I like getting a table at the end of either side of the range also --- less noise, less chance of being muzzle swept --- Yet...what upsets me the most at the range, is what the late Louis Awerbuck called in a SWAT magazine OP-ED article: "Lord of the Range" types, who come to the range thinking that they are above the range rules, and can perform any tacti-cool position; even though it is an unsafe maneuver on that particular gun range and against the range rules.
The shooter world is often their worst enemy
- Thread starter nightowl64
- Start date
nightowl64
Inactive
I did...but it is only a wish...people have to choose themselves.
nightowl64
Inactive
As I said..me too..not that I'm not friendly because one of the reasons I like to go to a public range is too associate with other shooters if the occasion arises. I'm fortunate..we have a very big range north of Phoenix. And through the years the occasional nimrod causes the rangemasters to bark at them for their carelessness and/or bad attitude.
One can be the example they feel they should be, a steward of the community. And that is all one can do. I think if your making an effort to be presentable to others than what your saying/suggesting is commendable.
one of the things that really digs into me is the shooters that leave all their trash (spent cases, targets, illegal targets like TV's, orange clay pigeons, shoot trees, etc. etc....) on public lands. In my area this is a huge problem and some places have been closed down because of it. Hows that for being your own worst enemy?
nightowl64
Inactive
That has been a problem here in the Arizona desert...it often results in parcels of land posted against public shooting. Some people say I should embrace all shooters...no way.
I think it was Thomas Jefferson said "If it neither robs my pocket or breaks my leg...."
On the surface,that is the here and now tangibles.If you are drinking and shooting,being reckless or destructive,breaking the 4 rules,poaching....You are infringing on my rights,my safety,and it is not about your freedom.
But then there is another layer.It has to do with a sense of responsibility that honors that freedom.
If we do not self regulate ,we will be regulated.At a very basic level,we get potty trained.There is a certain decorum about "doing it right".If we operate outside the control limits,we will be sanctioned.Impulse control,etc.
So,yeah,lets not start forest fires,even if tracers are cool.Maybe not on the Tannerite in an inappropriate setting.
Sometimes,as a gun owner who,like it or not represents all gun owners,choose keeping your mouth shut over saying something really stupid.
The tacticool thing?I don't really care.If you want to wear what you are training for,that can make sense,I guess.
If you are training for jealous husbands or thug pimps I'd rather you wore more than your Speedo rig.
Actually outdoors I find some of the surplus gear practical and economical.Comfortable.I like VN era Jungle fatigues.If I need to carry a canteen or two,maybe a sidearm,some old webgear works pretty well.
But I'm not a Veteran.There is a Respect thing,IMO.It is not quite the same as "Stolen Valor" ...but there is a difference between taking advantage of good,economical gear and playing video game fantasy dress up doll.
You can go ahead and do it,I don't want to regulate you..but I gotta wonder...?
Not a whole lot of Veterans do that tacticool thing.It seems Kid Game.
And,the world is big enough for Cowboy Action Shooters to enjoy their game,too.
I think all of us might consider the ambassador role we fill.Each gun owner,in away,represents all gun owners.
I don't know about you,but,for me,we all deal with any number of social issues.They would be off topic here.I can be quite comfortable shrugging my shoulders,andsaying "Different Strokes".No problem.
But I do get put off by the folks who push it to the point of being "In your face"
These peole are not about just living in an authentic fashion,within their own boundaries.They choose to invade MY world,and impose their agenda on Me.That can make my jaws tight.They do not make tolerance a two way street.
IMO,shooters would be well advised to recognize what they find off putting themselves,and apply it to being a gun owner.
Wearing an AK47 to buy Oreos at the Target store comes to mind.
On the surface,that is the here and now tangibles.If you are drinking and shooting,being reckless or destructive,breaking the 4 rules,poaching....You are infringing on my rights,my safety,and it is not about your freedom.
But then there is another layer.It has to do with a sense of responsibility that honors that freedom.
If we do not self regulate ,we will be regulated.At a very basic level,we get potty trained.There is a certain decorum about "doing it right".If we operate outside the control limits,we will be sanctioned.Impulse control,etc.
So,yeah,lets not start forest fires,even if tracers are cool.Maybe not on the Tannerite in an inappropriate setting.
Sometimes,as a gun owner who,like it or not represents all gun owners,choose keeping your mouth shut over saying something really stupid.
The tacticool thing?I don't really care.If you want to wear what you are training for,that can make sense,I guess.
If you are training for jealous husbands or thug pimps I'd rather you wore more than your Speedo rig.
Actually outdoors I find some of the surplus gear practical and economical.Comfortable.I like VN era Jungle fatigues.If I need to carry a canteen or two,maybe a sidearm,some old webgear works pretty well.
But I'm not a Veteran.There is a Respect thing,IMO.It is not quite the same as "Stolen Valor" ...but there is a difference between taking advantage of good,economical gear and playing video game fantasy dress up doll.
You can go ahead and do it,I don't want to regulate you..but I gotta wonder...?
Not a whole lot of Veterans do that tacticool thing.It seems Kid Game.
And,the world is big enough for Cowboy Action Shooters to enjoy their game,too.
I think all of us might consider the ambassador role we fill.Each gun owner,in away,represents all gun owners.
I don't know about you,but,for me,we all deal with any number of social issues.They would be off topic here.I can be quite comfortable shrugging my shoulders,andsaying "Different Strokes".No problem.
But I do get put off by the folks who push it to the point of being "In your face"
These peole are not about just living in an authentic fashion,within their own boundaries.They choose to invade MY world,and impose their agenda on Me.That can make my jaws tight.They do not make tolerance a two way street.
IMO,shooters would be well advised to recognize what they find off putting themselves,and apply it to being a gun owner.
Wearing an AK47 to buy Oreos at the Target store comes to mind.
Here's another thought to consider, outside of actually unsafe and dangerous behavior, (which we all condemn) aren't you already buying into the gun hater's mantra when you are concerned about people carrying guns at rallies (to make a political point), or the supposed "bad image" you think some gun owners project?
It seems as if you are buying into the idea that guns, and the display of such, is a bad thing, and people who's personal sense of style you happen to disagree with, are making things worse!
Things CANNOT be made worse! At least, not in terms of people's attitudes. The only "worse" thing is having the gun haters actually having the legal power to enforce their bigoted fantasies of what would make a "perfect world".
If your target audience is the undecided, I will admit that there are people who play directly to the worst stereotypical images. OF course, this is also true of any groups of people, be they a group through shared common interests, or some biological trait. Good and bad in everything, and everyone.
You cannot predict how any of the "undecided" will eventually decide. As an example, I know a couple of different people, who suffered the loss of a loved one in a crime. One blames the gun, and will have nothing to do with them. The other blames the person who pulled the trigger, and is actually a firearms enthusiast.
If you feel a need to change your lifestyle because of what someone else is afraid of, go right ahead. But don't ask, expect, or demand that I change mine. I don't have the same fears that you apparently do.
It seems as if you are buying into the idea that guns, and the display of such, is a bad thing, and people who's personal sense of style you happen to disagree with, are making things worse!
Things CANNOT be made worse! At least, not in terms of people's attitudes. The only "worse" thing is having the gun haters actually having the legal power to enforce their bigoted fantasies of what would make a "perfect world".
If your target audience is the undecided, I will admit that there are people who play directly to the worst stereotypical images. OF course, this is also true of any groups of people, be they a group through shared common interests, or some biological trait. Good and bad in everything, and everyone.
You cannot predict how any of the "undecided" will eventually decide. As an example, I know a couple of different people, who suffered the loss of a loved one in a crime. One blames the gun, and will have nothing to do with them. The other blames the person who pulled the trigger, and is actually a firearms enthusiast.
If you feel a need to change your lifestyle because of what someone else is afraid of, go right ahead. But don't ask, expect, or demand that I change mine. I don't have the same fears that you apparently do.
nightowl64
Inactive
I dont know what specific fears you are indicating..but after a quick look it appears that gun-owning voters are the minority in the US. Image does matter.
nightowl64
Inactive
maybe a Dr. Pepper between shooting rounds out on the desert
If you don't wear tactical gear at the range, how are you going to practice tactical mag changes?
It's better to learn how the stock fits you on the range, then to better learn how it fits you out on the street.
Though I think it's funny when a shooter looks at another shooter's actions and gear, and then asks him..."Are you at war with the world?" {Pun intended}
It's better to learn how the stock fits you on the range, then to better learn how it fits you out on the street.
Though I think it's funny when a shooter looks at another shooter's actions and gear, and then asks him..."Are you at war with the world?" {Pun intended}
I haveno more problem with folks who dress up in tactical gear and go to the range than I do folks who dress up like batman and go to comicon or paint themselves yellow and green to go to a green bay game. I laugh but it doesn't bother me. The guy who is wearing jeans and a t shirt who violates basic safety rules, him I have a problem with. I prefer to be the example that I want others to act like, polite, helpful, not negative. Everytime my sister in law starts on an anti gun rant and I remind her that I would happily let her or her kids shoot any thing I own with my supervision I get the "it's not you its the crazy ones that scare me". Be that example and show the rest of the world that basic normal people exist. BTW I am about as redneck as it gets and had more urban types show up at hunts with a few cold ones tucked in their shooting gear than us rednecks. We are too busy shooting to drink, but will happily have a couple afterward.
nightowl64
Inactive
Have to admit that made me smile...touche.
We probably could "purge" our community if gun ownership was limited to the "right" people, gun ownership depended on club membership and adhering to all sorts of petty rules and regulations and dress codes, etc. I have also
noted that too many people-starting with us-tend to see the "shooting community" as a monolithic whole with a clearly defined ethos and code of conduct. And enforcement powers.
People who show up with all the "tacticool" gear, dressed like ninjas, but can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside and have a physique like the Michelin Tire Man or the Pillsbury Dough Boy-since when did making a fool of yourself become a crime?
And as Tonto said to the Lone Ranger when they were surrounded by hostile Indians-
"What you mean, we ?"
noted that too many people-starting with us-tend to see the "shooting community" as a monolithic whole with a clearly defined ethos and code of conduct. And enforcement powers.
People who show up with all the "tacticool" gear, dressed like ninjas, but can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside and have a physique like the Michelin Tire Man or the Pillsbury Dough Boy-since when did making a fool of yourself become a crime?
And as Tonto said to the Lone Ranger when they were surrounded by hostile Indians-
"What you mean, we ?"
armoredman
New member
nightowl, one of your points is being addressed with the "Trigger Trash" campaign - you've seen the billboards on I-10.
I wear BDU pants sometimes - very comfortable, and the extra pockets come in handy. I wear Blackhack boots, lightweight, comfortable, good for shopping or hunting, and I hate buying lots of shoes/boots - I leave that to my wife. I also wear big t-shirts in summer time, better to hide the full size pistol I carry concealed, legally since 1994.
I've been to the range when Tommy Tactical and his five buddies show up, and make a point of trying to impress everyone with the expensive gear they are hauling. I find that sometimes I can outshoot them with my bolt action iron sighted carbine. Sometimes they ARE what they look like, and really can shoot. Others are just having fun. Whoopee. As long as they are SAFE about it, I don't care how they dress - just BE dressed...some of them would look quite bad in the nude...*shudder*...
I had an egregious safety violation in front of me when I was working at Jensen's West indoor range, by an FBI agent in a suit. I threw him off the range.
As for alcohol and shooting, I agree that the two do NOT mix, even though others disagree. It's the same as booze and cars, two absolutely legal products that should not be mixed together, no matter how well the person "can handle it". That's my opinion, and the opinion of many professionals who carry guns for a living. I would never pack a few "cold ones' on a hunt, unless we're talking sodas. Too heavy for this fat old man to haul around.
To reiterate and agree with the others, I don't care how you look, how you dress, just how safe you are. If you are unsafe, I will leave. Period.
I wear BDU pants sometimes - very comfortable, and the extra pockets come in handy. I wear Blackhack boots, lightweight, comfortable, good for shopping or hunting, and I hate buying lots of shoes/boots - I leave that to my wife. I also wear big t-shirts in summer time, better to hide the full size pistol I carry concealed, legally since 1994.
I've been to the range when Tommy Tactical and his five buddies show up, and make a point of trying to impress everyone with the expensive gear they are hauling. I find that sometimes I can outshoot them with my bolt action iron sighted carbine. Sometimes they ARE what they look like, and really can shoot. Others are just having fun. Whoopee. As long as they are SAFE about it, I don't care how they dress - just BE dressed...some of them would look quite bad in the nude...*shudder*...
I had an egregious safety violation in front of me when I was working at Jensen's West indoor range, by an FBI agent in a suit. I threw him off the range.
As for alcohol and shooting, I agree that the two do NOT mix, even though others disagree. It's the same as booze and cars, two absolutely legal products that should not be mixed together, no matter how well the person "can handle it". That's my opinion, and the opinion of many professionals who carry guns for a living. I would never pack a few "cold ones' on a hunt, unless we're talking sodas. Too heavy for this fat old man to haul around.
To reiterate and agree with the others, I don't care how you look, how you dress, just how safe you are. If you are unsafe, I will leave. Period.
Last edited:
For the most part, unless the individual is blatantly violating safety rules I try my absolute best to just let people alone.
I have no real control over how people think and what they do, I'll step in if necessary or offer advice/opinion (If asked of course) to the person(s) in question.
Getting riled up over the foolishness does get to me at times, but I find that due to the lack of control over their actions, it's best to try and represent the real side of the firearms community.
That the vast majority are average joes/janes, are law abiding citizens like most other folks, and just so happen to enjoy a sport that requires supreme amounts of respect (for the dangers involved) and the amount of discipline and focus required to become/remain proficient at.
However, I do agree that some of the more....off the rocker types would tone things done and get a clue some times.
I have no real control over how people think and what they do, I'll step in if necessary or offer advice/opinion (If asked of course) to the person(s) in question.
Getting riled up over the foolishness does get to me at times, but I find that due to the lack of control over their actions, it's best to try and represent the real side of the firearms community.
That the vast majority are average joes/janes, are law abiding citizens like most other folks, and just so happen to enjoy a sport that requires supreme amounts of respect (for the dangers involved) and the amount of discipline and focus required to become/remain proficient at.
However, I do agree that some of the more....off the rocker types would tone things done and get a clue some times.
We can't purge the ranks but we can be conscious of our own behavior and the behavior of those we are shooting with.
New shooters, nervous first-timers and fence-sitters are also at the range when groups of goofy young men decide to mag dump their AR's.
People who don't have an opinion on guns ride their bikes past acres of national forest that have been trashed by shooters.
Carrying an AR into restaurant - perfectly legal in many places but does nothing for our cause.
Use your heads and be ambassadors. Convince the undecided.
New shooters, nervous first-timers and fence-sitters are also at the range when groups of goofy young men decide to mag dump their AR's.
People who don't have an opinion on guns ride their bikes past acres of national forest that have been trashed by shooters.
Carrying an AR into restaurant - perfectly legal in many places but does nothing for our cause.
Use your heads and be ambassadors. Convince the undecided.
Last edited by a moderator:
Pond James Pond
New member
As much as some people annoy me (the proportion seems to grow with every year!! 
Curmudgeon status on the rise?), I don't think they should be banned or prohibited from shooting, and sometimes people are just plain stupid. As they say, you can't fix stupid.
I think what is needed is education. Pointing out that careless or selfish use of public land will only serve to get it closed off, gentle reminders that toning it down a bit at times may make non-shooters feel a bit more relaxed.
Some people will be receptive, some not. That much is inevitable.
Curmudgeon status on the rise?), I don't think they should be banned or prohibited from shooting, and sometimes people are just plain stupid. As they say, you can't fix stupid.I think what is needed is education. Pointing out that careless or selfish use of public land will only serve to get it closed off, gentle reminders that toning it down a bit at times may make non-shooters feel a bit more relaxed.
Some people will be receptive, some not. That much is inevitable.