The Weatherby Magnum Calibers...
- Thread starter 979Texas
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oldmanFCSA
New member
I reload for 4 guys out of 6 in the hunting party who love my ammo.
But I have rules before I accept a new challenge.
I must have their rifles for extended periods of time.
I must have a box or two of the factory ammo they prefer to use.
I must have a history of the shooter for what he hunts, where, and what time of year.
I must know elevation details of their hunts also.
Three guys use the 300 Winchester Short Magnum cartridge, two in Tikka's, one in a Browning A-bolt. I develop loads for each rifle and inform each owner to use only ammo I load for a particular rifle is only shot in that rifle, or I won't load for them again.
The guy with the Browning A-bolt previously used a Pre-64 Model 70 Winchester in 270 Winchester - I told him I would not load for him after hearing some of his hunting stories of lost game, game that was usually hit hard but bullet did not exit to leave a blood trail. He has a tendency to shoot at game in excess of 500 yards, which means the projectile has loss a significant amount of velocity to perform properly. He lucked out on his last hunt because they had 1" of fresh snow the morning of the hunt so game was easy to track after being shot. He later admitted that the Hunting Guide told him not to come back unless he had a larger bore rifle, similar to the 300WSM the others were using.
I load the 300WSM to 3100 fps and very tight loading specifications using WIN760 powder, Federal 215 Magnum primers, and 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. After hearing the results of some of their successes, I've decided to switch to 180 or 200 grain Nosler AccuBonds, dependent on rifle and cartridge.
The fourth guy uses a 270 Weatherby Magnum and a 300 Weatherby Magnum. I am currently shooting his factory loads to develop a base set of data to which I compare my reloading data to. I've started with his 300 Weatherby Magnum in a Model V. First of all, he had requested some trigger work to clean up the pull, or better said yank. The trigger pull on his stock rifle broke at 9.25 pounds average, higher than any rifle I tested previously. After disassembling his trigger and making slight modification in addition to cleaning up some surfaces, I was able to set it as low as 6 ounces, which is much too light for most hunting rifles. I did set it to 2.25 pounds, and he was very happy with it - I did recommend he practice extensively before going on his next hunt. My initial testing with IMR4350 and IMR4831 and 180 grain Ballistic Tips did not result in the velocity or accuracy I was expecting. I've since switched to IMR7828 with Reloder 22 & 25 available if I need it. After developing a loading I like while using the Ballistic Tips, I switch to the AccuBonds for final testing of velocity and accuracy. Then I develop Ballistic Charts for them based on information I receive about their specific hunts. I have not developed anything for the 270 Weatherby Magnum yet, and I am looking for recommendations for a 0.277" diameter projectile that will perform at the velocity this rifle is capable of producing. After all testing and development has been completed, I will load a minimum of 200 rounds for each rifle and owner. Then I return rifle and ammo to them. The owners buy the components I recommend in advance of any testing or loading by myself.
Shooters 5 & 6 shoot 300 Winchester Magnums and have indicated they have interest in my loading techniques.
All payments are by donation only. I am disabled and can no longer hunt - I miss it immensely. I've been reloading since 1972 for all rifles, revolvers, pistols, or shotguns I own except rimfire ammo. (Last count 47 different rifle carytridges.)
Two of the Six have been very helpful in assisting me with my disabilities, and one provides a place I can drive to - to shoot my 50BMG target rifles out the back of my 50CAL Reloading Trailer, which allows me to develop loads at the range with all necessary equipment I have in trailer with generator for electrical power.
While some will not like the fact I reload for others, others like these guys who work hard for their hunting trips have no qualms about my ammo knowing it has been developed for their rifles exclusively. They have shot together and compared my ammo to any of their factory loads and all have stated mine are more accurate, ................................. and look better also !!!
I anneal each cartridge before any other loading starts and I am a firm believer in neck turning for consistent neck tension and pull. Cleaning primer pockets and deburring flash holes is a given along with trimming and VLD reaming case mouth. I size to a 0.002" shoulder clearance to save wear & tear on brass. I apply Match processes to all hunting ammo. For what these guys spend on their hunting trips, they know they want the best ammo available by whatever means. I process dirty brass with SS Pins to make case inspection much easier.
The only complaint I've heard is: "Your reloaded ammo is too shiny". I take great care in providing only the best I can provide. (I wish I could walk and hunt again.)
One guy used my ammo to hunt a Red Stag in New Zealand. Must trust it and me.
But I have rules before I accept a new challenge.
I must have their rifles for extended periods of time.
I must have a box or two of the factory ammo they prefer to use.
I must have a history of the shooter for what he hunts, where, and what time of year.
I must know elevation details of their hunts also.
Three guys use the 300 Winchester Short Magnum cartridge, two in Tikka's, one in a Browning A-bolt. I develop loads for each rifle and inform each owner to use only ammo I load for a particular rifle is only shot in that rifle, or I won't load for them again.
The guy with the Browning A-bolt previously used a Pre-64 Model 70 Winchester in 270 Winchester - I told him I would not load for him after hearing some of his hunting stories of lost game, game that was usually hit hard but bullet did not exit to leave a blood trail. He has a tendency to shoot at game in excess of 500 yards, which means the projectile has loss a significant amount of velocity to perform properly. He lucked out on his last hunt because they had 1" of fresh snow the morning of the hunt so game was easy to track after being shot. He later admitted that the Hunting Guide told him not to come back unless he had a larger bore rifle, similar to the 300WSM the others were using.
I load the 300WSM to 3100 fps and very tight loading specifications using WIN760 powder, Federal 215 Magnum primers, and 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. After hearing the results of some of their successes, I've decided to switch to 180 or 200 grain Nosler AccuBonds, dependent on rifle and cartridge.
The fourth guy uses a 270 Weatherby Magnum and a 300 Weatherby Magnum. I am currently shooting his factory loads to develop a base set of data to which I compare my reloading data to. I've started with his 300 Weatherby Magnum in a Model V. First of all, he had requested some trigger work to clean up the pull, or better said yank. The trigger pull on his stock rifle broke at 9.25 pounds average, higher than any rifle I tested previously. After disassembling his trigger and making slight modification in addition to cleaning up some surfaces, I was able to set it as low as 6 ounces, which is much too light for most hunting rifles. I did set it to 2.25 pounds, and he was very happy with it - I did recommend he practice extensively before going on his next hunt. My initial testing with IMR4350 and IMR4831 and 180 grain Ballistic Tips did not result in the velocity or accuracy I was expecting. I've since switched to IMR7828 with Reloder 22 & 25 available if I need it. After developing a loading I like while using the Ballistic Tips, I switch to the AccuBonds for final testing of velocity and accuracy. Then I develop Ballistic Charts for them based on information I receive about their specific hunts. I have not developed anything for the 270 Weatherby Magnum yet, and I am looking for recommendations for a 0.277" diameter projectile that will perform at the velocity this rifle is capable of producing. After all testing and development has been completed, I will load a minimum of 200 rounds for each rifle and owner. Then I return rifle and ammo to them. The owners buy the components I recommend in advance of any testing or loading by myself.
Shooters 5 & 6 shoot 300 Winchester Magnums and have indicated they have interest in my loading techniques.
All payments are by donation only. I am disabled and can no longer hunt - I miss it immensely. I've been reloading since 1972 for all rifles, revolvers, pistols, or shotguns I own except rimfire ammo. (Last count 47 different rifle carytridges.)
Two of the Six have been very helpful in assisting me with my disabilities, and one provides a place I can drive to - to shoot my 50BMG target rifles out the back of my 50CAL Reloading Trailer, which allows me to develop loads at the range with all necessary equipment I have in trailer with generator for electrical power.
While some will not like the fact I reload for others, others like these guys who work hard for their hunting trips have no qualms about my ammo knowing it has been developed for their rifles exclusively. They have shot together and compared my ammo to any of their factory loads and all have stated mine are more accurate, ................................. and look better also !!!
I anneal each cartridge before any other loading starts and I am a firm believer in neck turning for consistent neck tension and pull. Cleaning primer pockets and deburring flash holes is a given along with trimming and VLD reaming case mouth. I size to a 0.002" shoulder clearance to save wear & tear on brass. I apply Match processes to all hunting ammo. For what these guys spend on their hunting trips, they know they want the best ammo available by whatever means. I process dirty brass with SS Pins to make case inspection much easier.
The only complaint I've heard is: "Your reloaded ammo is too shiny". I take great care in providing only the best I can provide. (I wish I could walk and hunt again.)
One guy used my ammo to hunt a Red Stag in New Zealand. Must trust it and me.
Boogershooter
New member
What I truely hate to see is a man that shoots a 6 lb rifle in 30-06 but says a mark V 300 weatherby is too much recoil. The mark V coming in at just over 8lbs with the same 180 grain bullet is no more punishing than the former. The muzzle blast may be a bit more but we're also comparing 26" barrel to a much shorter barrel. Most people flinch on the first shot of any magnum but if you can convince them to close there eyes on the second shot and they realize it doesn't hurt them after the shot, they then settle down and shoot just as good as they can with their own rifle.
I will be watching this thread. I really want a Wtby Mag. I have no use for one at all. Pretty much anything that I have ever encountered will drop with a 30-06 or 460sw. But, that doesnt change my infatuation with big magnums. I want a 460wm will possibly settle for one of the lessor 416,375 etc...
May come from hearing one of my dads friends (whom I always looked up to) shoot that 300wb across the mountains Tioga. Unmistakeable sound when compared to the 270 and -06 that everyone else used.
May come from hearing one of my dads friends (whom I always looked up to) shoot that 300wb across the mountains Tioga. Unmistakeable sound when compared to the 270 and -06 that everyone else used.
Recoil is a relative. High velocity ammo was touted as an Alternative to High Recoil of the big bores. The wby might not be considered high recoil compared to the big bore guns it was intended to replace. In reality, you probably dont see many 300 wbys, replacing 375 H&H, 404 or 416. That was the claim, back in the day.
As for shooting a 6lb 30-06 over an 8 pound 300 mag. Give me that 6lb rifle all day long.
Anyone wanting a 460 wby, might consider a 505, 500, 577. The 500 a square makes better use of the powder capacity. More honest bragging rights. IMHO.
Modern conventional wisdom is a 'good' 458 on the 460 size case is the 450 rigby. The 460 wby case is a belted version of the 416 rigby case. Belt, radius shoulder, high pressure abomination vs the new 450 rigby gets it right.
As for shooting a 6lb 30-06 over an 8 pound 300 mag. Give me that 6lb rifle all day long.
Anyone wanting a 460 wby, might consider a 505, 500, 577. The 500 a square makes better use of the powder capacity. More honest bragging rights. IMHO.
Modern conventional wisdom is a 'good' 458 on the 460 size case is the 450 rigby. The 460 wby case is a belted version of the 416 rigby case. Belt, radius shoulder, high pressure abomination vs the new 450 rigby gets it right.
Since the 460m was mentioned, I like to concede a point before I get called out on it. Back in the day, the 460 could get loaded down to the equall of the modern lott, say 2300 fps. While the 458 win mag was lucky to make spec and by reports factory ammo fell short. Even today some factory ammo, norma I believe, is running under 2,000 fps. And Norma it still works. The conventional wisdom seems to be 2,300 or 2,400 is best, or high end limit, before moving up in bore size.
Boogershooter
New member
Fourbore I guess I learned something today. I thought Roy designed the 300 weatherby to simply get more velocity. I didn't know it was meant to replace the big bores. Yes I know some people tried to use it for large dangerous African game but I a Lil common sense goes a long ways. As a kid my father explained calibers and bullets to me in the former of vehicles. The high velocity small bores were like Sportscars. If you kept them between the lines they were great fun but if you got off track the results could be fatal. Big bores were much heavier, much slower, more like a 4x4 van. If you were to strike a large tree or other object which would you rather be in?
The jacket of the bullet was the frame or chassis so therfore the big copper solids of the big bores were much more dependable that thinner jackets of the high velocity rounds. Yes bullet design has come along ways in the last 40 + years but I've always assumed most people hunted small things skinned game with .308 caliber and below but considered .375 the minimum for truely large game.
The jacket of the bullet was the frame or chassis so therfore the big copper solids of the big bores were much more dependable that thinner jackets of the high velocity rounds. Yes bullet design has come along ways in the last 40 + years but I've always assumed most people hunted small things skinned game with .308 caliber and below but considered .375 the minimum for truely large game.
Boogershooter
New member
Sorry for all the typos in my last post. I also apologize because sometimes my thought don't get fully explained. My mind works faster than my fingers and I lose train of thought easily. I wasn't trying to say anything bad about any caliber. I truely enjoy shooting what I consider middle magnums. 300 weatherby thru 338 winmag. I put video cameras around my bench and that shows people they are flinching when they swear they are not. Usually one at the chronograph and one kindly above and behind the shooter. Usually on the opposite side of the shouldered rifle. This also shows how much the rifle jumps after the shot. I've had alot of shocked reactions from people after they see the video of their new super light 30-06 or 270 jumps. Sometimes completely off the bags. I've seen more men hit with scopes on these light rifles than any of the middle magnums.
It's popular here for men to buy the Lil compact rifles because they are easy to move in the box stand or blind. The remington model 7 and the compact rugers have tallied up more eyebrows than any other class of rifles. Most of this is because the scopes are mounted to far rearward for bench style shooting. Just my .02 cents, hope I didn't step on too many toes.
It's popular here for men to buy the Lil compact rifles because they are easy to move in the box stand or blind. The remington model 7 and the compact rugers have tallied up more eyebrows than any other class of rifles. Most of this is because the scopes are mounted to far rearward for bench style shooting. Just my .02 cents, hope I didn't step on too many toes.
Hey gentlemen, thanks for all of the great informative posts. I have greatly appreciated all of the wide ranges of opinions and input and I'm looking forward to hearing more from yall on this thread.
@Boogershooter, I totally agree with you about recoil and rifle kicks from light rifles. The worst kicking rifle I have ever shot was my .243. It was one those real small, short, light, and compact single shot NEF youth models. Its the only gun I have ever had the scope come back and hit my forehead with. I still have that gun to this day.
I do hear alot of negatives about the recoil of some of these Weatherby Magnums, and I have never shot any of these fine magnum calibers, but recoil has never bothered me at all and I never really notice it except on certain shotguns. I'm also a large man at 6 feet tall and 280 lbs so I don't know if that would have anything to do with my tolerance for recoil. But I just wonder if the recoil is really just that bad on some of these Weatherby Magnum calibers, I just have trouble believing that at least for some of those calibers.
But these Weatherby calibers do have extremely high ballistics which I am quite fond of amongst other capabilities of these calibers, so even if you do have to put up with some recoil, its just a tradeoff or a light sacrifice for superior ballistics and trajectory's. But like I said I have no experience with these calibers, thats why I started this thread so I can attain more knowledge.
@Boogershooter, I totally agree with you about recoil and rifle kicks from light rifles. The worst kicking rifle I have ever shot was my .243. It was one those real small, short, light, and compact single shot NEF youth models. Its the only gun I have ever had the scope come back and hit my forehead with. I still have that gun to this day.
I do hear alot of negatives about the recoil of some of these Weatherby Magnums, and I have never shot any of these fine magnum calibers, but recoil has never bothered me at all and I never really notice it except on certain shotguns. I'm also a large man at 6 feet tall and 280 lbs so I don't know if that would have anything to do with my tolerance for recoil. But I just wonder if the recoil is really just that bad on some of these Weatherby Magnum calibers, I just have trouble believing that at least for some of those calibers.
But these Weatherby calibers do have extremely high ballistics which I am quite fond of amongst other capabilities of these calibers, so even if you do have to put up with some recoil, its just a tradeoff or a light sacrifice for superior ballistics and trajectory's. But like I said I have no experience with these calibers, thats why I started this thread so I can attain more knowledge.
Boogershooter
New member
979 I'm not sure about all the details with recoil. I'm 6ft and 180 lbs. It's taken me 40 years to get to 180 lbs. Ive been told by some that a smaller man gets pushed around more and doesn't exactly feel the same recoil on the skeletal system that a big man does. They say a bigger man has more soft tissue on his shoulder that allows the rifle to move further rearward before actually moving the shooter. I'm not sure how true any of that is. I do believe however that there may be a difference in muscle tone of each person and muscle and flab do have different densities. I guess that's why they say recoil is relative.
I grew up shooting shotguns alot. Most don't think about the recoil of a shotgun because they are usually standing whIle shooting. If you are shooting full power loads especially the 3 and 3 1/2 inch loads then you truely begin to feel the recoil. Most of your big bore magnums are comparable to these. I've asked quite a few people to lay one on a bench and shoot it like a rifle. After doing so they usually agree they wouldn't shoot a rifle with similar recoil if it had a high power scope on it. Believe me I'm no expert in any category of marksmanship but I am pretty good at knowing my limits. 375 h&h is my limit of being able to lay a rifle down on a bench and making a good shot.
Recoil velocity is what hurts. It's common for people to buy magnums then shoot the lightest bullets they can find for the velocity and less recoil. Most long range shooters will tell you that normally the heavy for caliber bullets have the higher ballistic coefficient. In my weatherby magnums I can't get the light bullets to shoot well. So be prepared because the heavier bullet you are pushing out of the barrel the harder the rifle is going to kick.
I grew up shooting shotguns alot. Most don't think about the recoil of a shotgun because they are usually standing whIle shooting. If you are shooting full power loads especially the 3 and 3 1/2 inch loads then you truely begin to feel the recoil. Most of your big bore magnums are comparable to these. I've asked quite a few people to lay one on a bench and shoot it like a rifle. After doing so they usually agree they wouldn't shoot a rifle with similar recoil if it had a high power scope on it. Believe me I'm no expert in any category of marksmanship but I am pretty good at knowing my limits. 375 h&h is my limit of being able to lay a rifle down on a bench and making a good shot.
Recoil velocity is what hurts. It's common for people to buy magnums then shoot the lightest bullets they can find for the velocity and less recoil. Most long range shooters will tell you that normally the heavy for caliber bullets have the higher ballistic coefficient. In my weatherby magnums I can't get the light bullets to shoot well. So be prepared because the heavier bullet you are pushing out of the barrel the harder the rifle is going to kick.
I admire the Weatherby rifles simply because the finish is very nice. I have a Vanguard that is nice looking and nice to shoot...30-06.
I have a Mark 5 in 460. Nice wood and nice finish.
I won't shoot the 460 off a bench but have no reservations standing.
A Win M70 in 338 WM is very hard to shoot off the bench. Felt recoil is horrible.
I also have a Win M70 in 375 H&H that has much less felt recoil than the 338WM.
The Vanguard had excellent accuracy and I can shoot the 460 to 1.5" at 100 with 5 shots. It takes me maybe 15 minutes per shot to do so. The barrel gets hot quick.
I have a Mark 5 in 460. Nice wood and nice finish.
I won't shoot the 460 off a bench but have no reservations standing.
A Win M70 in 338 WM is very hard to shoot off the bench. Felt recoil is horrible.
I also have a Win M70 in 375 H&H that has much less felt recoil than the 338WM.
The Vanguard had excellent accuracy and I can shoot the 460 to 1.5" at 100 with 5 shots. It takes me maybe 15 minutes per shot to do so. The barrel gets hot quick.
I have two friends that hunt deer with this exact same gun. They have both replaced the stock with a synthetic adult stock. it is a very-very-very mild shooting gun. Both fast handling and easy to carry. As you say, It might be a problem for an adult with that youth stock and scope to far back.
To say this gun, kicks is a bit misleading. Maybe your worst experience to date, but; this was a real sweet package that will be missed, now that remlin has discontinued this gun.
This maybe drifting a bit OT, but the American shooting scene is taking advantage of the 6.5 mm bullets with a couple new rounds that have some excellent long range potential. Flat shooting and retained energy all out of proportion to the size. I guess you call it efficiency, but; if you are looking for hi velocity that really plays out well down range google the 6.5 creedmore. You dont get the big boom as part of the experience, or the wby nostalgia. These 6.5's are really making a strong showing. I would like to try one sometime. I dont know if the Hornady factory loads are strictly match ammo or if you can buy hunting loads. Probably a hand loading situation with wby or the new 6.5's. The old 6.5 sweede should do the same job, but the creedmore is the sexy new deal. My 2c: 6.rmm could be an alternative to some of the massive thirties. It is not how fast you start out, it is how you end up.
Yeah I've been pretty familiar with the 6.5 Creedmoor for about 5 years now. It's a good cartridge but I would never buy one it's got decent ballistics but very little difference in that and a more seasoned .260 Remington. And with the Creedmoor your barely getting 3000 fps and 2400 ftlbs with a 120 grain amax when compared to a .257 Weatherby where you're getting over 3300 fps and nearly 3000 ftlbs. With a 120 grain bullet. There's just not a lot to compare there at all. One is the dominant caliber, while the other is just plain weaker.
I'm not dissing the 6.5, it is a great efficient and innovative cartridge, and I happen to be huge fans of the 6.5 Grendels in AR platforms, and also the .260 Remington in AR type platforms. And both of those are definently on my guns to own bucket list. But comparing these 6.5 cartridges to the Weatherby Mags, it's like comparing apples to oranges, except for the 26 Nosler, now that is a 6.5 cartridge definently in the Weatherby leagues. And nostalgia has absolutely nothing to do at all with my interest and fondness of the Weatherby Mags.
I'm not dissing the 6.5, it is a great efficient and innovative cartridge, and I happen to be huge fans of the 6.5 Grendels in AR platforms, and also the .260 Remington in AR type platforms. And both of those are definently on my guns to own bucket list. But comparing these 6.5 cartridges to the Weatherby Mags, it's like comparing apples to oranges, except for the 26 Nosler, now that is a 6.5 cartridge definently in the Weatherby leagues. And nostalgia has absolutely nothing to do at all with my interest and fondness of the Weatherby Mags.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
At the time of their introduction, Weatherby cartridges were pretty much superior in their ballistics over most others. They're still competitive in performance, after decades of R&D by others. Kudos to Mr. Roy.
Then again, so's the '06 a hunter's competitive cartridge.
Then again, so's the '06 a hunter's competitive cartridge.
Jack O'Conner
New member
Roy's 257 Weatherby MAG is the only one with slight appeal to me because of its manageable recoil and very flat trajectory. Sort of like the 25-06 on steroids. The remainder of Weatherby cartridges have zero appeal to me. I'm no fan of heavy recoil and muzzle blast.
Jack
Jack
So, the moral of this story is buy and shoot what you want and what you like. I own everything from a 17 to a 338 Lapua, with Wby's thrown in for good measure. I tend to like the big boomers and recoil is where you find it. 
Got to Wally World and pick up a cheap short barrel Remington 870 pump. Buy a box of slugs and a big hammer. Find a good friend and a bench somewhere. Shoot some slugs over a sandbag. Then, get your friend to hit you in the shoulder with the hammer to deaden the pain from the 870.
So, yes, the big magnums do have some recoil, but so does your cheap duck gun. Wby mags, RUM's, short magnums, all have their place and as long as folks like ole Roy have the freedoms to come up with different variations of the old velocity/calber/bullet scenarios we will always have something to talk and argue about. I like it!
Got to Wally World and pick up a cheap short barrel Remington 870 pump. Buy a box of slugs and a big hammer. Find a good friend and a bench somewhere. Shoot some slugs over a sandbag. Then, get your friend to hit you in the shoulder with the hammer to deaden the pain from the 870.
So, yes, the big magnums do have some recoil, but so does your cheap duck gun. Wby mags, RUM's, short magnums, all have their place and as long as folks like ole Roy have the freedoms to come up with different variations of the old velocity/calber/bullet scenarios we will always have something to talk and argue about. I like it!