The Welfare State Mentality....

[Jets2007]

This is more of a rant than anything else... but here it goes. I am in my mid-twenties and I work in the health care field. Most of the people that I deal with on a daily basis are over 60 years old. Almost all of them are very sick. Some are friendly, others are not.

95% of the folks that I come into contact with while working are victims of this massive and growing 'welfare state mentality'. A majority of the people that I deal with feel that they are 'entitled' to endless freebies from the government. Mostly, I blame this on the Federal and State governments. The bureaucrats that we elect are the ones that created this massive welfare state mentality. Secondly, I blame ourselves, the people, for allowing these social entitlement programs to grow so large. No matter what party has the majority, new 'entitlement' programs keep popping up... example, medicare Part D under George W and the Republicans. The Fed's are not serious about fixing this problem. They thrive on the fact that so many people are dependant on their social programs.

Recently, the business had a flu shot day open to the public. Over 200 people showed up. I would say 90% of them used either medicare or medicaid. I believe that the shot costed somewhere about $20 if they paid for it with cash. Most of these people flashed their government issued health insurance cards with pride. I don't think governemnt dependancy is anything to be proud of. Obviosly, many do. I don't understand it. People are so petty. They want to put items that cost $5 or $10 on their government issued insurance cards.

The Fed's and the States spend massive amounts of tax payer money on these programs and you can bet your bottom dollar that the amount of money spent will only increase as time goes on. My question is, how long does this insanity continue? How do we break this 'welfare state mentality cycle'? For my generations sake, if this cycle is not broken, we are headed towards a major national financial disaster.

Sadly, I don't think that this cycle will ever be broken. We are in too deep. It took us decades to get this this point of dependancy. With determination, it will take us decades (perhaps a generaion) to break away from this entitlement mentality. However, little determination to do so exists with a majority of the American public...... Something to think about, folks.

With that being said, it's time to find a new line of work. I have had enough with the health care field and the 'entitlement mentality'. Hopefully there are others in my generation that agree with me.

 

[Eghad]

At 65 everybody goes under Medicare even military retirees for your primary health care. Your private coverage usually serves as a secondary plan. You dont have a choice. Ten bucks may not sound like a lot of money to a young fellow but to an older person on a fixed income its important.

 

[mooreshawnm]

"I don't understand it. People are so petty. They want to put items that cost $5 or $10 on their government issued insurance cards."

I hear you and it is my natural feeling as well, however here the DPR of WA the taxes continue to rise as the endless social projects require more and more funds. I could see doing something like this (free to me but costing .gov (who in theory is me, I know)))as a way of at least getting some of the money I have been robbed of back! I know it's an endless cycle as they will just jack up rates again! Grrrhhh!

 

[Jets2007]

Eghad, I understand what you are saying. However, my point is that we should not be in the situation that we are in. Bureaucrats in suits should not be running our lives- no matter what age a person is.

 

[JuanCarlos]

At 65 everybody goes under Medicare even military retirees for your primary health care. Your private coverage usually serves as a secondary plan. You dont have a choice. Ten bucks may not sound like a lot of money to a young fellow but to an older person on a fixed income its important.

Seriously. Ten bucks is ten bucks, and I guarantee I can always find a better way to spend it (or save it). As for not having any problem taking advantage of such benefits, why should they? They paid into them. Same way I had zero problem drawing unemployment benefits, even when I had no real intention of finding employment (during the few months between the end of my active-duty service and starting school)...I paid into that (though indirectly), and I'm only getting my money back.

Heck, I'm pretty sure (don't have the paperwork handy) I paid medicare/medicaid taxes (forget which they were called) even during my deployment to Iraq, when my income wasn't even taxable at either the state or federal level.

Eghad, I understand what you are saying. However, my point is that we should not be in the situation that we are in. Bureaucrats in suits should not be running our lives- no matter what age a person is.

Good point, but you at least to some extent seemed to have a problem with the sense of entitlement some people have towards such programs. Yes, they are indeed entitled to it...because they've paid into that system, often for decades.

Which, of course, makes it nearly impossible to even end such benefits, since you've always got a whole queue of people who are going to want their money back.

 

[Redworm]

Which, of course, makes it nearly impossible to even end such benefits, since you've always got a whole queue of people who are going to want their money back.

Well at least until guys our age hit retirement age. We'll know long before then that there isn't a single red cent waiting for us.

 

[grymster2007]

They paid into them.

For the most part “they” long ago recovered anything they paid in. That’s the problem!

Same way I had zero problem drawing unemployment benefits, even when I had no real intention of finding employment

Now there’s a stand-up kinda guy!

Wonder why the OP feels the way he does?

 

[JuanCarlos]

For the most part “they” long ago recovered anything they paid in. That’s the problem!

Well, if people are drawing more out of a mandatory system (Social Security, Medicare) than they are paying in, including any interest the government failed to capitalize on, I'd say the system is in need of adjustment. I still fail to see how somebody should somehow be ashamed (or refuse) to take advantage of a benefit they paid into.

Same way I had zero problem drawing unemployment benefits, even when I had no real intention of finding employment

Now there’s a stand-up kinda guy!

Wonder why the OP feels the way he does?

While I probably shouldn't bother to defend myself, I'll go ahead. I doubt that in those three months I drew no more than I had paid in over the previous decade of work (this was the first time I had ever bothered to draw it). In other words, all I was doing was getting back the money I had paid in...which is exactly what it's there for. I was involuntarily let go from a job*, couldn't find other suitable work, and thus drew unemployment. I ceased drawing it the moment I started school, and was no longer seeking work. I see no problem here.

Note that I did meet the requirements to draw it...I actually did go out and seek work during that time. Amazingly, though, very few places (even retail) seem willing to hire you (especially at comparable pay**) when you are only available to work for the next couple months***. Who knew?

* - Note that this was only called to active duty from the National Guard...so I didn't even have the option to continue working for them (through re-enlistment) if I had wanted to.

** - I see no reason to accept a minimum wage position, even assuming I could find one for so short a period (given the responses I received when I did apply for such, I doubt it), when all I needed was a stopgap measure between the end of my deployment and the start of the next semester. Especially since I had been paying into unemployment insurance throughout my entire working life.

*** - Unless, of course, you're suggesting I should lie to these prospective employers. That wouldn't exactly make a stand-up guy either, now would it?

 

[grymster2007]

Note that I did meet the requirements to draw it

I beleive one of the requirements is to intend to find employment.

In any case, I'll not hold it against you personally.

It is easy to take take advantage of something you're allowed to regardless you may take more than you are morally entitled to... all made possible by politicians buying votes. Which gets us back to the OP's concern. We're in so deep that it may only stop at the revolution that occurs when 100% of ones earnings go to paying off the previous generation's debt. What a sorry excuse for a society we have here!

 

[Crosshair]

Eghad Ten bucks may not sound like a lot of money to a young fellow but to an older person on a fixed income its important.

No it is not, we are all on a fixed income. I work 40 hours a week and get paid by the hour. My income IS fixed, though it may vary slightly depending if I get a few minutes of overtime. My last 3 paychecks (all I have in front of me) were within $10 of each other. I get a raise every year and other than that, my income stays the same.

Yes I could get another job if I liked 60+ hour weeks, just like an elderly person can go get a part time job.

 

[JuanCarlos]

I beleive one of the requirements is to intend to find employment.

No, actually it's to actively seek employment (this must be documented and verifiable) and be willing to accept suitable employment if offered.

I met both. Like I said, very few employers will be excited about hiring somebody who is planning to quit in two months. Which is why my intent was simply to draw the unemployment benefits I paid into between the time the Army let me go (which I had no say in) and the time school started again. Doesn't mean I didn't try to find employment, just means I knew I wasn't going to.

It is easy to take take advantage of something you're allowed to regardless you may take more than you are morally entitled to... all made possible by politicians buying votes. Which gets us back to the OP's concern. We're in so deep that it may only stop at the revolution that occurs when 100% of ones earnings go to paying off the previous generation's debt. What a sorry excuse for a society we have here!

It's even easier to take advantage of something you have paid into. As for morally entitled to, I see no reason one isn't morally entitled to take advantage of a benefit they have paid into and qualify for.

As for paying of the previous generation's debt, you don't need to tell me. I've got a good 40 more years of taxes to pay, and I'm sure I'll start to see a lot more of my paychecks going to pay for the debts of the aging baby boomers.

No it is not, we are all on a fixed income. I work 40 hours a week and get paid by the hour. My income IS fixed, though it may vary slightly depending if I get a few minutes of overtime. My last 3 paychecks (all I have in front of me) were within $10 of each other. I get a raise every year and other than that, my income stays the same.

Yes I could get another job if I liked 60+ hour weeks, just like an elderly person can go get a part time job.

Yeah, I've never really understood the whole "fixed income" thing. Heck, I'd like to have a "fixed income"...that means it won't go down! Nothing like having your hours cut, and finding it's time to either find a new job, juggle two, or start learning to love Ramen and darkness.

 

[The Tourist]

If you smashed your car or had a house fire, you'd take the check, wouldn't you?

Benefits like Social Security and Unemployment are not welfare, but a program that the recipient has paid into for many decades of his working life.

If you disagree with that, then get off of the highway I built for you. As a younger man, you have paid almost nothing. As an older man, not only did I get taxed to build the original road, but also for all of the maintenance needed. So, get off of my road, slacker.

I am now retired. Like many folks, I would have preferred to take my government deductions and invest them privately. During that period, my private investments outpaced the stipend I get from the government. But that was the program I was offered.

The government took all of my deductions since I was first officially employed in 1964 and ran the country you have enjoyed. The promise was that my government would look after me after my working life had ended.

That time has come. They used my money, and now they are paying it back.

 

[JuanCarlos]

If you disagree with that, then get off of the highway I built for you. As a younger man, you have paid almost nothing. As an older man, not only did I get taxed to build the original road, but also for all of the maintenance needed. So, get off of my road, slacker.

Note that my previous statement regarding baby boomers isn't referring to Social Security so much (you paid in like anybody else), but rather the other government debt we're saddled with. You didn't necessarily pay for all of those roads and maintenance, or all of the Cold War. You guys let some of it ride.

EDIT: Actually, the "entitlement programs" part is probably a bit too vague, and won't be taken the way I meant it. I'll go ahead and edit that out.

I am now retired. Like many folks, I would have preferred to take my government deductions and invest them privately. During that period, my private investments outpaced the stipend I get from the government. But that was the program I was offered.

That's probably the loosest use of the word "offered" I've seen used since The Godfather.

 

[The Tourist]

That's probably the loosest use of the word "offered" I've seen used since The Godfather.

Sure, drag my relatives into this!

My point was that earned money and taxes and user fees are paid by us all over our lifetimes. For example, I did not buy a deer hunting license this year. I have purchased a varmint license in SD.

However, it is disingenuous to say that anyone who benefits from a government program is a "welfare queen." And clearly, my state and federal taxes have paved more roads than a younger man's.

Oh, and another thing I learned from Rush Limbaugh. You are not required to only pay the taxes due. You can send the government as much money as you wish. They even have an IRS program where cheats can pay and unburden their consciences.

So if this younger man feels that flu shots and public roads are "welfare," he can pay twice, thrice or a dozen times more if he'd like to.

 

[Thunderhawk88]

Benefits like Social Security and Unemployment are not welfare, but a program that the recipient has paid into for many decades of his working life.

The government has had no problem with reaching in my wallet and taking what it wants for the past 40 years, and it will still do it tomorrow, and next week, the week after........ all on the promise that it's insurance for when I retire. I feel no animosity for the elderly, who are only trying to make it in this mess of rising prices. (gas, food, utilities) That $20 for a flu shot may be alot of money to them now.
I just hope you younger folks who know it all, just like we knew it all way back when, remember this in later years.

 

[BerettaCougar]

I'm 23, I know you've paved more roads than me...
So far this year I paid over $7,000 in federal taxes out my yearly salary.
$7,000 (+ a few hundred) in federal taxes in 2006
$5,000 (+ a few hundred) in federal taxes in 2005
$4,000 (+ a few hundred) in federal taxes in 2004
2003 and earlier I made so little money I got all the federal taxes refunded.

At this rate I'll be near $8,000 in TAXES this year!!!


Damn skippy I'll hop on the unemployment line if need be.

 

[The Tourist]

At this rate I'll be near $8,000 in TAXES this year!!!

In an odd way, this proves my point. I don't mean to denigrate your actions, but I cannot remember a time I paid as little as 8 grand per year.

My property taxes are just a shade less.

Now, you say you're 23. Let's use that as an example. In Wisconsin, you only pay 1/3rd of the money it takes to put you through college. Taxes pay the other 2/3s. If you pay (or borrow) 50K to go to college, taxpayers pay 100K.

Technically, if you're a Wisconsin student, you're a welfare queen.

Have you paid your parents 280,000 dollars? That's what it costs the average adult to raise a child.

Technically, if your parents get nothing, you're a welfare queen.

How much money have you ever given a biker? Did you know that when you tick one off, and he goes and tosses some drunken townie, it costs him hundreds if not thousands of dollars in legal fees and lost wages.

Technically, if you've never paid off a biker, you're a welfare queen.

So be a good kid. The next time you see an old graybeard on a black Harley, walk up to him (slowly), shake his hand and give him a few hundred bucks. Tell him 'thank you' for actually doing something about your youthful angst.

You won't be a welfare queen, but all of the bikers will call you Shirley.

 

[Dust Monkey]

bucks may not sound like a lot of money to a young fellow but to an older person on a fixed income its important.

Thats not my fault, not my problem and damn sure not my responsibility to pay it out of my taxes. That older person should have seen to his/her retirement needs with a little personal responsibility. Being stupid or unprepared should hurt. Us other prepared people should not foot the bill.!

 

[BerettaCougar]

Have you paid your parents 280,000 dollars? That's what it costs the average adult to raise a child.

Technically, if your parents get nothing, you're a welfare queen.

I do give my parents money, and have ever since I started working.
I could never repay my parents for all they invested in me.
The same will happen with my kids, it's a cycle and I doubt they put me through private school wishing one day I would pay them back.

And about the college thing, I'm still in the hole $35k and make my payments everymonth, I don't see how this makes me a welfare queen...

 

[The Tourist]

I don't see how this makes me a welfare queen...

In your singular case, you are not. Not everyone can say that.

It's hard. I had to work on a loading dock at Master Lock to go to college. It was hard to come back to school and hear the vacation stories of my peers who backpacked through Europe.

But it was the right thing to do. And I believe it's what sets us apart.

I don't want welfare. I can work. I still work. But I also have met the conditions of the Social Security program. That's playing fair.

However, I've heard this story before. I sleep late, get to the gym when you're having lunch and work for whom ever I want whenever I want.

That's what I worked for. To live comfortably outside the grind. The problem is, does society believe I get to enjoy this, or is it an hand-out?