the truth of militec-1
- Thread starter priler
- Start date
Salt water corrosion test.
Note that of the 12 lubricants tested the Militec stuff came in almost dead last. (11th place)
http://www.slip2000.com/saltwatertest.html
Needless to say, the referenced test is an advertisement for Slip 2000. It hooked me. Had to try some.
Note that of the 12 lubricants tested the Militec stuff came in almost dead last. (11th place)
http://www.slip2000.com/saltwatertest.html
Needless to say, the referenced test is an advertisement for Slip 2000. It hooked me. Had to try some.
Militec-1 works for me and I buy the stuff by the case: I have used it for about 20 years. Militec-1 has kept my personal guns clean and rust free in the field: Some of my guns have been stored for three years while I worked overseas with no problems.
I am a multi-tasked military advisor/instructor who uses Militec-1 on military weapons to .50 caliber and it works very well. The saltwater spray test is not applicable to large deserts.
I am a multi-tasked military advisor/instructor who uses Militec-1 on military weapons to .50 caliber and it works very well. The saltwater spray test is not applicable to large deserts.
N.H. Yankee
New member
I use Tetra gun grease and oil as well as TW25. I have used Miltec-1 and while I find it to be a good product, I feel for the average shooter/hunter there are many lubes out there that will do as well. We are not in a hjostile environment involved in a full auto firefight not having the time to clean and lube.
I remember when breakfree was the endall of lubes. We got it in small ounce bottles, I used LSA medium grade weapons lube. The federal supply system is snafu. Order it one week and get the real deal, order a week later and get a SUITABLE SUB! I always tried to order (sole source) and often had to write a letter of justification. I was in charge of LGT ( logistics transportation) and asst chief of LG (base supply) and getting what you really wanted could be a challenge.
Eventually we got Visa cards for local purchase but had to be careful when an IG came in as you could get dinged for bypassing the supply system. The military has too many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to purchase. You get idiots in the budget office who scream to the CC that you spend money downtown when you could get it on a NSN cheaper. I found there to be a lot of counterfeit products as we would get messages quite frequently. This is what happens when you get multiple suppliers of the same product under the same NSN. Like the rolling stones song goes " you can't always get what you want " that should be the theme song for the federal supply system!
I remember when breakfree was the endall of lubes. We got it in small ounce bottles, I used LSA medium grade weapons lube. The federal supply system is snafu. Order it one week and get the real deal, order a week later and get a SUITABLE SUB! I always tried to order (sole source) and often had to write a letter of justification. I was in charge of LGT ( logistics transportation) and asst chief of LG (base supply) and getting what you really wanted could be a challenge.
Eventually we got Visa cards for local purchase but had to be careful when an IG came in as you could get dinged for bypassing the supply system. The military has too many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to purchase. You get idiots in the budget office who scream to the CC that you spend money downtown when you could get it on a NSN cheaper. I found there to be a lot of counterfeit products as we would get messages quite frequently. This is what happens when you get multiple suppliers of the same product under the same NSN. Like the rolling stones song goes " you can't always get what you want " that should be the theme song for the federal supply system!
Having been given an extensive work-related tour of Defense Supply Center Richmond three different times in the past 25 years, I can see where there could be a problem. They have lots of stuff - including a union election one time I was there - and those monster-sized warehouses with the sky-climbing fork lifts were incredible.
I wonder if they've upgraded their inventory computers yet.
John
I wonder if they've upgraded their inventory computers yet.
John
But it is part of the requirements for the mil testing since not all fighting is in "large deserts."
The Navy will not approve it since it has chlorine content (either on purpose or by accident).
Chlorine containing lubricants are a well known source of long term corrosion.
oldcspsarge
New member
Read it all and digest it for what it is. The Military may need to revise it's standards for firearms lubricants.
This fight in DOD has become very personal between a high ranking command staff person who loves CLP and Defense Logistics.
In the real world....you might as well say 3 in 1 oil. There is nothing that cleans, lubricates and protects, that excels in all 3 functions as they are functionally different processes.
A formulation designed to clean, loosens and raises up contaminants off the base metal to clean. Lubrication to be most successful needs to bind with the metal in some manner to achieve and continue the function of lubrication.
Protection in a salt water exposure tests is another realm .
In the sand wars, they are dealing with having a functional lubricant, that continues to work in that heat and does not attract and hold that fine talcum powder like sand.
Spec ops were authorized Militec because it worked. The field troops bitched to their Congressman they were being discriminated against, being forced to use CLP which didn't work well in the desert AO. Militec was then authorized for everybody...and then SHTF !
I have used Militec for about 10 years after seeing their demo @ SHOT Show.
I have used it in milling machines, lathes, air compressors and air tools for lubrication. I have used on M-16's, FAL's & MP-5's with great results, superior to other products available.
Use what works best for you. There are many choices. Some I see cause problems in guns...like greases and WD-40. Some work just fine.
The key is too much of any lubricant in a firearm is BAD.
I like Militec as it does what I need it to do...lubricate well, with a minimal presence..no run off or drip to keep something functioning. One or 2 drops on a Q tip and you can lubricate an entire firearm.
Snake Oil it is not.....perfect it is not...but it comes close to the mark !
All the Federal LEO Agencies use it and are well pleased. Something must be right with it !
my .02 from my experience.
This fight in DOD has become very personal between a high ranking command staff person who loves CLP and Defense Logistics.
In the real world....you might as well say 3 in 1 oil. There is nothing that cleans, lubricates and protects, that excels in all 3 functions as they are functionally different processes.
A formulation designed to clean, loosens and raises up contaminants off the base metal to clean. Lubrication to be most successful needs to bind with the metal in some manner to achieve and continue the function of lubrication.
Protection in a salt water exposure tests is another realm .
In the sand wars, they are dealing with having a functional lubricant, that continues to work in that heat and does not attract and hold that fine talcum powder like sand.
Spec ops were authorized Militec because it worked. The field troops bitched to their Congressman they were being discriminated against, being forced to use CLP which didn't work well in the desert AO. Militec was then authorized for everybody...and then SHTF !
I have used Militec for about 10 years after seeing their demo @ SHOT Show.
I have used it in milling machines, lathes, air compressors and air tools for lubrication. I have used on M-16's, FAL's & MP-5's with great results, superior to other products available.
Use what works best for you. There are many choices. Some I see cause problems in guns...like greases and WD-40. Some work just fine.
The key is too much of any lubricant in a firearm is BAD.
I like Militec as it does what I need it to do...lubricate well, with a minimal presence..no run off or drip to keep something functioning. One or 2 drops on a Q tip and you can lubricate an entire firearm.
Snake Oil it is not.....perfect it is not...but it comes close to the mark !
All the Federal LEO Agencies use it and are well pleased. Something must be right with it !
my .02 from my experience.
Sarge,
An excellent point about the inherent conflicts between the tasks demanded of the product. The best cleaners penetrate, but penetration is fastest with something far too thin and low in viscosity and small in molecular size to be a really good lubricant. The best protectants you can get, be they rust inhibitors, like LPS-3, or a simple mechanical barrier like Boeshield T-9, or even Rig or Cosmoline, are all either wax-like or heavy grease-like substances. All too thick and high in viscosity to be a good lube for the speed of operation of a semi or full automatic weapon. (They aren't much help packed heavily into a bolt rifle action or a revolver for that matter.) The general purpose products almost have to be jack's of all trades, and masters of none.
I guess the dry lubes are an attempt to work around that? The Teflon in CLP is an example. The reason I don't use it in a rifle bore is that back when bore and bullet coatings were first becoming the rage some high Teflon content products came out that people jumped on for burnishing into their bores. Subsequent testing, though, showed adverse effects. As the barrel heats up the Teflon properties change and the result was groups opening up. It takes something more temperature resistant like moly or hex form boron nitride, or boron oxide to withstand that. The molybdenum phosphate coating from Shooter's Solutions Moly Fusion seems to work well and hold up for a good while. It also offers some slight additional corrosion resistance, but that's a bonus when it works out and is not an advertised property. It is a conversion coating like Parkerizing, only much thinner and leaves the surface looking and feeling waxed, but it is tough and will last a thousand rounds or so in a barrel. The web site has a testimonial form someone who claims to have treated the inside of a sizing die with it and never needed sizing lube thereafter, but I never worked up the courage to test that claim.
An excellent point about the inherent conflicts between the tasks demanded of the product. The best cleaners penetrate, but penetration is fastest with something far too thin and low in viscosity and small in molecular size to be a really good lubricant. The best protectants you can get, be they rust inhibitors, like LPS-3, or a simple mechanical barrier like Boeshield T-9, or even Rig or Cosmoline, are all either wax-like or heavy grease-like substances. All too thick and high in viscosity to be a good lube for the speed of operation of a semi or full automatic weapon. (They aren't much help packed heavily into a bolt rifle action or a revolver for that matter.) The general purpose products almost have to be jack's of all trades, and masters of none.
I guess the dry lubes are an attempt to work around that? The Teflon in CLP is an example. The reason I don't use it in a rifle bore is that back when bore and bullet coatings were first becoming the rage some high Teflon content products came out that people jumped on for burnishing into their bores. Subsequent testing, though, showed adverse effects. As the barrel heats up the Teflon properties change and the result was groups opening up. It takes something more temperature resistant like moly or hex form boron nitride, or boron oxide to withstand that. The molybdenum phosphate coating from Shooter's Solutions Moly Fusion seems to work well and hold up for a good while. It also offers some slight additional corrosion resistance, but that's a bonus when it works out and is not an advertised property. It is a conversion coating like Parkerizing, only much thinner and leaves the surface looking and feeling waxed, but it is tough and will last a thousand rounds or so in a barrel. The web site has a testimonial form someone who claims to have treated the inside of a sizing die with it and never needed sizing lube thereafter, but I never worked up the courage to test that claim.
sarge and unclenick,i have to disagree with both of you.if you think the military is not aware of what its choice can do,including it's limitations,then you are truly fooling yourselves. perhaps you should both lend your expertise to them,so they can benefit from your tribologic wizardry.
"this fight in DOD has become very personal between a high ranking command staff person who loves CLP and Defence Logistics." <---can you prove this? can you give us a link so we may study the matter? were you involved,and if you somehow were,do you think we should believe you more or believe you less? do you have a stake in the matter or with militec of the choices you have made?
while i believe there is truth that a do-all product will not perform as good overall as separating the three fuctions of cleaning,lubing and protecting,that is mostly based on my needs as a non-combatant. however,if you think one single product can not do this,it shows greatly your lack of knowledge and understanding how this works.
guess what? if you have been using a good quality motor oil in your car,that is exactly what has been going on in it's engine. a good quality motor oil can,#1-suspend and disperse contaminants and build-up from both the type and qualities of the base stock used and/or from the additive packedge applied to it. #2-form a bond with the metal by using electrostatic forces(and many other terms used) to bond low friction molecules to stressed metal surfaces to create low friction and retention that can be there even before oil pressure has build,protecting your engine at start-up. these characteristics can come from the additive package or from the base stock oils used depending on it's qualities. #3-motor oils can have high protective qualities too,both by either having added corrosion inhibiting chemicals and by film strength which offer surface and parts rust and wear protection,including not allowing acids to form....again, and/or through the additive package or the base stock. sometimes,on the higher quality ones,ester oils are added to the base stock PAO synthetic oil,to improve its capabilities because they have higher natural abilities for cleaning,film strength and surface protection,especially polyo-esters.(which is used in turbojet engines)...not to mention a myriad of chemicals that can also be added.
not all motor oils are the same though regardless if some people think they are.
furthermore,if you think that for a soldier hauling around three separate bottles and having to perform three separate jobs to maintain his weapon functioning reliably is wiser,then i also have to disagree with that.
the point of applying tefon to the bore is irrelavent and not the arguement,not to mention certain military weapons having chrome-linned barrels.
again,your just justifying militecs' arguement that our military is up to no good or naferious in some way and killing our people simply because they didn't get what they wanted. that is simply NOT TRUE.
will they find something even better in the future? i'm sure they will,they test when something else comes along and when something works good they add it to there inventory chain....but it has to meet there criteria not yours or mines.
you did read the part were they tested militec-1 in live fire and other tests,right?
as far as certain soldier/s complaining about,..whatever,that's what soldiers do.they also complain when they shoot and hit the enemy and the enemy doesn't instantly drop like a load of bricks or disintegrate into a million pieces. soldiers are also just that,soldiers....and tend to be real good at what they do,killing the enemy,but it doesn't make them experts in all fields. i can think of about a hundrend different reasons why a soldier will complain about a product there given,get something else,and believe it works better,not realising they have done something different that was the main contributor.
like i said before,militec-1 is a fine lubricant.in fact,it started out life as an oil additive and remains just that.it's main purpose was to increase the capabilities of motor oil,probably mineral based oil moreso,but they apparently wanted to define it as more than that somewhere along the line.i'm sure it has lots of uses,including a weapon lubricant(for which i have actually tried it) but as a stand-alone product for the military,i think it leaves alot to be desired.
"this fight in DOD has become very personal between a high ranking command staff person who loves CLP and Defence Logistics." <---can you prove this? can you give us a link so we may study the matter? were you involved,and if you somehow were,do you think we should believe you more or believe you less? do you have a stake in the matter or with militec of the choices you have made?
while i believe there is truth that a do-all product will not perform as good overall as separating the three fuctions of cleaning,lubing and protecting,that is mostly based on my needs as a non-combatant. however,if you think one single product can not do this,it shows greatly your lack of knowledge and understanding how this works.
guess what? if you have been using a good quality motor oil in your car,that is exactly what has been going on in it's engine. a good quality motor oil can,#1-suspend and disperse contaminants and build-up from both the type and qualities of the base stock used and/or from the additive packedge applied to it. #2-form a bond with the metal by using electrostatic forces(and many other terms used) to bond low friction molecules to stressed metal surfaces to create low friction and retention that can be there even before oil pressure has build,protecting your engine at start-up. these characteristics can come from the additive package or from the base stock oils used depending on it's qualities. #3-motor oils can have high protective qualities too,both by either having added corrosion inhibiting chemicals and by film strength which offer surface and parts rust and wear protection,including not allowing acids to form....again, and/or through the additive package or the base stock. sometimes,on the higher quality ones,ester oils are added to the base stock PAO synthetic oil,to improve its capabilities because they have higher natural abilities for cleaning,film strength and surface protection,especially polyo-esters.(which is used in turbojet engines)...not to mention a myriad of chemicals that can also be added.
not all motor oils are the same though regardless if some people think they are.
furthermore,if you think that for a soldier hauling around three separate bottles and having to perform three separate jobs to maintain his weapon functioning reliably is wiser,then i also have to disagree with that.
the point of applying tefon to the bore is irrelavent and not the arguement,not to mention certain military weapons having chrome-linned barrels.
again,your just justifying militecs' arguement that our military is up to no good or naferious in some way and killing our people simply because they didn't get what they wanted. that is simply NOT TRUE.
will they find something even better in the future? i'm sure they will,they test when something else comes along and when something works good they add it to there inventory chain....but it has to meet there criteria not yours or mines.
you did read the part were they tested militec-1 in live fire and other tests,right?
as far as certain soldier/s complaining about,..whatever,that's what soldiers do.they also complain when they shoot and hit the enemy and the enemy doesn't instantly drop like a load of bricks or disintegrate into a million pieces. soldiers are also just that,soldiers....and tend to be real good at what they do,killing the enemy,but it doesn't make them experts in all fields. i can think of about a hundrend different reasons why a soldier will complain about a product there given,get something else,and believe it works better,not realising they have done something different that was the main contributor.
like i said before,militec-1 is a fine lubricant.in fact,it started out life as an oil additive and remains just that.it's main purpose was to increase the capabilities of motor oil,probably mineral based oil moreso,but they apparently wanted to define it as more than that somewhere along the line.i'm sure it has lots of uses,including a weapon lubricant(for which i have actually tried it) but as a stand-alone product for the military,i think it leaves alot to be desired.
i should have also mention that,imo,as a weapon lubricant,militec-1 is not really "snake oil" as i define that,although i can give specific reasons why i prefer something else ,in either dry form as they want you to apply it and as a wet lube....but if it's claims are to be believed and specifically what they suggest in regards to our military,then it IS very much snake oil.
also,a few days after a wrote the first post,i started remembering this issue being shown in the news and how the military was issuing a poorly performing lubricant to the troops and death occuring because of it.i didn't know then but i do know now who was in part responsible for this. THAT is bad form and pure snake oil,if you ask me.they should be ashamed especially considering their is proof to the contrary.
also,a few days after a wrote the first post,i started remembering this issue being shown in the news and how the military was issuing a poorly performing lubricant to the troops and death occuring because of it.i didn't know then but i do know now who was in part responsible for this. THAT is bad form and pure snake oil,if you ask me.they should be ashamed especially considering their is proof to the contrary.
The military has defined standards that products must meet.
Complaining and wining to your congress-critter when your product fails to meet the defined specs is not going to get you very far in the long run.
Congress-critters change, and when the military sees the benefactor that rammed something down their throat gone, the product will be gone shortly.
Complaining and wining to your congress-critter when your product fails to meet the defined specs is not going to get you very far in the long run.
Congress-critters change, and when the military sees the benefactor that rammed something down their throat gone, the product will be gone shortly.