The Warrior mind set, is thinking too slow?

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Brit

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Discussion on the Warrior Mind Set.

What I am referring too, is training a person, or group, to respond to a threat, but a group who are from a part of the City/World, that violence, fighting, is not in their lives.

I spent 5 years as a bouncer (we would say Doorman! Posh) 1960 till 64, The Cavern Club, of The Beatles time, got stabbed twice there, and a year at The Blue Angel on Seal Street, in Liverpool 8. This was Liverpool UK.

After you had been in a few fights, no thought was quick enough, thinking took to much time, was too slow.
You had to respond subconsciously.

A young man tried to kill me with a home made Ice Pick kind of weapon, He thrust this at my sternum, my wrist took it. I had been working at the Cavern for a couple of years then, if that had been week two, not year two, I would have been dead.

I think one way to describe this, the Warrior Mindset is kind of close, is this, every one is connected, almost like we all have connections to each other, when dealing with body part strikes, fist/feet/knees/elbows/head butts, or hand held weapons, knives, clubs, chains, things of that nature, people around you move, so do you.

These movements are mostly subconscious, you need to have been in many of these situations to develop this, some never do, and quit before they are hurt badly (or after they are) body language is so important, you need to learn to master that very soon.

The turn of a foot, twist of hip, dip of a shoulder. These are all tell tales, the ones who miss these, tend to sport bent beaks early on, at 74 mine is still straight!

In this PC society we live in, how do you teach this is my question, I have it, but not from these times. From the 60s, in a tough City.
 
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Are you talking about recognizing a threat, countering it, or both ? I disagree about the "thinking" but that might be a personal thing.
I was also a bouncer for awhile, but always did double duty as either a bartender or DJ.
 
I have no idea what PC world you are talking about. Our military teaches the warrior mindset quite well, as does yours. I seem to recall a squad of one of the Highland regiments running low on ammo and doing a bayonet charge against some Iraqis within the last few years. I seem to remember they took out 37 with cold steel. Our crime rates here, and for that matter across the pond, are worse now than in the early 60's. Our southern border is a war zone plain an simple. Drunks in bars are no nicer now either. Warrior institutions teach well, as does experience. Just like before. Some are warriors, some can be taught to be, and there are always some that just aren't.
 
Don't bogart that doobie.....

Are you taking tactical warrior or barroom fighter? Two entirely different mind sets.
 
Depends on the warrior. The only proper mindset is to win at all costs. All think this way but go about it differently. Some have lines drawn where others wouldn't think twice about crossing. Your mindset should be to win, any other thoughts do indeed take too long and that is why we train.

Repeat, repeat, and repeat again until it becomes second nature.
 
I don't even know how to respond to this.........We live in a different era.
Using your head is what keeps you out of trouble.If your not using your head
and diving in without thinking,your bound for jail.

also most of what you said seemed gibberish,made no sense.
 
I recall an incident that was in the Sacramento, California newspapers back in the 1970's. A guy was awaken at night by noise in his garage. He got up and went into the hallway from his bedroom, only to see the figure of a man at the other end of the hall. He immediately attacked the figure and as he grabbed the intruder a gunshot lit the hall and a bullet grazed his side.

The story, as it unfolded, was this guy was paid to kill this guy, but he was in the wrong house. When I read that story I recall thinking, 'Boy had that been my house I'd be dead.' I would have uttered sopmething like, 'What are you doing in my house ?' The gunshot would not have grazed my side. The original victim was inside the intruders arm length by the time the intruder got his gun up.

Now that might be what the OP is suggesting. Acting to the situation without taking the time to analyze it, or question the 'Givens' ... just act. I suppose the OP also implies that training, and/or experience results in more correct responses, as opposed to incorrect responses. This seems reasonable to me, as I think, 'Practice makes permanent.'
 
My first thought is, "Is a nightclub bouncer a warrior?" Followed by what does being street smart have to do with being a warrior. "Warrior" and "war fighter" are new buzzwords and as such, no longer have any meaning, if they ever did. However, I understand your point. Only it doesn't have anything to do with being a warrior. Read Cooper's book.

There are always some contradictions that show up in discussions like that, when, say, the original post mentions that most people anymore have no experience with violence, followed up a few replies later with someone saying that the world is much more violent than it used to be and we have lost our innocence, etc., etc., etc.

So, which is it?

I don't think the world is any more violent that it used to be and also that people did not necessarily live with more violence in the past or resort to it any more. That isn't the same as saying that people's reactions to it or more importantly, official reaction to it isn't different. We pretty much live in a police state nowadays anyway. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing since so many on this forum are interested in police work.

Is being exposed to less violence a good thing or a bad thing? It isn't clear in the original post.

Real warriors, I suppose, are people in the army and the marines. A draftee is as much of a warrior as a volunteer or enlistee--or graduate of a military academy (like VMI as well as West Point). (OK, like the Citadel, too). Napoleon's Grand Armee was mostly conscripts. They turned the old idea of the military upside down for a few years before ultimately returning to pretty much what they had before. But the army that was raised for the hundred days and was defeated at Waterloo was mostly volunteer, more or less. Today, by the way, is the anniversary of the Battle of Waterloo.

Then there are warriors like Indian Warriors and Japanese samurai, both of whom were certainly real warriors but had codes of conduct that we simply wouldn't understand without a lot of effort. The samurai operated in a society that was incredibly rigid whereas the American Indian was just the opposite but there's no way an Indian warrior would ever not be considered a warrior.

But were they street smart? You can be street smart without being a warrior, I think.
 
I also wanted to say that the warrior mentality has no place in police work. That seems to be an unfortunate trend in police circles, for some police more than others, to think of themselves as something other than civilian, they are at war on crime, etc. But they aren't military. They are civilian. There is no war. If so, are we the enemy?
 
Brit, I think you are confused about "warrior mind set" then also about the roll of thinking in combat.

The skill of using/having muscle memory applied to martial arts (versus muscle memory for a labor-based job) is not warrior mindset, nor is your body parts being connected to you and you connected to people.

The warrior mindset is basically the mental commitment to the primary object of survival in conflict.

In this PC society we live in, how do you teach this is my question,
Click to expand...

No, your question is if thinking is too slow.
 
Back ground

45Gunner

The Cavern was not a Bar, no booze.

It was a night Club? Closest description, we were paid to protect the kids, 15YOA and up to maybe 18 (Made up to look 25!) from the adult males, the ones who took their wedding rings off to enjoy their evening.

We separated those at the door (If we had of had a door!) stopped them, therein lay the threat.

Our Club, The Cavern was really the only place kids could go, all the other Clubs had drinking licenses, and memberships.

The same problem for kids then, as now, no were to go! You have heard that lament before have you not.

Coupled with the fact Liverpool was, and is, a large Seaport, the night was full of threats to this age of kids, like New York was, and is.

I did not smoke or drink, worked a 44 hour week at a full time job, and three nights Thur/Fri/Sat; to support a young Family.

After the football games, (you call it Soccer) multiple assailants was the norm, no guns, knives were not that prevalent, but were there, IE I was stabbed twice.

If you went to the ground, you had every chance to loose teeth, or an eye.

That part of my life gave me the building blocks to take into the Security and Police weapons training I taught for 23 years. This was an era when the Self defense, in track suits, and gun guys never mixed the gym with the range, the 80s! Boots in the Gym. Sacrilege!

It was only later, many years later, reading of the Fight or Flight syndrome that I fully understood the emotions we experienced, a backward way of learning, if you would.

Recommended reading. No not recommended, essential!

"Sharpening the Warrior's Edge". by Bruce K. Siddle

"On Killing". By Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
 
My opinion is that "warrior mind set" is not essential to personal survival, although combative skills and the willingness to overcome and survive certainly do apply. "Warrior mind set" sells books and magazine articles to wannabes.

If survival is the objective, running away or hiding is a great option. Teaching a threatened person to fight like a cornered rat if running away is not possible is fine. However, "warrior mind set" precludes running away, and therefore may not promote survival.

Warriors are persons who are skilled in the management of violence to resolve conflicts between groups, and who subsequently acquire fighting skills and attitudes as core personality traits.

Effective warriors are survivors, but personal survival is not the warrior's central concern. Rather, the warrior's principal purpose is to place his or her body between a threat and the group whose collective welfare is his or her responsibility. Usually this group is one to which he owes allegiance (e.g.; family, comrades-in-arms, community). Running away (the "duty to retreat" found in law that is normally required of the ordinary citizen) is not an option for the warrior, and in fact could be punished by the group. Conversely, the citizen who does not retreat when threatened may also be punished.

Several classes of people may have fighting skills. Warriors (cops, military) fight. Brawlers fight. Athletes (boxers, hockey players, footballers, etc.) fight in a formalized, symbolic way. Cornered mammals of any species fight when trapped by predators.

Warriors engage in violence for a purpose larger than themselves. Brawlers fight because they are addicted to the physical and emotional sensations they experience when in conflict. Sports figures are merely gladiators, engaging in physical conflict or competition for our entertainment, and their personal aggrandizement. Cornered mammals fight because they must.

The warrior is the only one who has a duty to fight. The citizen in the "PC" society does not.

Warrior mind set is romantic hype as it applies to survival training, and the name of the game is survival. The average citizen should focus on survival skills: avoid, evade, escape, fight as a last resort.
 
The same problem for kids then, as now, no were to go! You have heard that lament before have you not.
Click to expand...

The problem is not that they have no where to go. It's that they have nothing to do. Child labor laws should be relaxed so that non-productive kids can get their butts in the fields and factories and make some money for themselves and their families. Then you Brits and us Americans wouldn't need to rely on immigrant labor.
 
Murdock

An unusual start to a training session.... Loaded pistols securely holstered, belts tight, and boot laces tight.

Range door closed facing 4 targets, 4 on the line, 4 behind those 4.

"Ear muffs off" "Wait for the go command" "When I say go" "Run to your vehicles, touch with your Ear Muffs, and back to the line".... "GO"

When they all come back, puffing and panting, give the firing commands.

"The first part of that exercise" running away! Nothing wrong with that.
"The second part, shooting out of breath" That is part of training. Nothing wrong with running away, if that is the right course of action, unless it is personal, running away and leaving my Wife, it ain't happening.
 
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