The Value of Human Life vs. Animal Life

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oldbillthundercheif

Moderator
It is my position that the life of a man is infinitely more valuable than the life of any animal. Because of this I have been railed against in a wide variety of discussions...

I contend that treating animals as beings with a value to society equal or close to equal to humans is the start of a dangerous downward spiral that will lead to hunting being banned, misdemeanor animal-related crimes turned into serious felonies (already happening), and our traditional American lifestyle being gutted.

The attitude that people guilty of crimes against animals should be keel-hauled and left to rot or killed outright is expressed often around here in threads ranging in topic from Vick and his heinous dogfighting syndicate to trophy hunting discussions, but I doubt that the posters have put much thought into where all of this is leading.

When normal, rational individuals take sides with the Animal Liberation Front on any issue, I think it shows a serious flaw in the poster's logic. The attitude that any animal has a social value significant enough to warrant the death or imprisonment on felony charges of any human because of its mistreatment is disgusting to me and shows a lack of appreciation for the things that make us human.

I'm not sure I fit in around here. It seems to me that this forum is full of people who would shoot someone for kicking a dog and then preach about how they "like dogs more than people anyway". They may not realize it, but that's exactly the mindset of the ALF, a terrorist organization of the most insane type.

What do y'all think? Is a human's life to be valued above all animals or are we all just equal critters who should be protected equally?

The responses to this question will decide whether or not I stick around here, so if you like my posts try to convince me that everyone here is not lined up on the wrong side of a significant ethical question. The insane dog folks are treading on my last nerve...
 
"Get your filthy hands off me you damn dirty ape!" :p

For the fate of humans and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and humans have no advantage over the animals; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows whether the human spirit goes upwards and the spirit of animals goes downwards to the earth?

Ecclesiastes 3.19-21

The attitude that any animal has a social value significant enough to warrant the . . . imprisonment on felony charges of any human because of its mistreatment is disgusting to me and shows a lack of appreciation for the things that make us human.
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I don't think 12-18 months is unreasonable for engaging in what can only be considered sociopathic behavior. Of course I do not consider animals the equal of humans, but likewise I believe cruel and inhumane behavior is deserving of censure, condemnation, and punishment.

Proud to live in Gamecock Country! Go Cocks!
 
A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy :):D (teasing)

There is a fine line between humane and inhumane. Catch and release fishing vis a vis cockfighjting. Trophy hunting vs meat hunting. And so on.

I dont have the answers, its like porn, I know what it is when I see it :)

WildgoodthreadAlaska TM
 
Bill,the notion that you can indiscriminately kill any animal for any reason because they don't have as much value as a human being is just crazy.

That mindset presented as the character of hunters will destroy your right to hunt a lot faster than some deserved indignation over the action of a moron police officer and a sadistic ball player.
 
I don’t raise animals to the status of humans, but there are a lot of humans I would have sacrificed over my dog. She was a better person than many of them. As for Vick; he should rot. Something wrong with a human who enables, encourages and profits from dogs fighting to the death.

On the other hand, I don’t grieve for the cows I’ve eaten. I don’t think it right to for them to suffer any more than required to become a steak, but even if they go down hard, they still need to end up on my plate.

I never really followed the K-9 thread, (I was too busy being called a racist caveman:D) but it appears to have had a profound impact on you. I might disagree with you here, but don’t want to see you leave… at least til I know you better.:)
 
Bill,the notion that you can indiscriminately kill any animal for any reason because they don't have as much value as a human being is just crazy.
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I agree, but that's not the chestnut that I was driving at. I think Vick should have been brought up on charges of running an illegal gambling syndicate and whatever MISDEMEANOR animal-cruelty charges were applicable. I just don't see how mistreating an animal, any animal, is significant enough to warrant felony charges of any type.

I tend to think of felonies as the worst-of-the-worst crimes and fail to see how a crime against an animal can fit in that catagory. Crimes against animals are deplorable and every damn offense seems to be a felony these days, but I just can't justify shoehorning an offense against a non-human into the classification meant for killers and rapists.
 
PETA I am not! But I do believe that my dogs are better friends thin I can find in a Metropolis. My dogs will keep away the bad man and have done so many times. I live in the boonies and this is one of the only houses not robbed in the past 10 years. Gun lock Up and all I would have lost a lot! I have more faith in my Dogs then I do with the neighbor that lives 2 tenths of a mile away.

I don't know where you live, but I would rather have 12 dogs then the police on call.

My two dogs take care of the three of us humans and we take care of them. They take care of the chickens, the other rift raft we have. This is there home.

I guess We Are A Pact!!!!!!

Some people should try living with them, It's not so bad. If you live in the Matropolis, Not good. Thats why I don't/////
 
Bill, the callous disregard for and abuse of other life, tends to mark the individual as someone who may not place much value on any life. Human or animal. It is a definite (but not conclusive) indication of sociopathic behavior.

But I agree with you to the extent that way too many felonies are on the books today... Thanks to way too many people singing the mantra, "There oughta be a law," which our "trusted" legislatures promptly comply. sigh...
 
For testing the sincerity of a Christian's profession, animals offer just such a simplified situation: Being devoid of wealth, of prestige, in many species of popularity, and of various other accidents that may furnish nonaltruistic motives for being beneficent to human beings, they afford material for a critical test of a Christian's humility and charity.
 
Thunderchief,
I do find it disheartening that you lay balance this thread the decision on the future of your involvement here. I can understand your frustration. However, I believe that your contributions here are far too important to several members of this board. Take a hiatus. But, I ask, don't leave permanently. That's my take on that subject...

As far as the value to society of dogs to humans...
I believe that humans have in years past and present have brought up dogs in general to the level close to humans through dometication and cross-breeding. Dogs have provided service to humans that sometimes are valued that a price tag cannot be placed. K9 units and Military service dogs come to mind as example.

With that, I think we as higher forms of being have a responsibility to protect ones that cannot defend themselves. Do I think one such as Vick be put to death? No. Do I think it should be a felony if he drowned/electricuted those dogs? Yes, I do. And I think he should pay dearly.

My views are what comes from my good conscience, not what PETA or ALF thinks. If they think similar, same, or completely different than me, so be it. I won't change my thinking based on their agenda. I don't think the crime should be the same as that of a human life being taken. But, I do think we're in a civilized society that knows better than to treat an animal like that. Don't get me wrong. I don't think an ant or a house fly has the same protection. I'm talking about a domesticated animal that was originally put on this earth to provide service to man, not brutal "entertainment". It's been going on long enough and a high profile individual is being shown on national TV an example of what will happen if you do such henious acts.

That's my two hay-pennies...
 
Here's how we do it in South Cackalacky. :)

(A) A person convicted of classified offenses, must be imprisoned as follows:

(1) for a Class A felony, not more than thirty years;

(2) for a Class B felony, not more than twenty-five years;

(3) for a Class C felony, not more than twenty years;

(4) for a Class D felony, not more than fifteen years;

(5) for a Class E felony, not more than ten years;

(6) for a Class F felony, not more than five years;

(7) for a Class A misdemeanor, not more than three years;

(8) for a Class B misdemeanor, not more than two years;

(9) for a Class C misdemeanor, not more than one year.
 
I don't believe animals have 'rights' or that they can be equated to humans. However I do believe that cruelty to animals is wrong and cock fighting or dog fighting constitutes cruelty to animals. In the Vick case it was not only the dog fighting but the manner in which the 'losing' dogs were killed that was an issue. Don't believe I'm qualified to pass judgement on the appropriate punishment.

That being said, IMO both PETA and ALF 'go way overboard' in their views of animals and 'animal rights'

Hunting and the raising and killing of animals for food does not constitute cruelty to animals and presents no problem to me.

.
 
oldbillthundercheif
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If you don't believe animal cruelty should be a felony, do you also think that destroying inanimate objects should not be a felony?

Like, maybe if someone burned down the Redwood Forest on purpose, just for the hell of it. Do you think that should not be a felony? I mean after all its just a bunch of trees, right?
 
Bill, to take pleasure from the pain and suffering of any animal, person or creature is perverted and wrong. I have been a hunter and fisherman for over 60 years, but since I left Alaska I have given up hunting altogether because I just don't want to kill anymore. I don't like catch and release fishing, trophy hunting or poaching. I do eat meat, and if the right hunt with the right people comes up, I may go. But I can say that I have never enjoyed killing and every time I have killed, I have had a feeling of regret that the animal has lost its life.

I always ate what I killed, and never hunted anything I wouldn't eat. I also never hunted for trophies. But the last ten years I lived in Alaska I never bought meat at the store.

A man who doesn't respect the other creatures of the world is not a man I would share society with. Remember God made them all and if you can't respect the animal, respect its creator.:)
 
oldbillthunderchief said:
The Value of Human Life vs. Animal Life
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The causal dynamic will be that value/worth of any *thing* is largely subjective to who's talking.

Case in point:

oldbillthunderchief said:
It is my position that the life of a man is infinitely more valuable than the life of any animal.
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And lets face it – you’re pretty entrenched in your beliefs. So much so that instead of asking for a debate on the topic, you’ve digressed into asking the members of this board to convince you to stick around.

I don't see where there's much room for discussion when you’ve chosen to align those who might disagree with you’re own arguably extreme position, with the likes of ALF. That is a bit of a Strawman if you ask me.

There are many notches on the Sanity Dial between thinking it’s immoral to mistreat an animal, and the goals/principals professed by ALF.

Sorry if this is not much of a contribution to your thread. I suppose I interpreted your post to be a bit pompous and while my own beliefs do not line up with those you hold (at least on this subject), rest assured that I absolutely loathe the likes of ALF, PETA,… et cetera.
 
Old Bill: Hunting isn't the same as animal cruelty for Godsakes! Animal cruelty is a sign that the person is a cowardly, sadistic, weak jacka**.

Can't you see the difference?
 
I believe Animals take a back-seat to Human lives....

Although there are exceptions...If a dog (That I didn't know) and a stoned out worthless druggie (That I know. And is a piece of trash) were both laying on a highway with a truck approaching I would move the dog and then IF I could the guy... Dog first in that case.

But anyone who treats animals cruelly should be given the same treatment he gave his animal (Like a local guy who beat his stuff just for the sake of beating :eek:.... He shoulda had the 4 foot long chain used on him ).

However I feel no remorse for pulling the trigger on a deer, pheasent or any other game animal. That is what they were meant for...

And although I admittedly dislike it..occasionally I allow a gopher to remain wounded if there are others around for targets....Here they are vermin and are as bad as fleas.....(Hey. Dont judge. We shot over 15,000 .22 rounds at gophers this year and didn't even dent the population)
 
Nobody has shown up yet to say "I like dogs better than people, and I'll kill you if you mess with my dog" yet so I guess there is some hope.

Like, maybe if someone burned down the Redwood Forest on purpose, just for the hell of it. Do you think that should not be a felony? I mean after all its just a bunch of trees, right?
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Good question. I guess I would say that, in a hypothetical situation where someone could somehow burn a forest without threatening the lives of people, that should not be a felony. In real life where people get burned by fires, it's a different story.

I didn't mean to be all dramatic about this, but it's something I feel strongly about. Human nature leads us to use animals for our needs. It shows good character to be respectful of the deal, but critters are food and slave-labor. Back when people used beasts of burden and lived with the animals they ate it would have been nearly impossible to get all idealistic about our relationship with the other residents of the planet, but things have changed. We can pretend that nothing bad should ever happen to the animals we use and pretend to see nonexistent human traits in them. Weird... and I'm not sure I want to associate myself with people willing to buy into that kind of thinking.
 
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