The Welfare State Mentality....

Redworm said:
I may be a little upset with the baby boomer generation
Click to expand...

You should be grateful that history turned out like it did.

You must remember, boomers spent wealth, started to save late in their lives and paid into Social Security their entire lives.

Now imagine if history went the other way.

Many people believe that it's better to invest your own money. Fair enough. Assume that in the late 1950's and early 1960's that boomers began to invest money from the first jobs they had cutting lawns. Further assume that they now stopped working, retiring from jobs of six figures.

All of the money the government now has (or spent replacing real wealth with IOU's) would never have been collected.

Imagine if all/most of the money was squirreled away in private investments like stocks, bond or precious metals and never pumped into the economy. Imagine if these deferred investments now dramatically lowered the amount of overall taxes the government could assess. And now imagine the boomers retiring--virtually taking 1/3 of American wealth and running.

In that scenario you'd be calling us petulant, selfish, materialistic and crooked.

In fact, you're lucky we existed.
 
Allow me to clarify. I'm not upset with the baby boomer generation for anything related to social security. That was a decision your parents made. There are many other things the baby boomers - hippies and bible thumpers alike - did that I feel were mistakes but in that sentence I wasn't referring to this specific issue.


edit: but one thing to consider, all that money that the government has now would have no been there...maybe we wouldn't have wasted so much of it in the first place?
 
Redworm said:
maybe we wouldn't have wasted so much of it in the first place?
Click to expand...

The idea of perception is one that always tickles me.

If my wife buys something, even her time-share in Vegas, she classifies that expense as an "investment." When I buy something, it's a "toy." I constantly remind her that guns, knives and Harleys are worth more now, even more than the 401(K) she had a few years ago that lost 40%...

The period you refer to as a potential waste is the bulk of my life. What part exactly is waste? Would it be the Interstate Highway system that lowered the cost of perishable food, or perhaps the SAC airforce bases that kept communisn at bay?

Would it be better rifles, armor, missiles and jets that kept my era safer in Vietnam after the French bungled it big-time? Or might it be a systematic, national water system that augmented our fight on polio?

Yikes, what has the newer generations done? Pee-Wee Herman, iPods, plastic cars and rap music? I'll bet my Social Security would be a lot better if we just eliminated that.
 
I posit this; that no man has the RIGHT to the product of another man's labor.

I do not exist for the benefit of others. When you assumedecide that an individual or group has an inherent right to the fruits of another's labor you have decided that that one is a slave.
 
JuanCarlos, actually what G-Cym is saying is that the government confiscated money from an entire generation and misused it. The United States Government owes money to every individual who has paid into social (in)security but that in no way obligates a single individual to pay a debt that the GOVERNMENT has racked up. The government owes the retirees..not G-Cym..or me.

That's like saying that Peter stole from Paul but it's Mary's obligation to repay Peter's debt. NOT!

My wife just made a good comment..her thought was that continuing the system may be taking care of the current batch of retirees but it's most definitely "frakking" with our future.
 
JuanCarlos, actually what G-Cym is saying is that the government confiscated money from an entire generation and misused it. The United States Government owes money to every individual who has paid into social (in)security but that in not way obligates a single individual to pay a debt that the GOVERNMENT has racked up. The government owes the retirees..not G-Cym..or me.

That's like saying that Peter stole from Paul but it's Mary's obligation to repay Peter's debt. NOT!
Click to expand...

So where exactly are you suggesting that the government get this huge sum of money, if not from taxes? Start selling Mary Kay?

EDIT: I wonder how much a pawn shop would give for the Statue of Liberty....
 
I would add this. If a government representative (or corporation in a sweetheart deal *cough* Halliburton *cough*) can be successfully adjudicated in profiteering, then the money should be recovered.

Hold your local rep's feet to the fire.
 
You don't want to hear the truth..that it's not my problem. That the government racked up a debt and I am not obligated to pay that debt.

But that is the only honest answer. No person is responsible for the debts of another unless they voluntarily take on that debt.

Again, to say differently relegates "Mary" to the status of a slave as she is now forced to work for Paul..
 
You don't want to hear the truth..that it's not my problem. That the government racked up a debt and I am not obligated to pay that debt.
Click to expand...

The again, I ask, who is?

The unfortunate truth (for both you and I) is that we are. Because we're the ones that fund (and select) the government. Live with it.

Alternately, you're free to skip out on that debt if you choose...leave. Emigrate to another country of your choosing; I'm pretty sure the IRS won't collect your portion of the debt at the door.

By continuing to stay here (which is voluntary) and continuing to benefit from the government in various ways (which is impossible to avoid, if you choose to stay here), you're voluntarily taking on any debts the government incurs. Or owes.

But that is the only honest answer. No person is responsible for the debts of another unless they voluntarily take on that debt.
Click to expand...

Newsflash: the government is not a person.
 
Justme, do you understand the relationship between goods, services, and money?


Juan, you claim we are responsible for past debts by other people for other people. Even if that were the case, is the solution to keep racking up more current debt? Inability to pay SS from the past is not a reason to keep the SS system going now. All that does is make sure in 30 years there is still a mountain of debt. And I don' really like the idea of taxing my children and grandchildren to death to pay for a bloated government.

Honestly the only service we really need the government for is military. Everything else, roads, water, gas, hospitals, mail, etc, can be taken care of by private business. And at a fraction of the cost, with a better product. The government has no incentive to give us top quality products. They can take our money no matter what. A business has to compete for our money though. They have a desire to give us what we want, because they know if they don't someone else will.


If you really think the government can run everything better and has the will of the people in mind better, just move to Europe or Canada. Give 80% of your money to their government is tazes and get as many "free" government programs as you can desire. Here in America, capitalism and free market reign. I'll spend my money on goods and services that I want.
 
My wife just made a good comment..her thought was that continuing the system may be taking care of the current batch of retirees but it's most definitely "frakking" with our future.
Click to expand...
Which certainly needs to be fixed...however I think we, as a society, are smart enough to pull that off with a transitional phase that doesn't screw over people that already paid into it.

Like it or not that "government" that owes the debt is our responsibility. If we're going to say that government exists to serve the will of the people, that the government is supposed to be subservient to us, then we need to accept responsibility for that government's actions. :o

I want to keep my money, too. But let's be reasonable people and not screw people over in the name of financial freedom.
 
Yikes, what has the newer generations done?
You're posting on it.
Click to expand...

lol. Good one :)

I just got LASIK last week. No more glasses or contacts for me. Chalk another one up to the newer generations.
 
Everything else, roads, water, gas, hospitals, mail, etc, can be taken care of by private business.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. :o Sometimes it takes the money that only a government can muster to accomplish something.

See: Apollo 11.
 
actually LASIK was pioneered by the baby boomers :p

and while the internet - in concept - was created by them it took generation X to make it profitable and thus available to so many more people :D

then again I blame us for Vanilla Ice. there's just no excuse for that
 
See Northrup Gruman. See North American. See Lockheed Martin. And now we have Spaceship 1. The first entirely commercial privates spacecraft.
 
See Northrup Gruman. See North American. See Lockheed Martin. And now we have Spaceship 1. The first entirely commercial privates spacecraft.
Click to expand...
Northrop, North America and Lockheed didn't do that on their own. They're government contractors. Spaceship 1 is a grand idea but it's still decades behind what NASA has accomplished.

And personally I wouldn't want a privately owned interstate highway system. :p
 
Redworm, by "not screwing people over in the name of financial freedom" we are effectively screwing ourselves.

As there is no higher law than that of self preservation..I say if it comes down to a retiree or my family and I, WE take priority.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top