The US versus Switzerland - Why So Different ??

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RE: immigration to Switzerland

I may be wrong, but I am under the impression that the high immigration is for paying jobs and that its extremely difficult to obtain Swiss citizenship for non-native born.


Thus...based on that premise...immigrants are there to make money by working, not by mischief; and since its unlikely they will ever be citizens, they don't have a "stake" in socialized programs (health care, etc), they don't have a proprietary or territorial attitude about where they live....in short, they go there to make money and leave when they have their nut.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
in other words, the immigrants into Switzerland arent on the dole like many here in Us, not all immigrants of coarse,but southern Kalifornia spend more on social care for illegals and their 'new American offspring than can be comprehended by right thinking people. This woulnt be allowed in Switzerland or Mexico for that matter.When will the madness end and the borders sealed? Never.
 
Just rememberd that somewhere I read that what little crime that occurs in Switzerland is predominatly not from native citizens but from the people who have moved there for outside. I will try an find this article if I can remember from where it came.

A UNITED STATES AMERICAN.
 
Why is there less crime in switzterland??

There is no poverty in switzerland. (just don't ask where the money comes from) There are no ghettos, no shanty towns, no roving packs of dissafected youth searching for direction on the mean streets. The difference is a LACK of desperation, real or percieved that exists in switzerland. And they aren't just looking through rose colored glasses. They have thier addicts and thugs, they also take care of thier mentally ill and exist peacefully in a multi lingual society.

Its NOT about race color creed or religion, its about economics and security.

Its also about taking responsibilty for what happens in your community (as is well represented in countries with compulsory "militia" service). Compulsory service (military of civil or ??) Might make us a better nation.. and get some of our people who "fear to tread" in THOSE nieghborhoods to MEET some of your nieghbors from "across the tracks".

Its that "us versus them" mentality that causes problems. We are all americans, wheather you got here with the Mayflower or you got your citizenship yesterday. We ALL have god given rights, and constitutional guarantees.

It pains me to see post like well when i was 16 i was held at knife point by this BLUE man, or my girlfriend was assaulted by a PURPLE guy... what the HELL does the color of his skin have to do with the fact that a crime was commited???

The real facts are: people commit crimes in their own nieghborhoods and places THEY feel safe. hence most crimes in reality are white on white black on black etc. When you HIGHLIGHT the fact that a BLUE guy killed an ORANGE guy you CREATE the perception of a "race problem" when there IS NOT one.

What is wrong with HAVING a little Italy or a greek town or a chinatown in YOUR city?? That's part of the wonderful thing about living in a place like a america, cultural diversity.

"Give me your tired your poor your huddled masses" America will give YOU the oppurtunity (NOT the guarantee) to succeed.

I'm glad I live here because no where in the world am i more free.

Off my soapbx,

Dr.Rob
 
Currently 20% of the Swiss poulation are immigrants.

Their "big" immigrant problem is with Turkish immigrants who are responsible for a dis-proportionate amount of crime in the country.

I personally think that certain areas of the US have become "enclaves" already and even if the borders were closed to economic migrants (with the exception of professionally qualified people who already have a job offer in the US), it's basically too late in many respects. The Nation of Islam are promoting their cause of having two states (Georgia and South Carolina I believe) set aside for their followers, to be run as a separate part of the US under their jurisdiction. There is only one place this will lead ultimately, civil unrest on a large scale, maybe Y2K will be a trigger maybe it will be in 2010, who knows, but something will give sooner or later. We like it here in Pa, but we have our eyes on Oregon as our ultimate bolt hole, those guys seem to know whats what, nice place too. Let's hope it never happens, I hate packing ;)

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Mike H
 
A more broad reason for the violence in our country is simply because we allow it. We ENABLE this behavior because we, as a society accept this behavior. There is not sufficient or inevitable consequences for bad behavior or law-breaking.

Look at our youth today. Many parents just a)don't care or b)don't know how to raise a child. They can stick food in his mouth and shove him on the bus for school but that's the extent of shaping his behavior. Fight in school - can't expell them, that would violate their rights. Disrupt the classes, can't suspend him - that would deny little johnny his education. If you DO suspend him, mommy and daddy show up with their lawyer and ask "whay are you picking on my little angel" - thus further enabling this behavior.

Why can't we throw these types out of the schools? Because the law says we can't.

Time to change the law - if we the people are willing to demand it. But, we probably won't. We are now in a society of "no responsibility" - not "personal responsibility". </rant>

CMOS

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Join GOA, NRA, LEAA and vote.
 
To throw fuelon the fire; I support the theory that a racial homogenous society will have less crime and violence than a mixed society. The 'Great Emmancipator" himself on pondering the future with a country full of newly freed slaves stated that "two races can not share one continent in peace". Old "Honest Abe" was supportive of plans to repatriate all blacks back to their homelands. He was shot before he could follow through with any post war plans.

A prime example of a society that was homogenous and enjoyed a low crime rate and in now a polyglot nation and has an upwardly spiraling crime rate is the UK. Compare their crime rates from 1950 to 1970. It is startling to see what racial mixing will cause.

I do not blame mixed society for all of our ills. We have rouge el;ements in all groups. Take the British soccer fans (primarily white). Where did this type of violence come from? I do not have an answer to that.
 
So far, Dr. Rob, is the only one that has nailed it on the head. The reason why ghettos, inner cities, etc., are primarily minorites, is because it is the minorites that DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY. Over sixty years of post-Civil War genetic reductionism and racial discrimination (not to mention the 160 years before that) have economically suppressed minorities. Now I am not saying that we should mandate Affirmitive Action programs or anything like that (I am against it), but we must realize that with such economic disparity combined with a culture that glorifies violence can easily explain our high violent crime rate.

At the same time, we also need to remember (before we get too depressed) that here in America, we have the most socially mobile society in the world. Nowhere else can someone on the bottom rung make it into the elite in a single lifetime, if his luck is good and he works hard. Things need to improve, sure, but I believe that we are headed in the right direction.

Race really has nothing to do with it, as it doesn't even exist scientifically. It is a social construction. What it DOES boil down to is economics and racial attitudes.

Tim

Now, back to your local programming...
 
The differance is not raceial percentages, but instead pre-packaged, self-victimizing artificial culture. Her in the US we see a hostile anti American artificial culture every day. This is the culture, created by political and media groups, that makes one beleive that all of his problems are caused by THE MAN, or an enemy race of some kind. One can see those that buy into this artificial culture every day. They generaly where pants that are unusualy baggy and low, hats that are backward, and feel that laws do not apply to them because they've been so wronged by society. This hostile, anti-patriotic culture is not acted out by a single race. We can see people of several differant skin colors behaving in this fashion. I've pondered this culture for quite some time. I beleive it was begun by the opertunistic late comers to the civil rights struggle, trying to make a career for themselves by adopting a cause.(people like Jesse Jackson)The same people who favor racial quotas for the hiring of employees. The unspoken theory being that all employers are racist.
 
CDF,

While I understand and agree with some of your sentiments, be careful of what and who you label as opportunistic groups. Blacks and women were labelled as such during the Civil Rights movement, and while there are groups trying to receive special "favors" from their minority status, there are also legitimate concerns as well. Let us not think that the problem with discrimination is over. It is not. The trick is to determine what is a valid concern and what is not.

Tim
 
What is a concern is that the wrongdoers in our society sit back and laugh while the corrupt officials who preside over us pass more and more laws whose effect is to harass the good people of this country, whatever their color.

As for our judicial system having "soft" sentences, I don't believe that to be true. Sentences seem pretty severe to me, we also have the death penalty in most states where most other countries do not, I've even heard the US described as adolescent for having such strict laws. The punishments don't seem to make any difference, the criminals seem to think more about immediate risk than the potential consequences of committing a crime. To me that means greeting my would be burglar or street mugger with a handgun, a right I believe will soon be taken away from me. The Government has already denied me those last 3 or 4 rounds in the magazine that could have meant the difference between surviving a lethal force encounter or being the victim of one. The enemies to our freedom and safety are many colored on the outside but inside they are all the same color, yellow.


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Mike H
 
Mrs. sbryce here. This thread was fascinating until I got frustrated that so many are missing a main point: the main thing missing in America today which is (by its absence) is the greatest contributor of the escalating crime rate in America is (drum roll please!) Judeo-Christian values. The Bible, if you will.

In a country where mamas (or their boyfriends) paying for people to kill their babies funds several industries, where divorce is "no-fault" and the jerk doesn't get the blame so it's easier to split, where young people are treated as "teenagers" and dogs in heat instead of young adults, where dads don't stick around to teach their children the worth of family life (and how to shoot!), do you really expect crime to be low? Self-indulgence is permitted, encouraged on every tv commercial, stroked by lawyers out for their cut, and financed by credit card and mortgage companies. So self-indulgence of slightly different variety is fine, isn't it?? That's the logic presented in our country today, from the decisions of the Supreme Court to the lifestyle in the White House (let's all groan together) to the public school classroom.

Self-restraint is a vanishing art. The reason for it is banned from mention in public places. I'm just waiting for the ACLU to re-write the Declaration of Independence to cut Him out. There is a God to whom we will be accountable one day for our actions this day.

Poor people (of which I am one currently) can use self-restraint and act rightly. Poor people today in America live a much better and cleaner life than kings did 200 years ago. We have showers, running clean water, refrigerators, etc. But we want more, more, and intrest-free for 90 days. If we have to take it forcefully, guess we gotta, to feed the appetite whetted by what we see on that boob tube.
 
DrRob-

"We are all americans, wheather you got here with the Mayflower or you got your citizenship yesterday"

Being American is a mentality. Doesn't matter how long you have been in America, and actually it does not even matter if you are even in America in some cases. People are welcome to come here and be Americans at any time.

"It pains me to see post like well when i was 16 i was held at knife point by this BLUE man, or my girlfriend was assaulted by a PURPLE guy... what the HELL does the color of his skin have to do with the fact that a crime was commited??? "

How many times you been stabbed? How many times you been carjacked? How many times you been mugged? Okay, then shut the hell up until you have been there. Ask a woman who was raped by any race of person or any person with a certain characteristic and she will tell you that from that day on she fears that type of person. Ask someone that has been accosted by tattoed bikers a few times, and ask them if they get nervous around bikers with tattoos? If you have been through violent crimes by a certain type of person, especially in repeated incidents, trust me, the next time you are in a similar situation, your heart will jump and you will sweat. That is human nature. You learn from your past experiences, and some things leave enough of an impression on you that you live with them for the rest of your life whether you want to or not.

Your theory that most crime is black on black is nice, but most statistics are contrived, and that one may not account for every variable: maybe it is simply because non-blacks are smart enough to stay out of black neighborhoods. (Oops, did I say that? That was very un-PC!). Okay, let me say that in a more PC way: Maybe it is because, as I described before, people tend to stay within their own cultural neighborhood. Of course most crime stays in that neighborhood, often against their own culture, simply because people of their own culture are the nearest targets.
My experience has been pretty simple: How come I have lived in white neighborhoods all my life, some of them very bad, and I have *never* been the victim of a violent crime from a white person? Set foot in a nearby black neighborhood once in a while, and I have had plenty. Sorry, that's just the facts from what I have experienced, and no one can have experiences like that and not let it affect them.
Don't get me wrong, as I am sure you will, I don't think that all black people are criminals by any means. But, the kind that dress like street thugs make me nervous, because they fit the description of the kind that I have been accosted by before. I don't think that will ever change because it has been engrained into me by experience.

To answer your last rant, cultural diversity is great in it's own right, but let's not forget that this is America. We have a culture too. Some people want to move here and take a peice of the pie, but without any intent of becoming an American or giving back to the country. Everyone comes here and wants to make this country like their old one. Many of them come here with the intent to make a few bucks, or get a good education, and then go back to their country. They have no intent on being Americans. This is America, love it or leave it.
And I, might add, NO ONE said that having "little mexico" down the street is necessarily a bad thing. You are so quick to jump on your self-righteous soap box that you immediatly assumed the worst in what I said. Re-read it, no one said it was bad. All I said was that is was a fact that people segregate themselves, no matter how much we all pretend like America is a great mix of cultures, it is not, it is a heterogeneous mottling, like water spots on oil, of different cultures claiming their own little areas and staying within those bounds whenever possible. Once again, I never said whether this was good or bad. All I said was that it is a fact that people like to stick to their own races and cultures, and that the myths of everyone living together in harmony is not happening, and none of these people want it to happen, and such thing only exists in politicians speeches. That is reality.
You are so pumped up on your self-righteous liberal views and so bent on shoving them down my throat, that you didn't even read what I said, you just assumed immedailty that I am a racist bigot. Typical. That is exactly why I stated that I would probably be branded just for bringing up the topic, even though I didn't even express views, just stated some observations.

I am glad that we can have candid conversation, but you need to read things for what they say, not what you think they are saying.

I will agree with one thing you said though, and that is that poverty makes for high crime rates. I do not understand nor follow such a path though, because I am well below the levels of poverty right now on the charts and came from a poor background. But, libraries are free, schools are free, community college is practically free, buses run for people that don't have cars, and this is America where jobs are available for those that work. So, while there is no doubt that poverty is linked to crime, I do not allow anyone to use that as an excuse, because I am pulling myself out of the muck, and I expect no less of anyone else than I do of myself.
Lastly, not only does America offer more opportunity to a poor person than any other country in the world (with a litttle effort, anyone can make a very decent income), but our poorest people are the richest poor people anywhere in the world. Our people in poverty live like royalty compared to some countries. Life just ain't that bad in America, no matter how much people whine and use their "situation" as an excuse to commit crime.

Mrs. sbryce:

How could anyone disagree with you? Our daily lives in America are living proof to anyone that looks around.
 
OK kids listen up...

We are not Swiss. Personally I don't give a rats @ss. Its irrelevent. The facts are, we Americans can never ever be compared to the Swiss or Israelis or what have you....different variables, different factors went into our make up....

Apples and Oranges....get it?

Throw in your race, your religious, your economic variables and its still all BS speculation....and it means nothing. Not one single culture on earth can be directly measured and compared against another.


I am American, I don't want to be Swiss and don't care.
Ya'll are trying to make justifications. That is an infamnia. Weenies

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
I am Army.I have no problem approaching a group of Africans,or Mexicans,yes they do hang together.We are here because we share interests,and asking direcetions.I would not do that off base.I wear a 1911,but that would be asking to skin it.

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[This message has been edited by ghostsix (edited November 13, 1999).]
 
What is important to our Second Amendment and our entire “American” way of life
is values.
- Not a specific religion or non-religion.
- Not a specific race or ethnic group.

Nobody has a monopoly on decency, consideration, fairness, kindness, logic
or the opposite of these traits. And TFL will not be the place for such a debate.

This thread is closed.
 
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