged.
Another one I forgot about was the depiction of Japanese troops fighting in China in the middle 1930s.
They were all armed with....
Submachine guns.
No.
The Japanese didn't even field a submachine gun until 1942, and then in only limited numbers.
I'm trying to figure out how to submit directed criticism on the show to the History Channel, but they don't make it easy at all.
Forgot about that!
You are correct. Troops were not issued multiple magazines. They had the one in the gun.
It was only to be removed for cleaning or to be replaced in the event it was damaged.
Another one I forgot about was the depiction of Japanese troops fighting in China in the middle 1930s.
They were all armed with....
Submachine guns.
No.
The Japanese didn't even field a submachine gun until 1942, and then in only limited numbers.
I'm trying to figure out how to submit directed criticism on the show to the History Channel, but they don't make it easy at all.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Well isn't that special. ..
I agree. D-Day in HD was a much better effort than the world wars. I think I actually saw some footage I had never seen before. They still show that famous shot of those guys being cut down at the water edge on Omaha beach. I bet I have seen that guy get shot a 1000 times. I feel bad everytime I see it. I wish they could identify that guy.
The D Day landings are one of the most incredible things that ever happened. Not just because of the scale, but also because it actually worked. No amount of praise and respect for the men who went through it is enough.
Although one can go over the top claiming D-Day alone ended Hitler's Reich, as some have inferred. It did take a bit more than that.
In one book I read, by a German survivor, he told how, when he saw the Americans coming off the landing craft, many being cut down, and rest still coming on, he knew then, the war was lost. Because, as he put it, "you could not get Germans to do that..."
Another account I came across, (also written by a German) told of how he realized the war was lost even earlier, in North Africa. They had overrun a US HQ, and found the mail. The found a chocolate cake in a box addressed to a private (birthday cake), and it was still fresh enough to eat and enjoy (which they did).
The officer said he knew then Germany could not win. Clearly, the US had the resources to get a cake to a mere private, on the front lines, while it was still fresh. "Germany could not do this, I knew then we would not win".
We look back on it today, and seldom think any other outcome other than Allied Victory was impossible, but back then, the issue was very much in doubt. After D Day succeeded, it became more a matter of "when" rather than "if"...
Although one can go over the top claiming D-Day alone ended Hitler's Reich, as some have inferred. It did take a bit more than that.
In one book I read, by a German survivor, he told how, when he saw the Americans coming off the landing craft, many being cut down, and rest still coming on, he knew then, the war was lost. Because, as he put it, "you could not get Germans to do that..."
Another account I came across, (also written by a German) told of how he realized the war was lost even earlier, in North Africa. They had overrun a US HQ, and found the mail. The found a chocolate cake in a box addressed to a private (birthday cake), and it was still fresh enough to eat and enjoy (which they did).
The officer said he knew then Germany could not win. Clearly, the US had the resources to get a cake to a mere private, on the front lines, while it was still fresh. "Germany could not do this, I knew then we would not win".
We look back on it today, and seldom think any other outcome other than Allied Victory was impossible, but back then, the issue was very much in doubt. After D Day succeeded, it became more a matter of "when" rather than "if"...
A recreation of that scene was worked into the movie Battle of the Bulge. The Germans were desperate for enough fuel to reach . . . some important French city, and the exasperated German commander commented, on discovering the cake, "The Americans have enough fuel to fly cake across the Atlantic!".
Mike Irwin
Staff
"The Americans have enough fuel to fly cake across the Atlantic!"
And we did, too.
I'm pretty sure that the United States was the only combatant that was completely fuel independent, producing more than we needed from our internal resources.
The Soviet Union would have been, too, had the Germans not overrun the oil fields in the Caucuses.
And we did, too.
I'm pretty sure that the United States was the only combatant that was completely fuel independent, producing more than we needed from our internal resources.
The Soviet Union would have been, too, had the Germans not overrun the oil fields in the Caucuses.
I like the books of an author that writes them under the name of W.E.B. Griffin.
He has written several WWII books and mentions several times that the purpose of gas rationing in WWII was to conserve rubber...that is tires...the U.S. had gasoline but was short on rubber to make tires.
He has written several WWII books and mentions several times that the purpose of gas rationing in WWII was to conserve rubber...that is tires...the U.S. had gasoline but was short on rubber to make tires.
Towards the end of the war, the Germans were so desparate for aviation fuel that they started getting really good at creating gas from other stuff. Coal gassification was a good one. The most odd that I heard of was gas from pine cones. They sent the school children out in the forest gathering pine cones which can be heated to extract a fairly decent substitute for avgas.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"They sent the school children out in the forest gathering pine cones which can be heated to extract a fairly decent substitute for avgas."
Made the battlefield smell nice, too.
"He has written several WWII books and mentions several times that the purpose of gas rationing in WWII was to conserve rubber...that is tires...the U.S. had gasoline but was short on rubber to make tires."
That's pretty much the truth of it. We had tremendous surplus refining capability for gasoline.
What we didn't have was rubber. The Japanese had overrun the majority of the world's rubber supplies, and synthetic rubber, while known, was still in its infancy and there wasn't a lot of production in the United States when the war began.
On a related note, war bonds...
War bonds were pitched as a way of helping pay for the war. It's true that they did.
But their primary role was to take surplus money out of the American economy as a means of preventing superinflation.
Made the battlefield smell nice, too.
"He has written several WWII books and mentions several times that the purpose of gas rationing in WWII was to conserve rubber...that is tires...the U.S. had gasoline but was short on rubber to make tires."
That's pretty much the truth of it. We had tremendous surplus refining capability for gasoline.
What we didn't have was rubber. The Japanese had overrun the majority of the world's rubber supplies, and synthetic rubber, while known, was still in its infancy and there wasn't a lot of production in the United States when the war began.
On a related note, war bonds...
War bonds were pitched as a way of helping pay for the war. It's true that they did.
But their primary role was to take surplus money out of the American economy as a means of preventing superinflation.
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We also had meat rationing, scrap metal drives and wage and price controls.
one of the side effects of wage controls was that, to get, or keep workers (from the shrinking pool of those available) companies could not offer more money, but they could offer benefits.
Company supplied or supported health care/health insurance wasn't unknown before WWII, but it wasn't common. After WWII, it came to be an expected benefit. Today many think its a right. Personally, I disagree, but that's just me..
During WWII, America was at war. Our entire nation, to a greater or lesser degree shifted to a wartime economy. IN all our wars since, that has not happened. One more factor that has brought us to where we are today.
one of the side effects of wage controls was that, to get, or keep workers (from the shrinking pool of those available) companies could not offer more money, but they could offer benefits.
Company supplied or supported health care/health insurance wasn't unknown before WWII, but it wasn't common. After WWII, it came to be an expected benefit. Today many think its a right. Personally, I disagree, but that's just me..
During WWII, America was at war. Our entire nation, to a greater or lesser degree shifted to a wartime economy. IN all our wars since, that has not happened. One more factor that has brought us to where we are today.
One of the great things that happened during the war (and was subsequently lost after the war) was that in order to get women into the workforce the government set up a system of free/subsidized daycare.
If you really want to get low socio-economic families off of welfare and back to work, one of the things we have to do is to make it to where people don't have to spend their entire paychecks to watch their kids while they work. In WWII, it cost the government relatively little but paid big dividends in getting more women into the workforce.
If you really want to get low socio-economic families off of welfare and back to work, one of the things we have to do is to make it to where people don't have to spend their entire paychecks to watch their kids while they work. In WWII, it cost the government relatively little but paid big dividends in getting more women into the workforce.
Bucksnort1
New member
World Wars
You have hit a major sore spot with me. For those of us who know something about WWII, we watch these docs with an eye a bit more critical than most.
I hate WWII reenactment type documentaries. As you said, there are major discrepancies with equipment, weapons and the wearing of the uniform. I don't usually watch them. I saw a reenacted WWII doc and noticed an infantry soldier wearing the Combat Infantryman's Badge over his right breast pocket; it's worn over the left pocket.
A movie I refuse to watch ever again is, "Where Eagles Dare". In case you didn't know, we didn't use any helicopters in the European Theatre of Operations and we surely didn't use the Bell "Whirlybird" (the one with the bubble canopy - M.A.S.H. helicopters), which didn't come on line until after WWII. If you notice in the first scene of the movie, Clint Eastwood and Richard Burton were dropped behind German lines in a Whirlybird chopper.
In the movie, Tora, Tora, Tora, there is a scene where the camera is watching what is supposed to be a B-17 fly away. It is a rear distance shot. If you are familiar with the C-130 and its rear boxy profile, that is what they used in this scene.
Now, see what you started.
You have hit a major sore spot with me. For those of us who know something about WWII, we watch these docs with an eye a bit more critical than most.
I hate WWII reenactment type documentaries. As you said, there are major discrepancies with equipment, weapons and the wearing of the uniform. I don't usually watch them. I saw a reenacted WWII doc and noticed an infantry soldier wearing the Combat Infantryman's Badge over his right breast pocket; it's worn over the left pocket.
A movie I refuse to watch ever again is, "Where Eagles Dare". In case you didn't know, we didn't use any helicopters in the European Theatre of Operations and we surely didn't use the Bell "Whirlybird" (the one with the bubble canopy - M.A.S.H. helicopters), which didn't come on line until after WWII. If you notice in the first scene of the movie, Clint Eastwood and Richard Burton were dropped behind German lines in a Whirlybird chopper.
In the movie, Tora, Tora, Tora, there is a scene where the camera is watching what is supposed to be a B-17 fly away. It is a rear distance shot. If you are familiar with the C-130 and its rear boxy profile, that is what they used in this scene.
Now, see what you started.
The Aircraft Were Wrong Too
Nobody has mentioned the American B-17s bombing London, or the footage of the P-51 Mustangs in the Battle of Britain.
There was also footage of jet fighters getting ready for the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Not to mention the paratroopers jumping out of C-130s.
Nobody has mentioned the American B-17s bombing London, or the footage of the P-51 Mustangs in the Battle of Britain.
There was also footage of jet fighters getting ready for the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Not to mention the paratroopers jumping out of C-130s.
"I like the books of an author that writes them under the name of W.E.B. Griffin.
He has written several WWII books and mentions several times that the purpose of gas rationing in WWII was to conserve rubber...that is tires...the U.S. had gasoline but was short on rubber to make tires. "
His older stuff is great, and well researched. Just don't bother to buy anything he wrote in the last 5 years or so.
He has written several WWII books and mentions several times that the purpose of gas rationing in WWII was to conserve rubber...that is tires...the U.S. had gasoline but was short on rubber to make tires. "
His older stuff is great, and well researched. Just don't bother to buy anything he wrote in the last 5 years or so.