The Welfare State Mentality....

Another good reason to have a gun--to shoot yourself when you are old, sick, and/or severely disabled and have no one to take care of you--'cause the government sure won't, not that I expect it to. A sad fact of life is no one gets out of it alive, but prolonged misery and suffering should at least be optional.


EDIT YOUR POST AND REMOVE THAT NONSENSE NOW! It is not neessary to post stuff like that.
 
But don't blame the retired folks for using the benefit they were forced to pay into for years and years
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Never did such a thing.
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Really?

Recently, the business had a flu shot day open to the public. Over 200 people showed up. I would say 90% of them used either medicare or medicaid. I believe that the shot costed somewhere about $20 if they paid for it with cash. Most of these people flashed their government issued health insurance cards with pride. I don't think governemnt dependancy is anything to be proud of. Obviosly, many do. I don't understand it. People are so petty. They want to put items that cost $5 or $10 on their government issued insurance cards.
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Everybody who works pays into Medicare. Like I said, I think I was even forced to pay into it during my deployment, when my income was 100% exempt from both federal and state income taxes.
 
No blaming of anybody being done there. I was simply commenting on the level of dependancy that exists.

Simply put, I used that an example while in the process of commenting on the entitlement mentality.

This origional post is just MY OPINION... nothing more. I am not claiming to be an authority on this topic. It's just an opinion....

As Michael Savage says, 'this is only one mans opinion.. agree with me.. disagree with me.. I don't care'.
 
No blaming of anybody being done there. I was simply commenting on the level of dependancy that exists.

Simply put, I used that an example while in the process of commenting on the entitlement mentality.
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Calling somebody "petty" for taking advantage of a system they've paid into and qualify seems a lot like blaming them to me. Close enough that I wouldn't want to see the two get married, to be sure.

And yes, it is just your opinion...so what? I'm taking exception with your opinion. If you actually don't care, feel free to not defend it.

You can bet when I qualify for them, if they're still around, I'll have the exact same sense of entitlement to Medicare and Social Security. I've been paying into those programs since I was fifteen years old. Again, I see zero problem with this, and I'll tell you exactly where you can shove what if you call me "petty" for doing so.
 
Another good reason to have a gun--to shoot yourself when you are old, sick, and/or severely disabled and have no one to take care of you--'cause the government sure won't, not that I expect it to. A sad fact of life is no one gets out of it alive, but prolonged misery and suffering should at least be optional.
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Yeah, I come from a culture where taking care of one's elders is pretty much ingrained into our psyche. I intend to treat my family with enough respect and caring that I'll never see the inside of a nursing home. :p
 
Juan, I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine... we disagree. I have ready many of your posts on other threads and it's safe to say that you and I agree probably 70% to 80% of the time.

I am not looking to have a pissing match with you. I don't really care if you take issue with my opinion. The purpose of this thread is to discuss and debate the issues.

As far as you using the system when the time comes... by all means, go right ahead... nobody is stopping you. Enjoy the rest of your evening.
 
Didn't GW say in 1999 that he was going to privatize Social Security or at least a portion of it? This is why I think the Republican's need another Newt G. The problem of course lies in the government.

They took money from you for an insurance program you didn't want or need. They spent the money elsewhere and figured they would just tax your kids.

I think my investments would have turned my SS contributions thus far into an enormous sum of money. Investing isn't difficult but there is a "tuition" to that school and that's the money you lose when you first start and are learning how to do it. Those losses are best covered when you are young. Of course- you don't have to be highly educated, but the last I checked, schools (also run by the Government) weren't doing a smash bang job of teaching kids to function as independent citizens who can care for themselves.

In fact, I am outright shocked at how ignorant of true independence most kids are coming out of high school. I see and work with many here. There is a defacto assumption that the Government will take care of them and most of the ones I know went to decent schools and come from middle class or better backgrounds.

No- it will never end until the taxes become so burdensome that there is a political revolt and those paying the taxes decide to call an end to it and vote the losers out of office. That is a long way off, but knowing that it will likely happen in about 30 years when I am eligible to draw SS, I am saving my own and investing agressively so that I can cover my own needs.

Being the pessimist I am however, I would bet that somewhere before that time, some government policy will be inacted to take all my savings and returns from investments from me after being scorned as a member of the lowest class in the country: "The Rich". Nobody likes the rich. Especially the deadbeats who will never put forth the minimal effort it takes in this country to get there. Face it: Sloths rule this nation.
 
Oh, and another thing I learned from Rush Limbaugh. You are not required to only pay the taxes due. You can send the government as much money as you wish.

Rush Limbaugh... one hell of an authority on this issue.:rolleyes::D:D:D


While I do enjoy listening to him once in a while... he is incredibly full of himself. He has to be taken with a grain of salt... as do most talk radio hosts.
 
Social Security is a badly architected system developed in an era when some silly ideas hadn't been fully thought through yet. The 401k/IRA are what Social Security should have been. The next 50-75 years will transition us from old-style Social Security to an investment-based system.


Will people who are young today get the shaft? Well, yeah, in the sense that you won't get your money back from Social Security unless you're poor in your old age (I assume there'll be means testing). But, I'd rather have a big 401k/IRA than be broke and getting paid by Social Security.


Anyway, getting old after the Baby Boomers die will be such a huge advantage that it'll more than make up for the fact that you paid the payroll tax your whole life. The medical advances that the Boomers will drive will make your old age much better than theirs.
 
Another good reason to have a gun--to shoot yourself when you are old, sick, and/or severely disabled and have no one to take care of you--'cause the government sure won't, not that I expect it to. A sad fact of life is no one gets out of it alive, but prolonged misery and suffering should at least be optional.
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That is the sickest load of CRAP I have ever seen posted here. Just remember that when you get old! (place expletive name here)!!!
 
Calling somebody "petty" for taking advantage of a system they've paid into and qualify seems a lot like blaming them to me.
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I personally know of a small businesses that KNEW they had a fraudulent person working. A person working for the company and receiving disability for injury that had applied under another name and was working and receiving unemployment from yet another name. This company reported the fraud, but no response for years. They feared being sued for a termination regardless that the same person had worked under several names for them, a small company. The person was finally terminated from benefits, but no recovery, after being caught walking into the hospital twirling the walking cane and then becoming an invalid under the doctor examination. He was working, receiving disability and unenployment benefits, all at the same time. I was told that this is very common by the company officer. They don't usually get response, so they quit reporting these things.
 
Is it time for a Declaration of Dependence? :rolleyes:

I wonder who was responsible for a persons retirement in 1807? I wonder how many retired in those days. Who were those that could retire? Why is it that people think there is an entitlement to retirement? Where is it written that one mans retirement is another mans responsibility? Having learned that we can write ourselves checks from the confiscation processes of government, how long can we sustain this writing of checks before our collective rear ends can no longer cash them? We can see it coming, no reason to not prepare for this end result.

Social Security... Gen X and later probably will not see it. No matter, give me social liberty instead. Liberty may be a venture, it is still much better than a false sense of security. Take responsibility for your retirement and save, save, save. Never count on someone else to care for you more than you care for yourself. There will be many that will not be able to retire. So long as one can accept that, it isn't a problem. This delusion of retirement for all is about to end and the New Deal is about to be seen for what it really was and is.

Looking toward the government to do things that it was never intended to do is folly. All these social programs may sound real good, the outcome of these programs is almost never a good result. Could it be that freedom is not what people want? Better hope that socialized medicine doesn't become a reality. It sounds like the best idea of all. That sound is the call of the Sirens.

We can keep trading liberty for security to the point of maximum security. We all know what maximum security really means, don't we? Maximum security isn't a bad thing so long as you are the one running the facility.

Take charge of your lives right now or tomorrow someone else may take charge of it for you.
 
It's curious that everybody has their little emotion driven subjective attitude about this.Ultimately it will be an arithmetic problem.
 
It's curious that everybody has their little emotion driven subjective attitude about this.Ultimately it will be an arithmetic problem.
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Sir, you have many that agree with you! Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Chavez. All that value their freedom are indeed emotionally driven and subjective on this issue. The "arithmetic problem" will be solved when the productive class sits on their...butts as has been shown in so many "progressive" societies in the last century. The hundreds of millions killed by their own governments should also be considered an "emotion driven subjective attitude" solution to the "problem", but easier to resolve in the collective conscience if just seen as arithmetic. See, I understand!!!!
 
Sir, you have many that agree with you! Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Chavez. All that value their freedom are indeed emotionally driven and subjective on this issue. The "arithmetic problem" will be solved when the productive class sits on their...butts as has been shown in so many "progressive" societies in the last century. The hundreds of millions killed by their own governments should also be considered an "emotion driven subjective attitude" solution to the "problem", but easier to resolve in the collective conscience if just seen as arithmetic. See, I understand!!!!
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Wow! Hysteria

Pretty well proves why the budgetary problem seems impossible to address.
 
mountainclmbr said:
The "arithmetic problem" will be solved when the productive class sits on their...butts
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We've already begun to sit on our butts, and more will do so every year.

There was a cartoon in the Sunday edition of the WSJ. The pillars denoted on your Social Security card were depicted as the finish line of a marathon. One winner was breaking the tape--and a sea of competitors right behind her.

We've spoken about this before. Boomers have/had a work ethic, we generated salaries which created tax revenue for numerous social programs, and we are the biggest bloc of voters.

Well, I played my part, I'm done now. If you're in your twenties or thirties, start saving and investing now.

I will not be around to contribute, or to blame, when you decide to retire.
 
I think that the pre-baby boomers actually believed in Social Security and depended on it. The concept sounds so great I'm surprised it even went into effect given all of the logical flaws that Social Security involves.

I do not think anyone has the right to begrudge those who had faith in the system (and were/are ultimately being let down) the benefits they were promised for paying their SS and Medicare taxes for their entire working lives. I do think this generation and the two that proceed me (Generation X and the later boomers) need to call this Social Security and Medicare exactly what it is.

BS.

It's very easy to be self-righteous and indignant but I saw absolutely nothing in the way of trying to find a way to stop this social parasite, reconcile the donations of the forced participants, and move on with a way to make the future better for ourselves and our children.

Insulting the elderly, not taking into account the culture changes of the past 40 years in this country...you sound like a stupid insolent child, and a 29 year old is saying this. These individuals have every right to be pissed off as they depended on the federal government and are getting dumped on in their later years. I'm not even going to talk about my grandmother's difficulty in drawing social security, disability, and other "government benefits" that she and my deceased grandfather contributed to for 40 + years.

I do recommend contributing the maximum you can into your 401K account, use all the tax deferred benefits your employer offers (using pre-tax dollars for 401K, healthcare, flex health accounts to minimize your taxation) and focus on building a future for yourself instead of talking s@@t about the people who did not have the same types of investment opportunities presented to us now and had no reason to disbelieve they would be taken care of.

I do believe change is coming but it will be a slow and drawn out process...we're talking about an entire nation and a federal system that needs to be phased out. So in the meantime take responsibility for yourself and do your part to get people into the government who will make the changes necessary. And remember the people you are pissing and moaning about have sacrificed for more money, time, and lives than you can possibly dream of to provide us with the society we have now, we are ALL paying for the mistakes made by our government.
 
Good one!

Bureaucrats in suits should not be running our lives
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That has to be the best one I have heard in a while! What else do bureaucrats in suits do? Whether in business or in govt, that is what they do! And, that is nearly ALL they do!

As far as Social Security, well....my grandfather (1886-1982) thought it was a fine thing. A grand joke. The Govt sent him a check every month, without him ever doing anything for it! Of course, he also blamed labor unions for all the country's economic problems too.

For myself, I always figured the Govt and I had a deal. Not a deal I was allowed to pass up, but kind of like an offer I can't refuse. They take money from me while I am working, and give it back when I am not. Sounds fair. But the problem comes in when people tell me that the govt won't have the money for me when I "retire". To me, that breaks the deal. Not fair.

Of course, I guess I should not expect honesty from a politician, nor charity from a banker.

I really don't see why the OP is upset with people taking what the govt says they get. The problem is not the fact that there are "entitlement programs", the problem is the waste and fraud in the programs is using up the money. That and the fact that the govt itself is using the money for whatever flavor of the month crisis or program is currently in vogue. AND they don't put it back!

Go ahead kids, plan and save for your retirement, just don't expect any help from me, I'll be trying to get by on the $2,000 a month the govt says they will give me, IF I live long enough. And that ain't real likely.

Only good thing is, that when the govt takes away your savings to make up for the money they threw away screwing the pooch elsewhere, I won't be around to hear you whine about it!
 
The entitlement genie is out of the bottle and is not going back in any quantum amount.Despite all the libertarian sentiment against it,the majority of the people want it.They will simply out vote you.It's the reason the poltitcians tip toe around it.Fraud is a tiny part of the problem.Most of it is simply the incresae in life span, perhaps for which the entitlements themselves are partly responsible.Gets back to simple math.Either the amount of money taken will have to increase,or the benefits decrease.Or,it will bankrupt the country.
 
Sigma 40 Blaster said:
(Generation X and the later boomers) need to call this Social Security and Medicare exactly what it is.

BS.
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This is the part that confuses me.

When my property taxes go up to build or re-outfit a new school, the country says that education is important and no child should be left behind.

When your taxes go up to sustain Social Security because retired Americans are important, you claim it's a ruse, a dodge and hand-out.

The fact of the matter is that I can live quite comfortably without SS.

However, if younger generations had to pay what it really costs for college, most likely +$100K per year without government subsidies, you'd be screaming about "your rights."

I often report that I am a strict constructionist, and I am. If you read The Preamble and The Constitution you will find that none of the items you believe are rights or logical enhancements existed in the minds of The Framers.

To be free, you fought and you worked. I have long admired the Israeli concept that everyone owes two years of governmental service.

I'd be willing to forego SS if you paid for your own education (and I mean the real cost), your own roads and you paid the full extent of your taxes without weaseling deductions.

Until that time, my attitude is that I paid in, I subtract out.
 
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